Called someone a twat in the Brexit thread last night.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Called someone a twat in the Brexit thread last night.
Totally agree, but McDonnell and Corbyn are old-school far left anti-EU, so they'll twist and turn to avoid that as much as they can. It will be an interesting conference, the activists, the leadership, the MPs and the simple Labour voters all seem to want different things. Fudge anyone?
Seeing as he is often the only dissenting voice against the Corbyn fan club, I think this is hardly fair.
He's not on a WUM, he genuinely believes that Corbyn is a cnut, and that puts him high up in my estimation, for one.
People keep saying this but it isn't really true. Look at this page alone and you'll see the number of people (rightfully) criticising Labour's fairly daft approach to Brexit, for example. I don't necessarily agree with banning Oscie but he tended not to have any interest in actual debate for the most part and regularly ignored counter-arguments that didn't suit his own.
Not good...not good.
It was in response to being told to feck off by another poster.
Again, the only reason Palestine is so regularly talked about is to defend the anti-semitism smear.
I couldn’t be more delighted if we stopped jizzing money into defence and kept out of the Middle East.
If the upside is an increase in helpful public spending, and our lives, health service, education and cultural output increased I’d be more than happy.
Are any of your replies in this thread on topic?
McDonnell joins McClusky in the 'go feck yourself' club..
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-referendum-should-not-include-remain-option
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-referendum-should-not-include-remain-option
Outrageous. I just don't see a way out of this now. Nobody in Labour is willing to challenge JC and his supporters.
If there was ever any doubt as to how the leadership viewed Brexit and the EU...
Twats.
Twats.
BOB - Bring Oscie Back
Labour are looking closely at the Brexit situation and guess what. They are seeing exactly the same dilemma as May and are just as fecked as her with regards to the solution.
The irony here is that a lot of Momentum are cast iron Remain supporters. They are going to feel seriously betrayed by this too.
Never mind Momentum, it's pretty much the same here on the Caf. The majority, in the CE forum at least, are Corbyn and McDonnell fans, yet also Remainers. It's normal for people not to agree with absolutely everything their leaders stand for, admirable even, it's just the lack of acknowledgement that grates with me.
Bit harsh that.
It's time for them to take a clear stand on the Remain side. The country is deeply divided sure, but its made so much worse by one side not having a credible party fighting for what they believe in. The Labour membership polled hugely in favour of Remain this week, and this stuff the likes of McDonnell and McClusky keep spouting is at odds with the groundswell opinions of the party. If they continue to try and hedge like this, they'll weaken their position, and risk the very people they need to turn out for them in an election just not bothering.
It is a 4D chess match though.
Being played by two incompetent draughts players.
A vote on the deal itself is just silly. Considering it's either accepting that deal or crashing out completely it's an idiotic waste of time.
History will favour the side that puts the country before party and power - regardless of any short-term pain.
The real problem here is that the politicians we have in the party (this is the same for a lot of parties) aren't interested in whats best for the nation, ahead of what's best for them. A pro-remain candidate with left leaning tendancies would beat JC to the Labour party leadership, but anyone who's seriously intent on being PM won't go for it now.
1. There is no guaruntee that momentum will split and they'll get the lions share of supporters.
2. There are probably quite a few Blairites who'd throw their hat into the ring to make sure they're counted, which would make the election a closer fought thing.
3. Once in power you're obliged to challenge the Maybot for a second referendum, which she won't do, so it'll be a challenge for an election. You can't be sure the Tories would rebel at this point, they're waiting for May to be the Brexit fall guy and then stab her in the back. This makes you the Labour leader who failed to deliver a second referendum.
4. There is a strong cross party appetite for leave - there is no guarantee that a new labour leader would beat the Maybot, especially with a divided party. The media particularly are pro Tory, the electorate don't know enough about you.
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I just think they're looking for a better time. Post Brexit you can blame the Tories for Brexit, you can blame JC for failing to stop it, and you have the pinch of economic crisis setting in to make the electorate look for an alternative.
As a career politician, why take a risk now, when it's easier in 18-24 months time.
1. There is no guaruntee that momentum will split and they'll get the lions share of supporters.
2. There are probably quite a few Blairites who'd throw their hat into the ring to make sure they're counted, which would make the election a closer fought thing.
3. Once in power you're obliged to challenge the Maybot for a second referendum, which she won't do, so it'll be a challenge for an election. You can't be sure the Tories would rebel at this point, they're waiting for May to be the Brexit fall guy and then stab her in the back. This makes you the Labour leader who failed to deliver a second referendum.
4. There is a strong cross party appetite for leave - there is no guarantee that a new labour leader would beat the Maybot, especially with a divided party. The media particularly are pro Tory, the electorate don't know enough about you.
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I just think they're looking for a better time. Post Brexit you can blame the Tories for Brexit, you can blame JC for failing to stop it, and you have the pinch of economic crisis setting in to make the electorate look for an alternative.
As a career politician, why take a risk now, when it's easier in 18-24 months time.
Still waiting for one of them to actually do that.
Keeping your options open = Indecisive. Corbyn might be principled but I have really not seen much in the way of leadership from him on Brexit. That fudge looks very much like what you would expect from decision by committee.
I'll defend him when what he says is worth defending, like the importance of liberal values, and criticise him when what he says isn't.
At the people defending Blair.
Oh god it's like being lectured to by a sociology lecturer from a former polytechnic who thinks he is up there with Brian Cox or Simon Schama when in reality his schtick is just to point out that no-one else understands the subtleties of the argument as much as he does...not at all irritating!
Can Corbyn, McDonnell and Len McCluskey please just go and Circle jerk together to 1930's propaganda films and leave someone else to try and actually form an opposition.
You might want to watch the video first mate. And yeah it seems Brian is a bit thick when it comes to politics
Starmer tells the Labour conference today that "nobody is ruling out Remain as an option." Like McDonnell saying that's exactly what he wants to do the very day before. And you can bet McDonnell makes sure he's in agreement with Corbyn beforehand.
I think that every time I read a post with 'nuanced' in it. Don't go in the Racism thread whatever you do, no opinion can be wrong in there because it's so very nuanced, don't you see.
I think that every time I read a post with 'nuanced' in it. Don't go in the Racism thread whatever you do, no opinion can be wrong in there because it's so very nuanced, don't you see.Of course, he's being dishonest about when he cut ties with Press TV - the election time clampdown on the opposition happened in the summer of 2009, he made plenty of appearances after. And I've yet to come across a single clip of him on Press TV discussing human rights in Iran.
Seriously, why can't he just say he was wrong?
because he clearly doesn't believe that he did anything wrong. He also seem to know, that being entirely honest would make him look so bad, that he feels the need to massage the truth. His attempt of spinning it towards "confronting Iran on the grounds of human-rights" is hilarious.
What he should be doing there is saying that, in hindsight, he regrets it, and then go on to say whatever line he has about his raising human rights issues or whatever else. He should be portraying himself as someone who made a mistake whilst trying to do the right thing, instead he looks like someone who is making excuses for something he always knew was wrong.
Did anyone watch the conference speech? I've only seen highlights, but it seems to have gone down pretty well with individual journos saying it's his best speech yet and piles plenty of pressure on May.
Did anyone watch the conference speech? I've only seen highlights, but it seems to have gone down pretty well with individual journos saying it's his best speech yet and piles plenty of pressure on May.
Hobbers I've had the misfortune of reading your posts and if I was you I wouldn't go around calling others simply minded.
I think Corbyn is a genuinely nice man who cares about people, but who isn't blind to the failings of 'his own'. I think I agree with him on not using a nuclear weapon - what I don't agree with is him telling everyone. Let's be honest, as a defence it would be futile even if we took out several million with us. As a deterrent it might work.
He's a politician like any other. I pity the people that hold politicians up to some sort of high standard to the point it becomes a cult of personality.
They will be disappointed.
They will be disappointed.
Indeed. That’s some archetypal reptilian shapeshifting in the interview above.
There was a report on BBC4 from the Labour conference yesterday (evil MSM I know #wearehismedia), they described the mood among the attendees as them believing they are spearheading a global recalibration of the capitalist system.
It seems they are high minded ideologues when we desperately need a practical and pragmatic approach at this difficult time. I see no solace anywhere on the political spectrum currently.