Don't necessarily agree but just goes to show how fecked the party is.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Mason does mention an important point. Soft Brexit is no longer possible, so there's no point fighting for it. Labour have to chose a side and live with it.
Really?
I genuinely don't understand this rhetoric.
An ill-informed, lied-to population took part in a vote, with questionable campaigning and funding laws broken, and came to a conclusion, separated by a swing of 2%.
With more idea of what Brexit means, after 3 years of political wrangling, and aware of the misdeeds in how it was originally sold, do you not think the result would be more indicative of how the populace really feel?
Or, is it just a case of, "We won! No jinx. No comebacks. Nar! Nar! Nar! Not listening now!"
The remainers lied just as much throughout the campaign. Some of them remainers are also very violent in voicing their opinion calling anyone who doesn't agree with them a bigot and worse thus coercing other people into voting remain.
Then there's the case of the SJW's who oppose brexit. Who wants to be on their side anyway apart from London?
If it weren't for the London vote, we would be talking about a landslide victory for Brexit in that referendum.
If we ignore bits where most people leave, yeah, Brexit wins double.
You've been spending too much time on Reddit.
You're doing a "defined by the company you keep" accusation (against a vague concept) while supporting the side which stabbed an MP.
You haven't made any kind of case against a second referendum, in this reply. In fact, the highlighted part would suggest you agree that the first one is flawed.
Do you have anything else, other than 'because'?
The decision making of the electorate was manipulated in a deceitful way by both sides which will happen again in any election and during this 2nd referendum if it were to happen.
Politicians lie, a politician's career is based on making your lies as convincing as possible and your ability to nullify any damage to your credibility when you are found out.
Both the conservatives and the labour party have been elected countless times on lies and have done completely the opposite of what they promise after re-election but yet before this brexit situation developed, the electorate kept voting them in.
The UK should use this opportunity to unite, whatever the result and defeat the status quo. So far, the government is failing the country big time and the electorate needs to focus on getting people in power that whatever the outcome, brexit or no brexit are able to actually lead the country forward
and not this referendum nonsense.
One thing is certain, if the brexit decision would be reversed, the UK's negotiating position will be much weaker in the EU than it was before the original decision to leave was taken.
It's not possible without a GE but with one (and an extension) it is.
Seems like what Corbyn is angling at given interviews today. Full support for a confirmatory referendum (which they've already voted for) but if it ends up being a GE Labour will still be a soft brexit party.
If i were them I'd run the GE based on a soft brexit policy subject to another in/out referendum prior to negotiations to check the will of the people. Not sure how popular it would really be but seems to be the logical position for Labours base.
Only one side broke the law.
Politicians lying is not news. What did make the news was £350m for the NHS per week.
A lie which everyone tried to distance themselves from after.
Also, there was no thought or preparation made for any kind of deal.
If some leavers knew that by leaving we'd lose benefits but still have to commit to freedom of movement, they may have said "No way then!"
As for uniting the country, that will never happen now.
Cameron's last ditch attempt to win an election, by promising a referendum, introduced a rift that will remain for decades.
As for the last part. I don't see how our position in Europe would be weakened, when we still have the same number of votes.
feck sake.
Why yes if you take away everything about Brexit then the opposition party should be miles a head BUT brexit is pretty complex and effects different parts of the labour vote.
?
I not arguing that Labour did well last night.
You can make that argument for why the country shouldn't have another referendum. If less than 40% of the electorate turned out for EU elections then clearly the country isn't screaming to have another say on EU membership.
Yesterday results show what we already know there is a portion of the electorate that just votes brexit, this portion is too big to be completely ignored by both major parties but also small enough that they can well pretty much be ignored for 90% of the time.
They are never going to get into power so its pointless.
I get not voting Labour leader was some war crinimal who goes around the world collecting pay checks(Em....I wonder who)but look with the current Left wing Labour Party you have the polices, the infrastructure, the party base etc and your going throw all this way because Corbyn has stalled on calling for a ''People Vote''(He literally call for one again today) ?
If you want a more left wing Britain then you have to suck it up and vote Labour. You may not like it but we've got about 11 years before the world turns into a Children Of Men. So just do it......................... please.
The only option other than Real Labour which we have now compared to Tory Lite which we had before are the Torries.
And they are the reason we are in a mess now.
And they are the reason we are in a mess now.
Neither are labour with Corbyn in charge.
I don't have to vote labour at all, you do understand that right?
I personally don't think he'd make a great leader of the country. And the constant calls for general elections in recent times is nauseating. Says you care about getting into power first, and Brexit second. The people it affects, third.
Hes just not the person I'd be comfortable voting into power. I'm not going vote conservative, so I'll just have to go elsewhere and face the consequence.
It's also a obnoxious myth. As in - it's not happening and will not happen.
I agree but I thought it was worth a try since this person was voting Green.
Turns out all it takes to not vote for potentially radical left government is feeling a bit uncomfortable with Corbyn. Next up why the left shouldn't vote for Bernie Sanders because he is against open borders.
Christ it's like deal with a bunch of children.
He's never led anything before becoming Labour leader. He's a life long rebel. He be a disaster for UK.
Is Jeremy Corbyns labour what's best for this country going forward?
I think large parts of Europe and North America will be ok. And that's about it.
The competence of the leader is totally a reason to vote for or against them. The thing I never get from you is the possibility that Corbyn just might be the problem for a lot of people. If you ditched him you would massively improve your chance of getting in. Doesn't that matter more that one individual?
Best out of 3?
Are people not allowed to change their minds, now that they know a lot more about the realities of a hard Brexit? It seems to me that many of the people who oppose a 2nd referendum are scared of the truth being exposed ... namely that a majority of people now don't want to exit from the EU.
And some of the people opposed to 2nd referendum are using veiled threats of neo-fascist violence - coupled with talk of "treason" - in their attempts to stop another referendum. These are the people who are the real threats to democracy.
Nigel Farage has said he would, “don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines” if a Brexit is not delivered to his satisfaction.
Exactly. It's incitement, and would be stamped out if it came from a left-wing popular movement.
we don't have a disaster now?
Real Labour that will help save the Welfare State. So Yes.
Not that I don't think Campbell's a cnut, mind, but not exactly the PR the party should be going for right now when it's their own fault they got thumped.
I have yet to hear a convincing argument against a second referendum.
The attitude of leavers seems to solely revolve around them "winning", as though it was an inconsequential talent show vote.
You genuinely think Campbell VOTING for another party and then repeatedly saying so and Corbyn congratulating someone is the same thing? Like, seriously?
It's pretty fecking hilarious watching the very people who've screamed loudest about entryist plots for years, suddenly having no issue with people who support other parties remaining in Labour.
People don't automatically owe Labour their vote. You have to convince them. This is an arrogance that's existed in both wings of the party and especially in Scotland - as if by virtue of simply being the Labour Party left-wing people are obliged to vote for them, irrespective of the leadership in question or the policies being promoted. Being annoyed with people because they decide they won't automatically accept whatever Corbyn says or does won't work.
To some people Brexit is something that's inherently going to damage the working people of Britain by inflicting misery and pain on them if we opt for a No Deal. Until now Corbyn has been largely silent on this process. Until now we were told that was due to pragmatism and opportunism but now Labour still aren't winning anything it's clear that strategy was a bit of a dud. And yes, there are significant portions of Labour heartlands that support Brexit, but ultimately the majority of the party's voters support remaining in the EU and they have viable alternatives to opt for if Labour don't represent them. Again there's an arrogance here wherein Labour expect the majority of their voters to just suck it up and vote for them no matter what even if their most significant issues aren't addressed. And the reason some of those Labour heartlands are arguably supporting Brexit is because as leader Corbyn hasn't attempted to change or shift the narrative in the same way he (quite successfully) did with austerity. A leader who was brought in to argue for radical change has basically pretended the countries most important issue doesn't exist and has done nothing to impose his own viewpoint on it. A capable political leader should be trying to shape arguments in that regard.
Just as you're saying we won't see a left-wing government without people voting Labour, a substantial number of people just don't regard it as possible to achieve one when Corbyn is in charge. He's lost any goodwill he ever had over Brexit, he's historically unpopular for an opposition leader to the point where even now May often still outranks him, and he's remarkably prone to PR gaffes. He's spent the vast majority of his tenure behind in the polls and the strategy that was supposed to help him in the long-term (being silent on Brexit) is being exposed as a sham. What route to power does he have now other than being able to luck out on the system with 30% of the vote (being optimistic) in a GE if the Tories/Brexit Party both finish on a similar tally?
Plenty of Labour leftists voted Green before Corbyn came into power, but most Labour leftists would've been happy to see them involved in the party because they shared similar views. I'm struggling to see how it's different - if Corbyn's a Labour MP/member and is expected to commit to that party, why he is congratulating a verifiable lunatic for winning another seat?
Labour don't have the numbers to be operating purges right now, they need to be winning back people who defected in the EU elections if they ever hope to win a GE. Campbell is an utter cnut but there is far more to expel him for than not voting Labour is an election where Labour's approach was beyond embarrassing.
And swathes of them were kicked out for publically supporting Green Party policies by sharing their posts on social media. I don't remember Campbell and the moderates having much to say about those.
I think so.
The UK ranks number 1 in Europe in inequality. It desperately needs at the very least basic social democracy - NHS Funding, Living Wage, Strong Union Rights, Nationalisation of some industry,free tuterion etc. All of this would instantly improve the country.
I've been stuck many a times in line at the job centre seeing people next to me in tears and hyperventilating due to fear that their disability benefits will be taken away or seeing people who have been failed by the state so badly that they can't read or write, not to forget sheer level of dehumanisation that happens at these places. Just ending the use of food banks would vastly improve the lives of millions.
But if this was all there was to the current Labour program, a harp back to old Attlee government then I wouldn't care too much if left leaning people went off and voted for parties like the Greens but its not. Within the current Labour Party there is the potential to go beyond this basic social democracy I mentioned.
- 4 Day Working Week
- Green New Deal
- Ending Immigration Detention Centres
- 10% Of Company Shares Going To Workers
- Preston Model
- Anti Imperialist Foreign Policy
But I know the only way to achieve the aims I listed above or any polices green voters want is through organising and mobilising the british workforce. It really is the only option we have, there can be no radical change in Britain without a workers movement.
The Labour Party for all it's faults(And there's plenty)it is the tool to which the british workforce have historical organising and mobilised itself to change Britain.
I mean you're proving my point here - by kicking out Green voters Campbell and the moderates proved how out of touch they were with a lot of the party base and they were swiftly booted out of power.
No that wasn't Campbell, that was the previous administration involved in compliance whilst Corbyn was leader. The one that the moderates were very sad to see go. Did I miss Campbell and co's passionate defence of those people and how kicking them out was appalling? Because they seem very passionate about it today.
Watson was obviously too busy taking members to court to stop them voting for the candidate he didn't want to win, so he couldn't be reached for comment.
No, of course not. Because they're power-hungry hypocrites. I don't deny that. I dislike the Blairite wing of the party a lot more than the Corbynite wing. But if your line of defence for Corbyn is that the others are bigger cnuts then that's not much of a defence.
No, my "line of defence" is that the exact same rules that lead to people being kicked out before are now applying to Campbell. He didn't give a toss then, certainly not to a point where he called for them to be changed, so I'm seriously struggling to care now.