In 2010 the Lib Dems stood on a very straight forward position advocating cutting tuition fees. When they got into government they trebled them. If you succeed in putting the Lib Dems in office again I look forward to treble Brexit.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In 2010 the Lib Dems stood on a very straight forward position advocating cutting tuition fees. When they got into government they trebled them. If you succeed in putting the Lib Dems in office again I look forward to treble Brexit.
It's fairly likely that they'll go into coalition with the Tories in return for a 2nd referendum and we'll end up with remain vs a tory deal or no deal referendum. Which is exactly what Labour would be offering, except with remain vs Labour deal and with a government that doesn't actively try to feck over the poor and disabled by gutting public services.
I'm really not. I believe we are fundamentally in coalition type parliaments now and as someone else said in this thread, the very best way for remainers to influence this debate is to have a remain party speaking for them. Not a differently flavoured Brexit party.
And Labour helped start the Iraq war. Plenty of shit to go around if you want to play that game. Or we can focus on the here and now.
I'd be happy if they went into coalition with Labour actually. They would be the moderating voice that party needs and they would keep Labour honest on Brexit. I would vote for that outcome.
The only point you ever prove, endlessly, is your inability to think for yourself.
Might want to tell Swinson this
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-lib-dem-pact-with-labour-under-jeremy-corbyn
Then you'd end up with exactly what Labour are already promising which is a remain vs Labour deal referendum. Which is probably because Labour already are the moderating voice in all of this, with the Greens/Lib Dems, and Tories/BRX party being on the 2 extreme ends of the debate.
The idea that someone thinks Lib Dems will keep anyone honest on anything in coalition is amusing though so thanks for the laugh.
I was talking about the insults.
Unless Labour change their stance why would a remainer vote for them other than party blindness. They could get remain or they could get Brexit. Any form of Brexit will be a disaster for the UK and especially the poor.
That's without the absurdity that Labour leaders think they can get a different deal especially the one being proposed by Corbyn.
I wonder what libs / snp might demand as a price for formaing a coalition - im guessing politically a lot more than the DUP who were brought off with cash.
Revoke and referendum on full PR and independence?
They're not going coalition with the Tories. Firstly it killed them as a party for years last time. Secondly they only did it last time because Labour had been in power for 16 years, were extremely unpopular, and were not the biggest party in the election. Why would the Lib Dems prop up a party that's been in office for 9 years and that is wildly hated?
they need a compromise PM... somebody who straddles both parties policies...
On a serious note Im not sure any coalition (libs lab, libs snp lab, libs con, libs DUP cons) could agree a brexit policy
There is no option to vote for in a GE that doesn't end up with Brexit as a possibility. The lib Dems are offering a 2nd ref just like labour.
If it gets them power they'd do it.
I don't think voting lib dem under the assumption that they'd not go into coalition with the Tories is wise.
No but they'd be campaigning for Remain and not try to pretend there's a possible alternative WA.
Yeah any coalition talks are going to million more difficult than the last time and piss off a whole group of voters.
Really anything other than one party wining a majority is going to be a shit show.
Because they are offering a second referendum and are the only party who can stop the tories. Unless its tactical voting(E.g. More chance of a lib dem winning in a tory seat than a labour candidate)Remain people should be voting labour.
Corbyn doesn’t want to stop Brexit. A vote for Labour just tells him that people support his position. The Lib Dems can stop the Tories too, they just need to deny the Tories a majority. If the Tories can’t form a government then the others are going to have to, whether that’s with a different PM than Corbyn or not.
TBF the only party I can see winning a majority is the conservatives on the basis that if they agree a pact with Brexit party they become the only real leave option and they turn the election into essentially a referendum on hard brexit... even if 40% of people go for that and the other votes are split between the parties i think that in first past the post they get a majority... even then its going to need to be a decent majority to overcome their own internal arguments plus even if they do that I still think its going to be a shit show as a hard brexit that more than half of the people have not voted for is going to at best controversial
Remain people would surely vote Labour if Labour would stop this nonsense about an alternative WA and condemned any form of Brexit. Yes I know Corbyn is frightened of losing the leave part of his voters but trying to please both you please no-one.
You could vote Lib Dem and we still get Brexit. Whether someone votes Lib Dem or Labour, there would be a second referendum. I am a remainer and if we do have a second referendum, I would vote remain again. Having said that, in a GE I would vote Labour because they have quite a comprehensive policy platform outside of Brexit that I happen to agree with... whereas, do the Lib Dems actually have any other policies?
Also, it's pretty untrue that any form of Brexit would be a disaster for the UK and especially the poor. Even though I would much prefer to remain, Labour would still invest significantly whether there is a soft Brexit or no Brexit. I am talking large investment in house building, infrastructure, green energy, education, public services. That would go ahead regardless.
In my opinion, the poor people in this country would be significantly better off under a Labour Government with a soft Brexit, than a Lib Dem Government with no Brexit at all.
I get what you're saying but the only soft Brexit is staying in the CU and SM, not the current imaginary à la carte Brexit of Labour.
Would the other policies of Labour be possible if significant damage to the economy was done , whoever was in government, Tory, Labour, LibDems or the Brexit Party would be too busy trying to rescue the economy to worry about much else and where does the money come from?. You can see how Brexit has dominated parliament for over three years and the UK haven't left yet.
Yeah you can keep thinking this but the party is offering another referendum.
Yeah its impossible to know what will happen onsidering the last one but a lot will depend on
1)The Brexit Party and its voters. I'm still not sure they will even run in the next election.
2)What will the election be about. Its very hard giving the constant news stream and just the nature of a general election that even something like Brexit will be constantly in the news. I image it will be a lot more than last time considering a likely election will take place in September but I don't think its going to dominate as much as some think.
The fact is the party is offering another referendum. The anger seem to be that Corbyn isn't culturally pro remain - e.g. this
A soft Brexit would slow down the economy... but almost certainly still less than the financial crash did in 2008. At that time the Government made an ideological choice to impose austerity. They didn't have to and it actually strangled growth and caused a slower recovery than we might have otherwise had.
With a soft Brexit, the Government would equally have a choice on whether they continue any plans to significantly invest or they can carry on imposing austerity. Given what we have been through since 2008, you'd have to be pretty stupid to go with the latter.
As I say, I would still prefer to remain... but I don't agree that a soft Brexit would be some sort of disaster if the Government is willing to invest.
I agree with what you say but it's a question of the definition of a soft brexit.
Remaining in the CU and SM will not damage the economy so much but it's all rather pointless as all it means is the Uk lose their influence and power.
The problem is Labour is not offering a real soft Brexit.
A referendum with what as the choices?
Remain
No deal
Labour's impossible WA modification.
No, the anger is that Labour leadership have had to be dragged kicking and screaming every step of the way towards something they clearly don’t believe in and don’t want.
At first it was ‘Enact Article 50 immediately!’, then ‘No we don’t want a referendum’ then ‘Remain shouldn’t be an option on a new referendum’ then ‘maybe a referendum if every other option doesn’t pan out’ then ‘ok a referendum but we won’t say whether we’d support Remain’ then ‘ok we’d support Remain but only against a Tory deal’.
But apparently Remainers should be flocking in their droves to support this party? Give me a break.
I think a lot of the anger goes all the way back to the original referendum and Corbyn's half arsed efforts in the lead up to it.
His lack of any coherent/consistent stance on Brexit after the referendum was lost is also annoying but that's actually kind of insignificant in comparison to the damage he has already done. I honestly think that the sort of dereliction of duty - on such a crucial issue for his electorate - is something he can never be forgiven for. I've spent a bit of time recently hanging out with Labour voting British friends and they're all fecking livid with Corbyn for exactly that reason.
He is not and never was a Leader. He completely lacks leadership qualities and of course never wanted to lead the party in the first place.
He is just a puppet for the left and does what he is told.
The longer he is in place the lower the chance of Labour winning an election. And I say this as a life long Labour voter. When highly experienced people like Alistair Campbell are of the same opinion, it shows they are destined for oblivion.
If your not a child who demands that everyone around you should be made to cater for your every need then yes labour is the party to support(I'm a socialist, do you think I'm happy with the Labour pledge to increase police numbers or their support of the nordic model for sex workers. ).
Also funny how labour struggling with its brexit stance(Due to it having leave voters)although in the end offering what it's remain base wants, is just too much for you to handle, its' simply the final straw. Yet your more than willingly to see past 5 years of helping the tories kill the poorest members of this country to vote for a party thats offering the same thing.
No, I just refuse to follow any party blindly through thick and thin. All that does is tells them they are following the right path. There are alternatives for voters and unless Labour come to terms with that they’ll never win another election.
No one is saying you have to follow that party through thick and thin.
I get it, the EU means something culturally to you and that (Whatever it is) isn't not being met by the current labour leader. Whatever I guess but its just odd you don't apply the same standard to the party your going to vote for.
But something something I'm a independent thinker something something.
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Good points. Well made.
It is why the Labour Party is fecked I will grant you that.
I live in the EU. This isn’t some question of what I feel like culturally (although I have strong feelings about that too), it’s a practical issue of day to day life, my job and career, my home and much more. Many of us over here have spent 3 years not knowing what our futures hold and having the UK government not showing a single iota of interest or care about us. So no, I won’t support an opposition party that have to be put in a headlock before they’ll even show a glimmer of interest in protecting my needs.
No they are not. The Lib Dems in power would scrap Brexit. That’s their manifesto and starting position. They would probably compromise with a 2nd ref as a minority partner, which is something different.
Labour’s starting position is to pursue a Brexit just a different one from the Tory one. They would compromise with a referendum only if they couldn’t get their Brexit through parliament or if they needed libs as minority partner to form a government.
To suggest the positions are the same is disingenuous at best, idiotic at worst.
For Remainers above party politics it seems the best possible outcome is a strong Lib performance in a GE that gives them the role of kingmaker and thus actually forcing a 2nd ref.
Firstly, your a english guy living in Europe, your are not a refugee for feck sake. And secondly if you want to do this moral game, its best not to try and use it for justifying a vote for the Lib Dems.
The green party is pro remain/stop brexit party and doesn't have a tory as a leader.
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Well, thank goodness neither do the Lib Dems. Unless you're really unaware of what the Tories are (hint: the clue is in the proper name of the party, the Conservative party).
And yes, if the Lib Dem position was a obfuscated as Labour's pro-Europeans would vote Greens. As is, Lib Dems are their best option.
You want to have a look at her voting record(Let alone her personal views).