Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Untied said:
I don't think Corbyn disagreed with him that promising to not use nuclear weapons undermines the nuclear deterrent? Although those in favour of a nuclear deterrent often shy away from its realities, I agree with Houghton, it only functions because we are continually threatening other countries with a retaliatory nuclear strike. That's what a nuclear deterrent is: A promise to kill hundreds of thousands in retaliation for killing hundreds of thousands.

What Corbyn was criticising is the army taking a political position. It's a difficult one. The head of the armed forces probably should be able to offer his own personal opinion on a nuclear deterrent, but he is in a role that should remain politically neutral (there are plenty of those: civil servants, local government officers, etc) and saying he would be worried if the leader of the opposition came into power, in his role as head of the armed forces, is not acceptable in a liberal democracy.
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Spot on.
 
Untied said:
I don't think Corbyn disagreed with him that promising to not use nuclear weapons undermines the nuclear deterrent? Although those in favour of a nuclear deterrent often shy away from its realities, I agree with Houghton, it only functions because we are continually threatening other countries with a retaliatory nuclear strike. That's what a nuclear deterrent is: A promise to kill hundreds of thousands in retaliation for killing hundreds of thousands.

What Corbyn was criticising is the army taking a political position. It's a difficult one. The head of the armed forces probably should be able to offer his own personal opinion on a nuclear deterrent, but he is in a role that should remain politically neutral (there are plenty of those: civil servants, local government officers, etc) and saying he would be worried if the leader of the opposition came into power, in his role as head of the armed forces, is not acceptable in a liberal democracy.
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I think Houghton was simply stating fact and by saying that refusing to launch nuclear weapons would seriously undermine Britain's deterrent was purely commonsense.
 
Marching said:
I think Houghton was simply stating fact and by saying that refusing to launch nuclear weapons would seriously undermine Britain's deterrent was purely commonsense.
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Yeah, and I agree with that. But I think the part Corbyn is complaining about is the comment that "it would be worrying if that were translated to power". The Head of the Armed forces really shouldn't be appearing on TV in that role and saying he would be worried if a particular political leader won an election.

I think Houghton was probably trying to choose his words carefully but he still messed up. He's 100% correct that if you have promised not to use the deterrent, you do not have a deterrent, and quite within his rights to say that. But he should have said something like: "In my personal opinion Britain should maintain an active nuclear deterrent, and that means we must be prepared to use it, but if the leader of the opposition were elected on that platform we would serve the wishes of the British public."
 
Marching said:
I think Houghton was simply stating fact and by saying that refusing to launch nuclear weapons would seriously undermine Britain's deterrent was purely commonsense.
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If only there was a way for him to express this opinion without going on national television.

I'd say its commonsense that the military shouldn't be actively trying to influence public opinion. Then again they've already threatened mass resignations if Corbyn was democratically elected so that tells you everything about who they serve.
 
If we had any soldiers left after the cuts, I'd be fearing a coup if Corbyn takes power; as it stands, Jeremy would have to be arrested by Corporal Pike and his mum.
 
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Untied said:
I don't think Corbyn disagreed with him that promising to not use nuclear weapons undermines the nuclear deterrent? Although those in favour of a nuclear deterrent often shy away from its realities, I agree with Houghton, it only functions because we are continually threatening other countries with a retaliatory nuclear strike. That's what a nuclear deterrent is: A promise to kill hundreds of thousands in retaliation for killing hundreds of thousands.

What Corbyn was criticising is the army taking a political position. It's a difficult one. The head of the armed forces probably should be able to offer his own personal opinion on a nuclear deterrent, but he is in a role that should remain politically neutral (there are plenty of those: civil servants, local government officers, etc) and saying he would be worried if the leader of the opposition came into power, in his role as head of the armed forces, is not acceptable in a liberal democracy.
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Spot on.
 
Remembrance Sunday: Jeremy Corbyn ‘skipped VIP lunch’ to stay behind after ceremony and applaud WWII veterans
The Labour leader was photographed speaking to veterans during their march

After Jeremy Corbyn was widely criticised for apparently not bowing properly when laying his wreath at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday, pictures have emerged of the Labour leader quietly paying his respects to WWII veterans after the event while other politicians were allegedly at a “VIP lunch”.

Pictures have emerged on Twitter of Mr Corbyn stood next to the railings applauding as the veterans marched past after the ceremony at the Cenotaph.

Tim Brown, an Ashfield Labour Cabinet member, tweeted a picture of Mr Corbyn with a number of veterans after the service, claiming: “Jeremy Corbyn went up to Horseguards to meet/talk with WW2 veterans while the other politicians went for VIP lunch”.

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(The Independent)
 
lynchie said:
Typical commie Corbyn, carrying around a metal fence to keep himself separate from the veterans.
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That'll be the class barrier he and his gulag-praising comrades are always banging on about.
 
SteveJ said:
Ah well. Obviously it's become fashionable to lie, hence the manufactured outrage over Commie Corbyn.
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I heard Cameron and George went down to the soup kitchen to throw monopoly money at the poor rather than stay behind with the veterans. Outrageous
 
SteveJ said:
If we had any soldiers left after the cuts, I'd be fearing a coup if Corbyn takes power; as it stands, Jeremy would have to be arrested by Corporal Pike and his mum.
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You mean Corbyn's defence cuts, surely? Given that he has little intention of ever deploying forces overseas, the number of units likely to be disbanded would run into the scores. I doubt that we'd see McDonnell shedding any crocodile tears over those job losses though.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
You mean Corbyn's defence cuts, surely? Given that he has little intention of ever deploying forces overseas, the number of units likely to be disbanded would run into the scores. I doubt that we'd see McDonnell shedding any crocodile tears over those job losses though.
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Well, seeing as how Unelectable Corbyn™ isn't in power and apparently has no chance of ever being in power, he can pretty much promise anything...rather like the Conservatives regularly do in their election manifesto.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
You mean Corbyn's defence cuts, surely? Given that he has little intention of ever deploying forces overseas, the number of units likely to be disbanded would run into the scores. I doubt that we'd see McDonnell shedding any crocodile tears over those job losses though.
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I think part of the rationale the anti-trident people have is that they would spend more on conventional forces instead.
I'm not anti-trident personally, just pointing out your error.
 
bishblaize said:
Oh I dunno, The Sun has set a fairly high standard of shite over the years

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My old man was/is a staunch United fan, he literally won't say a thing against United or a thing in favour of Liverpool, he always bought the sun too....until this headline, he has never bought a copy since and won't even allow it into his house. This has nothing to do with Corbyn (although he does support him) I just thought it was interesting.
 
712 said:
I think part of the rationale the anti-trident people have is that they would spend more on conventional forces instead.
I'm not anti-trident personally, just pointing out your error.
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That is certainly one angle i've heard discussed by parties in Scotland recently, although Corbyn's statements allude more to the continuity of employment and transfer of skills (his opposition to civilian nuclear applications does present some limitations there). Even if the endgame is global nuclear disarmament, Britain's role in such an endeavour would be aided by continuing to have some chips on the table.

But this could well the last renewal of its kind, both politics and technology will have moved on greatly as we approach the mid-half of the 21st Century.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
That is certainly one angle i've heard discussed by parties in Scotland recently, although Corbyn's statements allude more to the continuity of employment and transfer of skills (his opposition to civilian nuclear applications does present some limitations there). Even if the endgame is global nuclear disarmament, Britain's role in such an endeavour would be aided by continuing to have some chips on the table.

But this could well the last renewal of its kind, both politics and technology will have moved on greatly as we approach the mid-half of the 21st Century.
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I think the party is now committed to the 2% spending target, though as is standard these days not sure if Corbyn's had any say there. And as you mentioned, he's said he can't imagine a scenario that would require their use.
 
I don't think much has changed @Untied .....crappy journo's rarely let the facts get in the way.
 
Marching said:
I don't think much has changed @Untied .....crappy journo's rarely let the facts get in the way.
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Yeah I'm sure you are right. It's just exacerbated by the fact that everything is spread across Twitter and Facebook so rapidly. And to be fair the quoted tweet is a BuzzFeed journalist actually doing his job.
 
Ubik said:
I think the party is now committed to the 2% spending target, though as is standard these days not sure if Corbyn's had any say there. And as you mentioned, he's said he can't imagine a scenario that would require their use.
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Is that indeed so? And whilst the present government has moved on somewhat from the muddle that was the 2011 SDSR, Osborne is allegedly planning some 'efficiencies' despite the 2% commitment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...Osborne-looks-to-make-efficiency-savings.html
 
It has surprised me how much of a facebook bombardment there has been for Corbyn. I don't support his wing of the party, but I must say he's had a galvanising effect on them. He's clearly a decent man though, I admit that.
 
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