Interesting that the best speech in favour of bombing seems to have come from a Labour man (Hilary Benn) while the best against came from a Tory (David Davis).
Actually I havent seen all the speeches so I cant say that with any certainty at all. But they were both very good speeches.
Hmmmm I think hilary Benn just secured the challenger spot yesterday
Very good speech
It was a coherent, fluid and oratorically powerfully summation of the best arguments in favour whilst acknowledging the doubts that exist. Beckett had a more forensic counter argument, Farron was more pure of emotion (those warmongering Lib Dems! Oh wait...), Jarvis was more tightly focused on the fascism and internationalism argument, but Benn's combined them all really well into a single piece. So no, it wasn't people just deciding to like it for the anti-Corbyn lol. Just like I'm sure the people not liking it today aren't doing so purely out of bitterness it showed up Corbyn's earlier mess.That honour goes to Margaret Beckett for me. Her speech was much more considered and sounded less like a daily mail article "FASCISTS".
Benn had been lined up as the opposition to Corbyn so it's no suprise the media and anti-corbyn crowd think it was the greatest political speech of our time. I'm sure they couldn't tell you why though.
I think as well it was obvious there was going to be increased focus on him... so credit to him for delivering under the extra pressureIt was a coherent, fluid and oratorically powerfully summation of the best arguments in favour whilst acknowledging the doubts that exist. Beckett had a more forensic counter argument, Farron was more pure of emotion (those warmongering Lib Dems! Oh wait...), Jarvis was more tightly focused on the fascism and internationalism argument, but Benn's combined them all really well into a single piece. So no, it wasn't people just deciding to like it for the anti-Corbyn lol. Just like I'm sure the people not liking it today aren't doing so purely out of bitterness it showed up Corbyn's earlier mess.
It was a coherent, fluid and oratorically powerfully summation of the best arguments in favour whilst acknowledging the doubts that exist. Beckett had a more forensic counter argument, Farron was more pure of emotion (those warmongering Lib Dems! Oh wait...), Jarvis was more tightly focused on the fascism and internationalism argument, but Benn's combined them all really well into a single piece. So no, it wasn't people just deciding to like it for the anti-Corbyn lol. Just like I'm sure the people not liking it today aren't doing so purely out of bitterness it showed up Corbyn's earlier mess.
"I personally don't think this has been a great day for democracy ... Hillary Benn substituted intense emotion and passion for rational discussion. I'm not a pacifist, I'm not a Corbynista, I'm strongly in favour of military action if one's convinced it's going to work"
"I'm amazed that David Cameron can come to the HoC, make many of the arguments he used for that disastrous intervention in Libya, and by gosh most of the HoC is willing to go with him on it. And I think they're bonkers."
If you don't think the media angle of highlighting that speech is because it draws a parallel to Corbyn (who was poor) then I believe that a bit naive.
I think you've used a lot of words there to state a simple truth, he used throw away phrases to summarise the argument. I'm not debating that it was a fine performance but it's not a great speech imo because it was very shallow.
Stella Creasey for instance claimed his speech convinced her to vote for the strikes. I genuinely find that disgraceful considering all the information available that she was convinced by a political performance.
If you don't think the media angle of highlighting that speech is because it draws a parallel to Corbyn (who was poor) then I believe that a bit naive.
I think you've used a lot of words there to state a simple truth, he used throw away phrases to summarise the argument. I'm not debating that it was a fine performance but it's not a great speech imo because it was very shallow.
Stella Creasey for instance claimed his speech convinced her to vote for the strikes. I genuinely find that disgraceful considering all the information available that she was convinced by a political performance.
I find it quite amazing how over a dozen Labour MPs were swayed by that one speech
as I say far more prudent of her to commend Benn... but personally Id like it if she just came out and said she did it to stop people trying to bully her as all of this de-selection business is pretty un-democratic and paints the Labour movement as inward facing and out of touch with reality - but far more prudent to praise bennNot sure that saying they're voting for military action in a foreign country to spite a few trolls is what we should be hoping for in our politicians.
Was brilliant, hell of a lot of pressure on him and it was flawless in delivery and tone.
By-election result later, I think it'll probably end up being a fairly comfortable win, just have to see how much UKIP has eaten away at support.
And I could call you bitter, it's easy to throw insults around.If you don't think the media angle of highlighting that speech is because it draws a parallel to Corbyn (who was poor) then I believe that a bit naive.
I think you've used a lot of words there to state a simple truth, he used throw away phrases to summarise the argument. I'm not debating that it was a fine performance but it's not a great speech imo because it was very shallow.
Stella Creasey for instance claimed his speech convinced her to vote for the strikes. I genuinely find that disgraceful considering all the information available that she was convinced by a political performance.
And I could call you bitter, it's easy to throw insults around.
If labour get a big reduction in their majority then alarm bells must start going offI don't see UKIP getting in Oldham and Royton West. There are large Bangladeshi and Pakistani communities in the area, those communities all vote and they all vote Labour.
It would be a stunning defeat if UKIP got in and a really grim moment for the town from my perspective. My home town becoming the second UKIP seat in Britain!
I can't see it happening but in the current climate, and in that ward, Corbyn's Labour should be increasing majority. McMahon is a good candidate too, previously very popular in the town.
The uncertainty over the result is pretty huge, some suggesting a comfortable hold, some suggesting less than a thousand votes in it. Not sure who's helped by the low turnout either.There is some talk on Twitter that the turnout in Oldham could be below 30%, it was just shy of 60% in May.
The uncertainty over the result is pretty huge, some suggesting a comfortable hold, some suggesting less than a thousand votes in it. Not sure who's helped by the low turnout either.
Labour I think... They were pushing the postal vote a lot and we're expected to have quite a lead from that so a low turnout should helpThe uncertainty over the result is pretty huge, some suggesting a comfortable hold, some suggesting less than a thousand votes in it. Not sure who's helped by the low turnout either.
Labour I think... They were pushing the postal vote a lot and we're expected to have quite a lead from that so a low turnout should help
1000 votes would be terrible though from the majority they had before
As if the cnuts were all teetering on the edge, "ooh, not sure whose speech I like the best".Quite a few MP's are saying it was Benn's speech that changed their mind. I'd love to know exactly what changed their mind "hes right these guys are fascist bad like Hitler, we should bomb them. Sod all the issues we've heard today. Fascists!"
He also attends Momentum meetings!I'm just discovering that his brother is a lunatic climate change denier. How did I not know this.
I'm quite surprised by the margin - but I still expect him to be gone within a year... May elections to come, trident maingate next year as well so I don't think its going to get any easier for him.Comfortable win in the by election with increased vote share.
Jeremy Corbyn has made his MPs targets for home-grown jihadists in the wake of the vote to back Syrian air strikes, a shadow cabinet minister has warned.
Not sure we can draw much from it apart from strengthening my opinion that the media seem to blind themselves with hysteria where Corbyn's Labour is concerned.
Spotted this in the news:
Good excuse to have a laugh at Dan Hodges if nothing else
(Not endorsing the view that Oldham proves Corbyn is popular or anything, just laughing at Hodges and his dedication to mental gymnastics.)
erm he is actually right
the majority traditionally refers to the amount of seats you win by (not proportion of the vote) - and even though labour increased their proportion of the vote it was overall a lower turnout and as such the majority reduced by about 4,000 (around 10,700 from 14,700 - figures from memory so probably some error - but it depends how you want to spin it but the majority is down with vote share up - I think most would call that a good result for Labour)
erm he is actually right
the majority traditionally refers to the amount of seats you win by (not proportion of the vote) - and even though labour increased their proportion of the vote it was overall a lower turnout and as such the majority reduced by about 4,000 (around 10,700 from 14,700 - figures from memory so probably some error - but it depends how you want to spin it but the majority is down with vote share up - I think most would call that a good result for Labour)
But this is whats possible when labour field moderate candidates (I believe the chap in question voted for Liz Kendal - so Im sure he is on some corbynista de-selection / final solution to the balirite scum list)
I know he's 'technically' correct but he's arguing semantics in my opinion.
If you know the area though you would know that Labour have the Asian communities locked down and that they always turn out to vote. There have been more Labour signs put up in the area than there were for the general election. Labour worked really hard to get their voters out this time.
It would have been truly incredible if UKIP had got in considering how weak and opportunistic their campaign was and against the backdrop of the regeneration the
existing Labour council have been overseeing.
What I do hope is that it gives something that Labour MPs can rally around and hopefully put the infighting to one side for a moment as that infighting is hurting the party more than anything.
