Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

It has an overall narrative and frequently misrepresents evidence to suit that narrative. Here's a few:

"Concerns about sexual assaults on public transport were construed as campaigning for women-only trains. Advocacy for Keynesian fiscal and monetary policies was presented as a plan to “turn Britain into Zimbabwe.” An appeal to reconsider the foreign policy approach of the last decade was presented as an association with Putin’s Russia." - Women-only train carriages was an actual suggestion he made, it wasn't made up. He advocated "people's QE" in order to fund spending commitments, which was highlighted as likely to increase inflation. He had frequent appearances on Russia Today as a reliable West-basher.

The complaints about Laura Kuenssberg being able to get stories is bizarre. The complaints about the anti-semitism ordeal completely miss the point, citing "only" one sitting MP (and ignoring the continued and repeated anti-semitic actions in the aftermath of one of Corbyn's longest-standing political friends), who has since admitted that she was being anti-semitic and strongly apologised for it, criticising the many who had defended what she said.

Citing the resignations of the shadow cabinet as evidence of BBC bias - it's news. They cover that.

Citing the Thomas Piketty resignation - it's correct to say it was initially reported as a response to the EU vote and later turned out to have been done earlier. But it also implies that him having cited Corbyn's "weak leadership" was an invention - it wasn't, he did complain about it.

Apparently complaining about a tweet from a Guardian journalist that accurately reports what McDonnell said on free movement.

I could go on. It wants there to be a big conspiracy to bring down a faultless leader, whereas in reality the media just likes conflict and are going to report on it - see how giddy with excitement they were when Gove moved against Boris. Or when Angela Leadsom pulled out of the Tory leadership race, and they abandoned Angela Eagle's leadership launch to go and cover it. Do the media get things wrong and have to correct stuff when new info comes to light? Of course, and again this happens on the right. It's not a conspiracy.

Apologies for the length of the response there, wasn't intending to go on that much :lol:

That first line is pretty ironic :lol:

He didn't campaign for women only train carriages. Your own evidence makes that clear. There are arguments to be had about people's QE without Zimbabwe comparisons. All of those examples are from a Private Eye section anyway:



Kuenssberg — We've been here before. The on-air resignation was hugely problematic. Probably an abuse of her position. More widely, the BBC's political coverage is often problematic because there is little separation between comment and correspondence. The criticism of the BBC's coverage from both Nick Robinson and Michael Lyons is telling.

The resignations were not cited as evidence of bias, the Kuenssberg article alleging that Corbyn sabotaged the remain campaign in advance of them was. I didn't read that article at the time but Christ it is an awful, awful article. (It takes around three quotes out of context from a handful of emails selectively leaked to her by a biased source out of god knows how many emails sent during the campaign which she manages to construct a 700 word article alleging a deliberate sabotage attempt from). Kuenssberg might not be a bad political commentator. She is an awful journalist.

Piketty resigned in advance of Brexit due to time constraints. Post Brexit he said he was concerned about it and thought that Labour's campaign had been weak. Somehow that becomes "Piketty resign's due to Corbyn's weak leadership". I mean wasn't Alan Johnson the head of Labour's campaign?

The Israel ISIS speech was a new nadir for reporting. When even The Guardian is literally deliberately misquoting Corbyn to attack him it should be obvious how agenda driven the media is.


And look. This isn't to say Corbyn is a faultless leader who is only struggling to connect to people because of the press he gets. But the press he gets is a problem. Not just for Labour's electoral chances but for our democracy.

It is also bizarre that people on the centre-left/Corbyn's opponents are so happy to dismiss and ignore this sort of agenda. This kind of agenda is precisely why Miliband couldn't win. It's not the only reason, but it will happen again to the soft-left if you succeed in removing Corbyn. (You will at least have The Guardian back on side as if that will make a difference)

The media continually and deliberately get things wrong with corrections never given equivalent prominence. We can have a debate about the causation. Is the British media shitty and racist and right-wing and war-mongering because that's what the British people want to read, or are the British people shitty and racist and right-wing and war-mongering because that's what their media tell them to be? Probably a bit of column A and a bit of column B. But we undoubtedly have an awful media and that shouldn't be brushed aside simply because they are undermining someone you do not like.

That's just the first bit I read of the post. The rest looks quite twisted too.

Concerns about sexual assaults on public transport were construed as campaigning for women-only trains

Corbyn said: “Some women have raised with me that a solution to the rise in assault and harassment on public transport could be to introduce women only carriages. My intention would be to make public transport safer for everyone from the train platform, to the bus stop to on the mode of transport itself. However, I would consult with women and open it up to hear their views on whether women-only carriages would be welcome - and also if piloting this at times and modes of transport where harassment is reported most frequently would be of interest.

Suggest a consultation on an idea = Campaigning.
Make multiple speeches and appearances explicitly campaigning for the UK to remain in the EU = Sabotaging the Remain case. Not campaigning

Yes. It is the Jacobin article that is twisted.

2+2=5
 
That first line is pretty ironic :lol:

He didn't campaign for women only train carriages. Your own evidence makes that clear. There are arguments to be had about people's QE without Zimbabwe comparisons. All of those examples are from a Private Eye section anyway:



Kuenssberg — We've been here before. The on-air resignation was hugely problematic. Probably an abuse of her position. More widely, the BBC's political coverage is often problematic because there is little separation between comment and correspondence. The criticism of the BBC's coverage from both Nick Robinson and Michael Lyons is telling.

The resignations were not cited as evidence of bias, the Kuenssberg article alleging that Corbyn sabotaged the remain campaign in advance of them was. I didn't read that article at the time but Christ it is an awful, awful article. (It takes around three quotes out of context from a handful of emails selectively leaked to her by a biased source out of god knows how many emails sent during the campaign which she manages to construct a 700 word article alleging a deliberate sabotage attempt from). Kuenssberg might not be a bad political commentator. She is an awful journalist.

Piketty resigned in advance of Brexit due to time constraints. Post Brexit he said he was concerned about it and thought that Labour's campaign had been weak. Somehow that becomes "Piketty resign's due to Corbyn's weak leadership". I mean wasn't Alan Johnson the head of Labour's campaign?

The Israel ISIS speech was a new nadir for reporting. When even The Guardian is literally deliberately misquoting Corbyn to attack him it should be obvious how agenda driven the media is.


And look. This isn't to say Corbyn is a faultless leader who is only struggling to connect to people because of the press he gets. But the press he gets is a problem. Not just for Labour's electoral chances but for our democracy.

It is also bizarre that people on the centre-left/Corbyn's opponents are so happy to dismiss and ignore this sort of agenda. This kind of agenda is precisely why Miliband couldn't win. It's not the only reason, but it will happen again to the soft-left if you succeed in removing Corbyn. (You will at least have The Guardian back on side as if that will make a difference)

The media continually and deliberately get things wrong with corrections never given equivalent prominence. We can have a debate about the causation. Is the British media shitty and racist and right-wing and war-mongering because that's what the British people want to read, or are the British people shitty and racist and right-wing and war-mongering because that's what their media tell them to be? Probably a bit of column A and a bit of column B. But we undoubtedly have an awful media and that shouldn't be brushed aside simply because they are undermining someone you do not like.



Concerns about sexual assaults on public transport were construed as campaigning for women-only trains

Corbyn said: “Some women have raised with me that a solution to the rise in assault and harassment on public transport could be to introduce women only carriages. My intention would be to make public transport safer for everyone from the train platform, to the bus stop to on the mode of transport itself. However, I would consult with women and open it up to hear their views on whether women-only carriages would be welcome - and also if piloting this at times and modes of transport where harassment is reported most frequently would be of interest.

Suggest a consultation on an idea = Campaigning.
Make multiple speeches and appearances explicitly campaigning for the UK to remain in the EU = Sabotaging the Remain case. Not campaigning

Yes. It is the Jacobin article that is twisted.

2+2=5

Where did I say he was campaigning for women's only carriages? That's taken from the Jacobin article. I said he brought the issue up, which he did.

What's the dreaded Guardian's headline? "Corbyn raises possibility of women-only carriages" - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-carriages-a-possibility-under-jeremy-corbyn
Murdoch's Sky News? "Corbyn considers women-only carriages" - http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-considers-women-only-train-carriages-10348297
The Torygraph? "Corbyn considers women-only carriages" - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...byn-considers-women-only-train-carriages.html

Which of those isn't accurate? So judging from that Private Eye clipping, the worst headline on that was from the widely known opinion setter the Daily Star. And that one doesn't even have the word "campaign" either. But maybe they started going over the top after that, I don't remember anymore, and train carriages is pretty innocuous in the scheme of things. Still don't think they've got much of a point with what they've written.

And I think it's a tad harsh to criticise me for "ignoring" and "dismissing" the difficulty the left has at winning over the press. Literally one of the first things I said in the Labour leadership thread last year was along the lines of "we really need to pick someone they're going to find tough to attack". People decided to choose Jeremy Corbyn instead, presumably they didn't think it would be an issue. The one that it was completely blatant had a shitload of bad stuff in their past that would not only damage his leadership, but the party (which he goes and makes worse by bringing in McDonnell). And honestly, the rightwing press haven't even really started yet. The IRA stuff is going to be brought out the second a general election is called.

The problem I really have is that these guys think the fecking GUARDIAN have joined a conspiracy. I didn't even get to the part of the article where they state the Daily Mirror and Guardian are flouting the wishes of their readership, citing polling, then provide as evidence a tweet talking about a self-selecting, unscientific survey of Guardian readers that are Labour members. He's just shit, that's why the Guardian and Mirror, and most Labour voters incidentally, don't like him. They actually like Labour being in power. So yeah, sorry, I'm not accepting this is "an unprecedented campaign" against him. The rightwing are doing what they do to every Labour leader. The left are openly talking about how bad he is.

Alan Johnson has publicly accepted his responsibility for the campaign. The first things that Jeremy Corbyn did the day after was say that article 50 should be triggered "now", with his office briefing that "he'd shown he was the leader closest to the public on the issue" (the absolute cretin, still makes me angry). He was "7/10" interested. If you're now thinking this was acceptable and not something he bears direct responsibility for, then I don't know what to say.
 
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Where did I say he was campaigning for women's only carriages? That's taken from the Jacobin article. I said he brought the issue up, which he did.

What's the dreaded Guardian's headline? "Corbyn raises possibility of women-only carriages" - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-carriages-a-possibility-under-jeremy-corbyn
Murdoch's Sky News? "Corbyn considers women-only carriages" - http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-considers-women-only-train-carriages-10348297
The Torygraph? "Corbyn considers women-only carriages" - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...byn-considers-women-only-train-carriages.html

Which of those isn't accurate? So judging from that Private Eye clipping, the worst headline on that was from the widely known opinion setter the Daily Star. And that one doesn't even have the word "campaign" either. But maybe they started going over the top after that, I don't remember anymore, and train carriages is pretty innocuous in the scheme of things. Still don't think they've got much of a point with what they've written.

And I think it's a tad harsh to criticise me for "ignoring" and "dismissing" the difficulty the left has at winning over the press. Literally one of the first things I said in the Labour leadership thread last year was along the lines of "we really need to pick someone they're going to find tough to attack". People decided to choose Jeremy Corbyn instead, presumably they didn't think it would be an issue. The one that it was completely blatant had a shitload of bad stuff in their past that would not only damage his leadership, but the party (which he goes and makes worse by bringing in McDonnell). And honestly, the rightwing press haven't even really started yet. The IRA stuff is going to be brought out the second a general election is called.

The problem I really have is that these guys think the fecking GUARDIAN have joined a conspiracy. I didn't even get to the part of the article where they state the Daily Mirror and Guardian are flouting the wishes of their readership, citing polling, then provide as evidence a tweet talking about a self-selecting, unscientific survey of Guardian readers that are Labour members. He's just shit, that's why the Guardian and Mirror, and most Labour voters incidentally, don't like him. They actually like Labour being in power. So yeah, sorry, I'm not accepting this is "an unprecedented campaign" against him. The rightwing are doing what they do to every Labour leader. The left are openly talking about how bad he is.

Alan Johnson has publicly accepted his responsibility for the campaign. The first things that Jeremy Corbyn did the day after was say that article 50 should be triggered "now", with his office briefing that "he'd shown he was the leader closest to the public on the issue" (the absolute cretin, still makes me angry). He was "7/10" interested. If you're now thinking this was acceptable and not something he bears direct responsibility for, then I don't know what to say.
Seems to me you're getting inordinately irate over something that matters not a jot. You can read that as me "thinking this was acceptable and not something he bears direct responsibility for" if you like - and I wont mind at all if you don't know what to say.
 
Seems to me you're getting inordinately irate over something that matters not a jot. You can read that as me "thinking this was acceptable and not something he bears direct responsibility for" if you like - and I wont mind at all if you don't know what to say.
That's great. But I was talking to Untied.
 
Where did I say he was campaigning for women's only carriages? That's taken from the Jacobin article. I said he brought the issue up, which he did.

What's the dreaded Guardian's headline? "Corbyn raises possibility of women-only carriages" - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-carriages-a-possibility-under-jeremy-corbyn
Murdoch's Sky News? "Corbyn considers women-only carriages" - http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-considers-women-only-train-carriages-10348297
The Torygraph? "Corbyn considers women-only carriages" - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...byn-considers-women-only-train-carriages.html

Which of those isn't accurate? So judging from that Private Eye clipping, the worst headline on that was from the widely known opinion setter the Daily Star. And that one doesn't even have the word "campaign" either. But maybe they started going over the top after that, I don't remember anymore, and train carriages is pretty innocuous in the scheme of things. Still don't think they've got much of a point with what they've written.

And I think it's a tad harsh to criticise me for "ignoring" and "dismissing" the difficulty the left has at winning over the press. Literally one of the first things I said in the Labour leadership thread last year was along the lines of "we really need to pick someone they're going to find tough to attack". People decided to choose Jeremy Corbyn instead, presumably they didn't think it would be an issue. The one that it was completely blatant had a shitload of bad stuff in their past that would not only damage his leadership, but the party (which he goes and makes worse by bringing in McDonnell). And honestly, the rightwing press haven't even really started yet. The IRA stuff is going to be brought out the second a general election is called.

The problem I really have is that these guys think the fecking GUARDIAN have joined a conspiracy. I didn't even get to the part of the article where they state the Daily Mirror and Guardian are flouting the wishes of their readership, citing polling, then provide as evidence a tweet talking about a self-selecting, unscientific survey of Guardian readers that are Labour members. He's just shit, that's why the Guardian and Mirror, and most Labour voters incidentally, don't like him. They actually like Labour being in power. So yeah, sorry, I'm not accepting this is "an unprecedented campaign" against him. The rightwing are doing what they do to every Labour leader. The left are openly talking about how bad he is.

Alan Johnson has publicly accepted his responsibility for the campaign. The first things that Jeremy Corbyn did the day after was say that article 50 should be triggered "now", with his office briefing that "he'd shown he was the leader closest to the public on the issue" (the absolute cretin, still makes me angry). He was "7/10" interested. If you're now thinking this was acceptable and not something he bears direct responsibility for, then I don't know what to say.

The fact that women's only carriages is a fairly innocuous example is the perfect illustration of the problem. A political leader says we should ask women whether they feel that would help with abuse/harassment. This quickly becomes a lead story. The follow up refers to it as his idea/plan. And for those people who are not sad enough to follow the intricacies of these stories the impression they will get (and were intended to get) is of a barmy idea from a loony Labour leader.

Are women carriages a good solution to the problem? Maybe not. Probably not. Is it a problem that our media did not permit a grown up democratic conversation about them? Definitely.

The Guardian isn't immune from editorial bias. They have been opposed to Corbyn from the start and there have been a number of stories undermining him of spurious factual basis. I mean they are currently running a story about a Corbyn aide illegally breaking into MP's office. I'm not entirely clear on the protocol in Parliament, so it might be a big mistake, but if you correct the spin the story is something like "Office manager enters office of MP who resigned from post one month ago to see whether office is vacated yet"

They had a similarly shit article about Corbyn denying access to parliament to aides of those who had recently publicly resigned. Yes. According to The Guardian it is petty to stop access by those who no longer warrant it.

The hypocrisy they end up tangling themselves in is hilarious. They are criticising Corbyn for an aide possibly breaching privacy by entering an office but also calling him petty emailing the sergeant at arms to inform them of people no longer employed by the Labour Party who subsequently had their passes blocked to prevent such breaches in privacy.

I do think the word conspiracy is incredibly unhelpful. I think agenda is a more accurate term. And The Guardian's journalism wrt Corbyn certainly has had an agenda beyond reporting the facts. And it's fine to disagree but I think deliberately misquoting the recorded words of a political figure suggests an unprecedented agenda to me. And we can argue about the choice of phrasing and I would agree that it was poor. But that doesn't excuse The Guardian and other media outlets from running stories based upon something Corbyn never said.

Corbyn's response to the EU result was absolutely infuriating. I'm still angry about that as well. But we were discussing the context of the Piketty resignation and it is a reach to take the quotes and the timeline and attribute the resignation to Corbyn's personally weak campaign, as the media was all to happy to do.

Corbyn and the EU campaign is a topic I could go much longer on. But very briefly. As shit as he was the focus on him is itself agenda driven. Labour carried 63% of voters as Remain. Turnout was the main problem. Yet the discussion has focused on his inability to convince the white working classes to Remain. If you want to blame Labour for the Leave vote you should: 1. Talk about the turnout in their pro-remain areas 2. Talk about the voters they have lost to UKIP under previous leaders. This was not about Corbyn's inability to talk to the north (Well sort of. He couldn't convert those who had voted UKIP in '15, having previously voted Labour, to vote Remain. That's not solely his fault)

But the SNP only carried 64% and they are using that as justification for leaving the UK. Lib Dems 70%ish and yet Farron amusingly eviscerated Corbyn on TV on the 24th over his poor campaign. (These percentages are from memory, apologies if they are off but hopefully not wildly so).
 
The fact that women's only carriages is a fairly innocuous example is the perfect illustration of the problem. A political leader says we should ask women whether they feel that would help with abuse/harassment. This quickly becomes a lead story. The follow up refers to it as his idea/plan. And for those people who are not sad enough to follow the intricacies of these stories the impression they will get (and were intended to get) is of a barmy idea from a loony Labour leader.

Are women carriages a good solution to the problem? Maybe not. Probably not. Is it a problem that our media did not permit a grown up democratic conversation about them? Definitely.

The Guardian isn't immune from editorial bias. They have been opposed to Corbyn from the start and there have been a number of stories undermining him of spurious factual basis. I mean they are currently running a story about a Corbyn aide illegally breaking into MP's office. I'm not entirely clear on the protocol in Parliament, so it might be a big mistake, but if you correct the spin the story is something like "Office manager enters office of MP who resigned from post one month ago to see whether office is vacated yet"

They had a similarly shit article about Corbyn denying access to parliament to aides of those who had recently publicly resigned. Yes. According to The Guardian it is petty to stop access by those who no longer warrant it.

The hypocrisy they end up tangling themselves in is hilarious. They are criticising Corbyn for an aide possibly breaching privacy by entering an office but also calling him petty emailing the sergeant at arms to inform them of people no longer employed by the Labour Party who subsequently had their passes blocked to prevent such breaches in privacy.

I do think the word conspiracy is incredibly unhelpful. I think agenda is a more accurate term. And The Guardian's journalism wrt Corbyn certainly has had an agenda beyond reporting the facts. And it's fine to disagree but I think deliberately misquoting the recorded words of a political figure suggests an unprecedented agenda to me. And we can argue about the choice of phrasing and I would agree that it was poor. But that doesn't excuse The Guardian and other media outlets from running stories based upon something Corbyn never said.

Corbyn's response to the EU result was absolutely infuriating. I'm still angry about that as well. But we were discussing the context of the Piketty resignation and it is a reach to take the quotes and the timeline and attribute the resignation to Corbyn's personally weak campaign, as the media was all to happy to do.

Corbyn and the EU campaign is a topic I could go much longer on. But very briefly. As shit as he was the focus on him is itself agenda driven. Labour carried 63% of voters as Remain. Turnout was the main problem. Yet the discussion has focused on his inability to convince the white working classes to Remain. If you want to blame Labour for the Leave vote you should: 1. Talk about the turnout in their pro-remain areas 2. Talk about the voters they have lost to UKIP under previous leaders. This was not about Corbyn's inability to talk to the north (Well sort of. He couldn't convert those who had voted UKIP in '15, having previously voted Labour, to vote Remain. That's not solely his fault)

But the SNP only carried 64% and they are using that as justification for leaving the UK. Lib Dems 70%ish and yet Farron amusingly eviscerated Corbyn on TV on the 24th over his poor campaign. (These percentages are from memory, apologies if they are off but hopefully not wildly so).

And not a single story on say... Rob Marris deleting important files to the party when he resigned.
 
:lol: The parliamentary party is against him. Former Labour leaders are against him. The press is against him. Political commentators are against him. The vast majority of the public are against him. Even most Labour voters are against him.

It must be a grand conspiracy! Or he's just shit.
 
It is also bizarre that people on the centre-left/Corbyn's opponents are so happy to dismiss and ignore this sort of agenda. This kind of agenda is precisely why Miliband couldn't win. It's not the only reason, but it will happen again to the soft-left if you succeed in removing Corbyn. (You will at least have The Guardian back on side as if that will make a difference)
The reason Ed Miliband couldn't win is because he was a bit shit. Ok, not Corbyn levels of shit, but still pretty terrible.

It's infuriating that rather than learning its lesson, Labour installed an even more unelectable leader.

There are some people in the PLP that I could see developing into leaders the public and press would find appealing, but Corbyn supporters like to dismiss them as 'Blairites' and 'Red Tories'. Are we going to have to go below 150 MPs for the membership to understand the problem?
 
Who gives a feck what the press find appealing. One of the reasons i respect Corbyn is that you won't find him sitting down with Murdoch at dinner discussing how he can influence policy in parliament.
 
Who gives a feck what the press find appealing. One of the reasons i respect Corbyn is that you won't find him sitting down with Murdoch discussing how he can influence policy in parliament.
It's also one of the reasons he will never ever actually get to put any policy in place... I guess you think labour would have been better with 2 Jags in charge instead of Blair and allowed major to carry on instead... I mean I'm sure he would have implemented tax credits etc?
 
Has any politician in history been more popular whilst being attacked for being unpopular?
 
The reason Ed Miliband couldn't win is because he was a bit shit. Ok, not Corbyn levels of shit, but still pretty terrible.

It's infuriating that rather than learning its lesson, Labour installed an even more unelectable leader.

There are some people in the PLP that I could see developing into leaders the public and press would find appealing, but Corbyn supporters like to dismiss them as 'Blairites' and 'Red Tories'. Are we going to have to go below 150 MPs for the membership to understand the problem?
I apologise if I'm interrupting a private conversation you were having with Untied but... I believe the membership understands the problem. The MPs need to take that on board.
 
Has any politician in history been more popular whilst being attacked for being unpopular?

:lol: It feels to me like if you actually go out and speak to people, the overwhelming opinion is positive towards Corbyn, these political analysts who trawl through polls and internet articles are the ones who get the impression he's unpopular.
 
Who gives a feck what the press find appealing.
Depends if you want a realistic chance of winning an election or not. Has anyone ever won with the press unanimously against them? I mean, no one has won an election without the backing of The Sun since 1974, and that's just one paper.

To dismiss the importance of the press seems a bit crazy to me. They make a real difference.
 
:lol: The parliamentary party is against him. Former Labour leaders are against him. The press is against him. Political commentators are against him. The vast majority of the public are against him. Even most Labour voters are against him.

It must be a grand conspiracy! Or he's just shit.
There was a poll carried out a while back where people weren't against him; quite the opposite, in fact. Oh wait! No, it wasn't a poll; it was a leadership election.
 
:lol: It feels to me like if you actually go out and speak to people, the overwhelming opinion is positive towards Corbyn, these political analysts who trawl through polls and internet articles are the ones who get the impression he's unpopular.
You must be speaking to a very narrow selection of the public. Go speak to some pensioners. Or some small business owners. Or some nationalists in Scotland or Wales.
 
You must be speaking to a very narrow selection of the public. Go speak to some pensioners. Or some small business owners. Or some nationalists in Scotland or Wales.
I think that's more Owen Smith's style. Probably struggle to get more than a couple of hundred to turn up too.
 
Anyone thinking the Guardian aren't on an agenda against Corbyn clearly havent read it in a while. Its literally an article a day, they changed thier liberal stance some time back the only cause they champion these days is feminism.
 
You must be speaking to a very narrow selection of the public. Go speak to some pensioners. Or some small business owners. Or some nationalists in Scotland or Wales.

He's unpopular with people who don't really know much about him, and what they do know is based on media stories. A media that misrepresents him 75% of the time according to an LSE study: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...resentation-we-cant-ignore-bias-a7144381.html

Thats a problem, but its not just a Corbyn problem. Its a Labour problem, made worse by their own MPs feeding the media cycle, if the issue was just 'Corbyn is a bit shit' then that would be great, but the roots of the issue are far deeper than that.
 
Anyone thinking the Guardian aren't on an agenda against Corbyn clearly havent read it in a while. Its literally an article a day, they changed thier liberal stance some time back the only cause they champion these days is feminism.
They seem to be pretty active on the issue of workers' rights and exploitative employment practices too. And there's been a lot of articles about the rise in hate crimes. And they obviously did a lot on the Panama Papers and tax avoidance.
 
So, with people believing that Owen Smith will say anything to get into power, he goes on TV to say that without winning elections principles are just hot air.

Does he actually hear himself speak?

This is the face of campaign that insists they want Corbyn out because he can't get his message across. Angela Eagle set the bar pretty low but he's doing his best to limbo under it.
 
...the only cause they champion these days is feminism.
And even then they're not doing feminism any favours - I read a Guardian article titled 'Is Kim K more important than Simone de Beauvoir?' and I literally turned into Sid the Sexist. Well, maybe not literally, but the point holds.
 
And even then they're not doing feminism any favours - I read a Guardian article titled 'Is Kim K more important than Simone de Beauvoir?' and I literally turned into Sid the Sexist. Well, maybe not literally, but the point holds.

I know right, as if they even need to ask the question.
 
I know right, as if they even need to ask the question.
Yep, it's pure ignorance - it's obvious that she's more important than the singer from Duran Duran.
 
Depends if you want a realistic chance of winning an election or not. Has anyone ever won with the press unanimously against them? I mean, no one has won an election without the backing of The Sun since 1974, and that's just one paper.

To dismiss the importance of the press seems a bit crazy to me. They make a real difference.
Maybe, just maybe, that's changing. Social media is rising. I haven't bought a newspaper for years.
 
Depends if you want a realistic chance of winning an election or not. Has anyone ever won with the press unanimously against them? I mean, no one has won an election without the backing of The Sun since 1974, and that's just one paper.

To dismiss the importance of the press seems a bit crazy to me. They make a real difference.

Seriously feel you overestimate papers nowadays.
 
Seriously feel you overestimate papers nowadays.
They've basically pulled us out of the EU singlehandedly with their crazy 'reporting' of Brussels over the years. It was a fringe, slightly looney, idea to leave the EU, until the right-wing press basically ran a never-ending campaign against the EU for the past decade or so.

I don't think it's possible to win an election if the press are completely against you. A solid media strategy ('spin' in other words) is essential in modern politics.
 
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The age of the internet has actually made newspapers far more powerful than they have ever been. The Daily Mail never had a readership of more than 2.5 million in the age of the printed press. That they now have 225 million unique monthly visitors to their website tells you all that you need to know.
 
How does it all fit together? The Mirror bought MEN from the Guardian, right? But the Guardian is itself still independent?
 
This whole story about a Corbyn aide (facilities manager)'breaking' into an office of someone who resigned a month a go now is just absurd.

Is that really something that needs taking to the media like this MP did? It says something when the tory leadership campaign is run in a more civilised and less petty manner.

I look forward to tomorrow's peice on how Corbyns PA ate the last sandwich that someone else had called dibs on.
 
I think you seriously underestimate them. The Daily Mail is the most visited English language newspaper website in the world! They have 225 million unique visitors each month!
The majority of visitors are American. And that's for the celebrity gossip.
 
What a surprise, it was Karie Murphy.
 
The majority of visitors are American. And that's for the celebrity gossip.

The number of UK visitors is still massive and gives them far more reach than they had pre internet. People may well go on for celebrity gossip but it makes them far more likely to click on other stories and come to rely on the paper as a news source.
 
How does it all fit together? The Mirror bought MEN from the Guardian, right? But the Guardian is itself still independent?
The Guardian is independent, yeah. They've chosen their Red Tory Anti-Corbyn narrative all on their own.
 
Seriously feel you overestimate papers nowadays.

The defining image of the 2015 election was someone eating a sandwich. Britain left Europe against the wishes of all but one major party and every expert.
 
There are probably quite a few empty offices - or offices that should be empty. Maybe someone should round up some of the homeless people from Milton Keynes who's tents were destroyed by the local council and put them up until things are sorted out and the MPs get back to doing what they should.