Worth keeping an eye on - Co-operative party to develop policies distinct to Labour's http://www.theguardian.com/politics...arty-policies-distinct-labour-100-anniversary
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The Independent knows me personally!
Looking forward to what Owen Smith has in store on The Andrew Marr Show this morning. He might actually have to publicly comment on Michael Foster's comments with him in the news again.
Tell me again corbynhipsters how you don't need us evil centrist Blairites to win power...
Pointless poll as political identities change from person to person, it's then no surprise the most vagueness answer (What are the actually politics of this ''centre'' ground) is the most popular.
In that case, the same vagueness would be applied to the views of the party leaders. People presumably know where they stand with regards to established politicians.
Here are the results of some of those:
May: 13% centre, 27% centre right, 28% right
Corbyn: 47% left, 10% centre left, 7% centre
Farage: 9% centre, 11% centre right, 40% right
And here's Sadiq Khan by way of comparison:
12% left, 22% centre left, 14% centre
Here are the results of some of those:
May: 13% centre, 27% centre right, 28% right
Corbyn: 47% left, 10% centre left, 7% centre
Farage: 9% centre, 11% centre right, 40% right
And here's Sadiq Khan by way of comparison:
12% left, 22% centre left, 14% centre
Id say its quite accurate but at the same time if you asked people to pick policies instead it would be a different outlook completely. I think thats quite well substantiated at this point.
My argument is that the British public have no idea what the center ground is. Examples
.What has Farage ever done to show he's anywhere near the centre right, let alone the 'center')
.What has Khan done to say people he's a on the left or centre left, he's hasn't done anything of note yet. Well part from going back on his train policy.
The British public recent voting record
Brexit - the biggest political vote for decades, only a few months ago and the majority(Well Wales and England)vote for a campaign that was run on the Far Right and actually used the nazi propaganda.
If someone voted for Leave and thinks she/he in the centre then they need to get their political compass checked.
Disagree, Brexit, UKIP and the constant voting in of Tory governments.
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What happened to Blair being centre left?
Momentum... it appears he has been rebranded more of a centre right / male thatcher / evil warmonger
And of course those of us that thought we were centrist / left of centre are now red Tories apparently
I don't think a very large proportion of the electorate actually know where they stand on the spectrum... you'd have to ask them about individual policies to get a reasonable idea of where they are. Asking them where they think they are is a bit pointless and unsurprising that most would say 'centre'.
5% of people in that very same survey you quote said Corbyn was right wing and 7% said Farage was on the left.
Yeah this point I was also trying to make.
I must have missed those memos, especially the evil warmonger one. Was it buried in the middle of the Chilcot report?
I find the whole "centre" thing daft. Obviously it's a case of leaning left on some issues and right on others but in reality there is no actual centre because one centrist might lean left on a certain issue and another right on the same issue so it's almost a pseudo alignment.
No its the official moment policy isn't it "let's throw away any opportunity for a left of centre government that can actually introduce things like minimum wage and ran credits and concentrate on shouting in our echo chamber"
It's all about perception, and I think you make a fair point in that regard.
Khan's done nothing yet, but he was elected in as the new kind of progressive but still sensible London mayor and as a result people perceive as being somewhere centre-left on the spectrum. His actual policies might align around there but he's not had any of note yet and I doubt many people would read them anyway.
Never mind centrists, Tony Benn will be spinning in his grave.
Ah I see. So if we ignore things like PFI contracts that are crippling the NHS and Iraq, or their recent willingness to appease the Murdoch rags and "look tough on scroungers", New Labour suddenly seem very electable again*. It's a bold strategy Cotton...
*apart from those last two elections where it wasn't
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You get a ~5% moron factor with every poll you make, the point is to look at the weight of the data. How many believe Theresa May is in a relatively central position? 40%+. How many people think Jeremy Corbyn is in a relatively central position? 20%. Even if you don't think self-identification means anything of itself (and it's a fairly common thing to look at in political science research), that's a pretty clear sign that people see themselves as closer to May than Corbyn.
You can say the exact same things for "right" and "left", they're all shorthand for coalitions of different groups with different ideas.
And half of Corbyn's office (dare I say Corbyn himself).
Agree.
It seems at best a mix match of ideas with the sole intention of getting into power. Which to it's credit it worked in the early 90's and 2000's but after such things as Iraq war and the crash in 08 it's was never going to last.
I image Benn would have done the same as Corbyn and voted remain, it one of thing being against the EU in the 70's and being against it now. But we'll never know.
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Oh yeah that I'm not trying to make the case against Khan(Although I'm not a fan)is more that how anyone can says he's any of these's things when he's only just being in office.
Pretty sure a man who just last year said he didn't know which way he'll vote is going to be describing anyone who voted to leave as hardcore righties. He went through the lobby with anti-EU types enough himself.
Might achieve more than saying you wouldn't shoot to kill terrorists on a rampage or let's spend loads on subs then not put nukes on them?
Of all the things you could have picked it's these two? With Owen's ISIS and the best way to get rid of nukes is to spend billions on new ones comments.
I haven't describe people who voted Leave as hardcore righties, I said they weren't politically in the centre. Which I think is fair.
Anyway back to Corbyn, this is going to be pointless if you actual believe he voted out, He said he voted Remain we have to take his word for it(Christ you like Blair, taking politicians at face value should be easy for you).
Also you can see why The Labour Party is in such a mess, one half doesn't believe the leader of the party through spite than anything else and the other side keeps bringing up the Iraq War.
Never said he voted leave (I don't care either way, he just didn't campaign very well), I said he'd disagree with your appraisal of their voters. Given you mentioned it was a campaign of the far right using nazi propaganda, it seemed you were making a link.
Of all the things you could have picked it's these two? With Owen's ISIS and the best way to get rid of nukes is to spend billions on new ones comments.
You realise the subs cost a lot more than the nukes?
£31bn to replace the submarines, but only £250m to keep the warheads going until 2060.
Nothing can be more ridiculous than spending billions on subs without the warheads, and then expecting the rest of the world to magically disarm.
I'd say they're both utterly ridiculous comments. But then I'm not the one who raised it as an issue worth picking the other guy over.
My point was that the Leave voters weren't in the centre, I was trying to use Briexit as example against the poll you posted although my bad if I hadn't it that clear.
As for the Nazi propaganda stuff that's just true - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants.
On the EU issue I think it's fair to say that Corbyn didn't really do all that well in his own campaigning, but I don't see anything wrong with him having a divided/changing opinion on the matter.
As someone who flirted with the idea of Leave before becoming an ardent Remainer, I'd argue it's much easier to relate to someone who's got a fairly nuanced view of an issue and is unsure on it, like Corbyn has been. I find that more believable than party figures who are staunchly for Remain to the point where they'd be unable to see any flaws in the EU.
Again, that's probably not all that helpful in actual politics because people aren't going to be convinced by your opinion if you're only half-convinced by it yourself, but at the same time Corbyn being divided on the EU is completely reasonable. A number of Labour voters were going to vote Leave either and having someone like Owen Smith patronise them by saying he'd tackle immigration whilst not planning to do anything about it in actuality wouldn't have changed their eventual vote at all.
As someone who flirted with the idea of Leave before becoming an ardent Remainer, I'd argue it's much easier to relate to someone who's got a fairly nuanced view of an issue and is unsure on it, like Corbyn has been. I find that more believable than party figures who are staunchly for Remain to the point where they'd be unable to see any flaws in the EU.
Again, that's probably not all that helpful in actual politics because people aren't going to be convinced by your opinion if you're only half-convinced by it yourself, but at the same time Corbyn being divided on the EU is completely reasonable. A number of Labour voters were going to vote Leave either and having someone like Owen Smith patronise them by saying he'd tackle immigration whilst not planning to do anything about it in actuality wouldn't have changed their eventual vote at all.
A bit late but re: Ken Livingstone on TV - was this regarding his interview with Sky?
Because if so I watched that live at work, he was discussing Keith Vaz and it was Kay Burley who couldn't help herself and asked Ken about the Hitler comments, not Ken bringing it up unprovoked.
Because if so I watched that live at work, he was discussing Keith Vaz and it was Kay Burley who couldn't help herself and asked Ken about the Hitler comments, not Ken bringing it up unprovoked.
So, looks like Corbyn is losing his seat on the boundary review. Him, Thornberry and Abbott could be competing for two seats.
I read that Umunna will be okay because of the 40% rule - there's no incumbent near him contesting the new seat. Mind you, there could just be a hell of a lot of incorrect leaks too.
Ah cheers.
I'm sure momentum will have a crack at deselecting him... or at least chucking the odd brick through his windows
Some of the suspensions are beyond a joke. Atlees great nephew has seemingly been suspended because he shared a post aimed at the tories which was a quote about chipping away at freedoms with a pic of hitler in the background.
Sure it has nothing to do with the fact he publically declared his support for Corbyn
Sure it has nothing to do with the fact he publically declared his support for Corbyn
Not sure a suspension of 3,000 members would be particularly effective in purge terms.
conference is going to be horrific isn't it - factions, tribalism, booing, name calling etc and of course the rumblings of deselection, purges and splits...
And given the short lead time for the security contractor I wouldn't be surprised to see a few organisation blunders thrown in just for good measure.
And given the short lead time for the security contractor I wouldn't be surprised to see a few organisation blunders thrown in just for good measure.