Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
So essentially you just want Blairism?
I want a choice between the two, the sooner the party splits the better.
Would just ensure a Tory government, though.
Thats not wht they are trying tokick her out though... they are trying to kick her out because she speaks out against the anti semitic abuse she has received and particulraly how she feels the leadership of jeremy corbyn has not addressed this.
Should she just accept this and not say anything? - isnt this how
Nothing says you're serious about antisemitism quite like comparing Momentum to the Nazis. Please, go on.
I get it, if your a liberal then supporting a far left leadership who's basically offering potentially radical (Although it really is mostly standard)social democracy might be difficult but just be honest about it.
Stop framing it as anti semitism or party take over conspiracy. Because one it undermines actual anti semitism and two is just stupid, I mean the top guy of momentum is John Landsman who has been very critical of anti semitism in the party, is just himself Jewish and has come out in support of Berger.
Stop framing it as anti semitism or party take over conspiracy. Because one it undermines actual anti semitism and two is just stupid, I mean the top guy of momentum is John Landsman who has been very critical of anti semitism in the party, is just himself Jewish and has come out in support of Berger.
not sure - they will probably split in to conservatives and brexit party
if the end outcome was a true multi party system and ensuring we had to go to a PR system (as basically every government would end up as a coalition anyway) it would probably be worth it in the long run
because of course kicking people out of party who are getting death threats and abuse is apparently better than tackling the problem of antisemitism... I mean if they get rid of the jews from the party then they wont have any complaints.... whats next eradicating the problem from the country...
Thankfully corbyn is finished in the eyes of the electorate and this farce will soon be over .... its just a shame that the legacy will be the most ineffectual leadership of the labour party ever possibly finishing the party and certainly giving the ERG mob the upper hand in the brexit mess... ooooog jeremy corbyn indeed
Is calling a spade a spade, or an anti-Semite an anti-Semite in this instance undermining anti-Semitism when Luciana Berger had to attend the Labour Party conference with a police escort due to the death threats she was subjected to for speaking out against the anti-Semitism she has witnessed and been subjected to herself within the Labour Party. Further confounded by the inaction and disinterest by the party's leaders.
Unfortunately it won't be soon over, not without a split. The Corbyn fanatics will never let the project die, they will continue to re-elect him in party leadership elections and Corbyn has proven he's not the kind of man who will stand aside for the good of the party.
That would depend on how many votes a Momentum Left party would take from a Centrist Left
. And how far to the right the Tories were. In any event I would like the choice.So now an organisation led by a Jewish man not only wants to 'get rid of Jews from the Labour Party' but you're suggesting they'll move on to getting them out of the country.
Amazing.
At some point you have to accept that this country needs more than two viable parties. There is no good time for that to happen from an electoral success perspective, but it still needs to happen. Its not like the Tories aren't struggling with the same dilemma, trying to hold together two wings that have incompatible values. A split could just as likely take the metro-centric, classical liberal, pro-EU pro-business Tory vote with them, or prompt a creation of a further party along those lines.
First paragraph describes me. Have to say I can’t get worked up about the whole antisemitism thing (as it applies to Corbyn anyway). I’d be far more worried about him being so unelectable, despite the present incumbent being basically a running joke.
I do accept that; it's why I voted 'yes' in the AV referendum. Until you change the FPTP system though it's very difficult for more than two parties to survive and eventually splinter groups will be forced to be subsumed in to a monolithic broad church party (like both Labour and the Tories are) because they realise that however much they dislike some people, they really dislike the others.
there will never be more than 2 viable parties in a system where 35% of the vote can get you a majority of the seats in parliament
I’d probably be the opposite - I could get on board with the radical social and economic agenda, but I’d be put right off by the kooky foreign policy, fanatic ‘anti-Zionism’, and basic view of world held by Corbyn and associates.
True, but there's no pressure to change the political system while the status quo suits the two largest parties. Anyway, as UKIP showed, you can exert pressure that is disproportionate to the actual number of seats you have. For people like me unrepresented by the two major parties, that feels better than the choice on offer right now.
protest votes like UKIP are different to being a viable party, you're usually voting for a single issue party in the hope that one of the major parties absorbs that platform to win those votes
I honestly don't know how replicable that is, though. It's difficult to see how any fringe left wing group, no matter how radical or shouty, could get the disproportionate amount of airtime and attention from the media that allowed UKIP's platform to reach its audience.
@That'sHernandez
I think a centrist pro-EU party would get a lot of airtime if it got its act together - it wuld have the backing of most of business and the media would split between them and the Tories; Labour and the new SDP could sabotage each other effectively enough to get the Tories back.
I think a centrist pro-EU party would get a lot of airtime if it got its act together - it wuld have the backing of most of business and the media would split between them and the Tories; Labour and the new SDP could sabotage each other effectively enough to get the Tories back.
They're called the Lib Dems.
They don't have business backing and are apparently dysfunctional. A rebellion by the large mass of anti-Corbyn Labour MPs would catch the imagination of everyone in the media, most businesses, and among voters everyone who's similar to "libcafe".
the major problem they'll have is that the politicians touted to start this party all want to hold the great offices of state and they'd be kissing that goodbye
Yes, half of them will lose their own seats competing against Labour, so it will probably require some political bravery
All of them will. The vast majority of the seats in this country are safe labour or tory. What'll happen is they feck it for labour in the marginals. Owen Smith who's recently talked about leaving labour to start a pro-remain party lives in an safe labour, leave-voting seat, for example.Yes, half of them will lose their own seats competing against Labour, so it will probably require some political bravery
I think they could destroy the Corbyn surge of seats in 2017, which happened in London, which also seems to be the most People's Vote area.
Yeah that's the marginals which will go to the tories and give them a small majority like they had 2015-2017.
I wouldn't hold my breath about Labour keeping them anyway. I'm not really sure what the answer is, but something has to give.
Labour will spend less money in safe seats ala 2017 when the NEC was expecting annihilation and more money in closer races to unseat like likes of Amber Rudd. They will lose some of the richer parts of London but if they can pick up enough votes up North and disrupt the Scottish tory vote they'll make it impossible for the tories to form a government.
Agreed, but then UKIPs voice in the press was insanely over-represented, they approached half as many votes as Labour did in 2015. I think UKIPs air time was a one-off, but it doesnt mean that other parties couldn't do something similar on a smaller scale. The aim of a new party would be to establish itself, not to win an election first time round.
Very astute call.
That is exactly what I would want as well.
But. He gets most of his support from that group.
Nothing unusual there. Most political parties have a party within a party.
As I see it, Momentum are primarily a pressure group pulling Labour toward the left.
Such pressure groups would probably faint (or do something much smellier) their party ever got into power.
I largely agree that MP's within the party should be backing Corbyn (albeit not blindly so) and if they're not ruling out leaving the party or consider openly speaking out against Corbyn then they're probably wasting their time being in the Labour Party.
Problem is though, it's an area where Corbyn's never going to be able to assert his own moral authority because he was essentially in that position for a couple of decades before taking over as leader. Hard for him to demand absolute loyalty when a significant portion of his career involving constantly rebelling against whoever was in power. And for what it's worth I'd have probably agreed with his reasons for rebelling more often than not, but at the same time he'll struggle to argue for excluding people now without seeming at least a tad hypocritical.
Problem is though, it's an area where Corbyn's never going to be able to assert his own moral authority because he was essentially in that position for a couple of decades before taking over as leader. Hard for him to demand absolute loyalty when a significant portion of his career involving constantly rebelling against whoever was in power. And for what it's worth I'd have probably agreed with his reasons for rebelling more often than not, but at the same time he'll struggle to argue for excluding people now without seeming at least a tad hypocritical.
Again the reason she has had a no confidence motion is because she won't put a end to rumours of leaving the party.
Although I would argue that if it takes the far left to put forward social democratic policies then there is something broken with today's liberalism.
But even with that for their own sake liberals should form a breakaway party. They'll get a ton of backing with money, TV air time, They won't have to deal with a membership that completely detests their type of politics and if they think their ideas are popular they could potentially stop the left getting into government.
Now I think the reason it hasn't happened yet is their ideas aren't popular, as mentioned the numbers don't work in their favour and sadly a lot of liberals suffer from late New Labour symptoms. Which is that they showed no interesting skills yet they still went to a high level University so they picked the one course(Literally the one course PPE - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/feb/23/ppe-oxford-university-degree-that-rules-britain)to study.
While this made sense during the era of Blair and third wayism. You take this one course,get a well paid job in a British institution, spend 90% of time in the rich parts of London and you never know you may get a chance to make a few progressive changes to the system.
The 1st major problem comes when the system itself has a complete heart attack, shits it's pants and you now have to defend this system and then the 2nd major problem comes when (Here's where the new labour symptoms really kick in)you've realised everything in that one course is complete useless and you really don't have the skills, knowledge to defend the political ideas you believe in and it's far easier due your connections to get a non political job such as charging the public to see works of art or dancing like a bellend on television.
Ed Balls never wanted to change the economy of Britian, he just wanted to be a BBC light entertainment personality but had no personality and was shit with puppets so he joined the Labour Party instead.
Haven’t seen the interview, but I thought the reason she was said to be considering leaving the party was the anti Semitic abuse she’d received? Or was it Brexit like the other chappy.
Tbf I just read the motions and they don’t reference her wanting to leave the party or Brexit, they just mention her regularly criticising Corbyn.
Yeah I only saw the interview today, although they've now dropped the two motions.
Heaven forbid anyone criticises the Glorious Leader.