Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Smores said:
I just think people need to appreciate that we've had thousand of hours debate in the commons and over a hundred PMQs since the vote. Then you've got all the break away groups and formal cross-party brexit committees. All these have made the same arguments for 2 years, the fact the PM is not listening is not on the leader of the opposition who can only protest or table amendments when allowed.

Labour (including Corbyn and excluding) have done a lot in the commons and lords to steer brexit but there's only so much you can do. We've tried to get rid of her, censored her, submitted her to the biggest defeats on record but if she won't budge or listen and her own MPs won't force it then thats the limit of powers reached.
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Like what? The one thing Theresa May did get spot on last night was that all the MPs are full of reasons why we can't do something, but nobody is coming up with anything on what we can do. Jeremy Corbyn is especially guilty of that.
 
11101 said:
Like what? The one thing Theresa May did get spot on last night was that all the MPs are full of reasons why we can't do something, but nobody is coming up with anything on what we can do. Jeremy Corbyn is especially guilty of that.
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She wasn't 'spot on' about that at all given she actively whipped the Conservatives to vote against indicative votes to decide what should be done.
 
11101 said:
Like what? The one thing Theresa May did get spot on last night was that all the MPs are full of reasons why we can't do something, but nobody is coming up with anything on what we can do. Jeremy Corbyn is especially guilty of that.
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It’s so easy to say that, and so hard to vote for something you know is going to harm your country. I don’t envy MPs with this responsibility.

It’s her job to come up with a way of Brexiting that convinces a majority - and she hasn’t done it. That can only be her fault, and it’s such poor leadership to blame those who she hasn’t convinced. Buck stops with her.
 
Nuts said:
It’s so easy to say that, and so hard to vote for something you know is going to harm your country. I don’t envy MPs with this responsibility.

It’s her job to come up with a way of Brexiting that convinces a majority - and she hasn’t done it. That can only be her fault, and it’s such poor leadership to blame those who she hasn’t convinced. Buck stops with her.
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It's an impossible job. Brexit was sold on the back of a lie that we would have this smooth transition into utopia. We were never going to get a great deal from the EU because it was dead against their interests to offer one.

We have their deal, no deal, or revoke the whole thing. With 8 days left there are no other options and MPs need to stop pretending like there should be and pick one of them. If Corbyn was even slightly bothered he would have set out his own vision and tried to steer the government down it months ago.
 
11101 said:
It's an impossible job. Brexit was sold on the back of a lie that we would have this smooth transition into utopia. We were never going to get a great deal from the EU because it was dead against their interests to offer one.

We have their deal, no deal, or revoke the whole thing. With 8 days left there are no other options and MPs need to stop pretending like there should be and pick one of them. If Corbyn was even slightly bothered he would have set out his own vision and tried to steer the government down it months ago.
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Y'know, I was being sarcastic when I blamed Corbyn for not controlling his Tory party. You sound serious.
 
11101 said:
Like what? The one thing Theresa May did get spot on last night was that all the MPs are full of reasons why we can't do something, but nobody is coming up with anything on what we can do. Jeremy Corbyn is especially guilty of that.
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Firstly Labour made sure that parliament was actually involved in the process rather than sidesteps and they've held them to account with amendments on the process since, that's discounting blocking a majority that would have led to Tories doing whatever they wanted.

Your second point is oblivious to proceedings though, Labour have put forward their ideas for at least 6 months heck its been voted on twice. Then they've proposed ways for May to break the impasse several times with indicative votes and a peoples vote. The ways forward are very clear and obvious but May won't listen or change her red lines.

I really don't attribute any blame or judgement when i say this but just because you don't keep up with parliament activities doesn't mean nothings happening. For those of who watch can see the efforts either side of the house particularly backbench
 
Smores said:
Firstly Labour made sure that parliament was actually involved in the process rather than sidesteps and they've held them to account with amendments on the process since, that's discounting blocking a majority that would have led to Tories doing whatever they wanted.

Your second point is oblivious to proceedings though, Labour have put forward their ideas for at least 6 months heck its been voted on twice. Then they've proposed ways for May to break the impasse several times with indicative votes and a peoples vote. The ways forward are very clear and obvious but May won't listen or change her red lines.

I really don't attribute any blame or judgement when i say this but just because you don't keep up with parliament activities doesn't mean nothings happening. For those of who watch can see the efforts either side of the house particularly backbench
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I should have clarified. Realistic ideas.
 
Smores said:
Labour (including Corbyn and excluding) have done a lot in the commons and lords to steer brexit but there's only so much you can do. We've tried to get rid of her, censored her, submitted her to the biggest defeats on record but if she won't budge or listen and her own MPs won't force it then thats the limit of powers reached.
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Can't really agree here tbh. Labour have contested the processes of Brexit, but rarely the principles. By, at various points, ruling out single market membership, the existing customs union and the free movement of people, the debate has been around exactly what version of hard brexit is best, not whether we should have it at all. There's never been a serious push in Parliament by Labour for a soft Brexit and certainly no serious threat of trying to invoke a second referendum. The Remain vote has no meaningful voice in Parliament and as such Theresa May has been able to act like they don't exist.
 
EwanI Ted said:
Can't really agree here tbh. Labour have contested the processes of Brexit, but rarely the principles. By, at various points, ruling out single market membership, the existing customs union and the free movement of people, the debate has been around exactly what version of hard brexit is best, not whether we should have it at all. There's never been a serious push in Parliament by Labour for a soft Brexit and certainly no serious threat of trying to invoke a second referendum. The Remain vote has no meaningful voice in Parliament and as such Theresa May has been able to act like they don't exist.
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I disagree about soft brexit, Labours position is very much that but that's a matter of opinion.

On the remain side I'd agree but I've long said it would be about the right time to push it and that had to be when all else failed i.e now. Even the Peoples Vote have pushed that principle. There's not been the numbers for a new referendum and won't be til there's desperation
 
Smores said:
I disagree about soft brexit, Labours position is very much that but that's a matter of opinion.

On the remain side I'd agree but I've long said it would be about the right time to push it and that had to be when all else failed i.e now. Even the Peoples Vote have pushed that principle. There's not been the numbers for a new referendum and won't be til there's desperation
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Soft brexit is certainly a matter of perspective, but during the referendum campaign Labour's position would not have been called soft Brexit. Its a measure of how far we've travelled that it is considered as such by some.

Not sure that's a fair comment about the People's Vote. Last week they said wasnt the right time when TIG tabled a bill, but that was just talking about the events of last week. Their initial roadmap makes it clear that its the sooner the better and likewise they make it clear that the process has to begin long in advance of the end of March 2019 in order to handle the legislation required. If Labour were serious about suggesting a PV, they've long since missed the bus.
 
Sweet Square said:
Er.....ok . I image the daily mail and the sun are against Corbyn because of he's ''gaffs''. Also most people get their tv news from the 10 min BBC news program.

It might be a shock to you but most aren't having sky news pumped Kubrick style into their eyes 24 hours a day.
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I've no idea, I didn't watch Sky News yesterday but had a look /glance at CNN and a few newspapers and they all had the story within a very short time.
 
EwanI Ted said:
Soft brexit is certainly a matter of perspective, but during the referendum campaign Labour's position would not have been called soft Brexit. Its a measure of how far we've travelled that it is considered as such by some.

Not sure that's a fair comment about the People's Vote. Last week they said wasnt the right time when TIG tabled a bill, but that was just talking about the events of last week. Their initial roadmap makes it clear that its the sooner the better and likewise they make it clear that the process has to begin long in advance of the end of March 2019 in order to handle the legislation required. If Labour were serious about suggesting a PV, they've long since missed the bus.
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indeed - as much as May has run the clock down to make it a my deal or no deal decision equally Corbyn has put off actively following up on the promise of backing a second vote until its too late (possibly a ratification referendum though thats as likley to be leave with no deal or mays deal as it is to have remain or a softer brexit option on the ballot)
 
EwanI Ted said:
Soft brexit is certainly a matter of perspective, but during the referendum campaign Labour's position would not have been called soft Brexit. Its a measure of how far we've travelled that it is considered as such by some.

Not sure that's a fair comment about the People's Vote. Last week they said wasnt the right time when TIG tabled a bill, but that was just talking about the events of last week. Their initial roadmap makes it clear that its the sooner the better and likewise they make it clear that the process has to begin long in advance of the end of March 2019 in order to handle the legislation required. If Labour were serious about suggesting a PV, they've long since missed the bus.
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There's still no actual clarity as to what Corbyn's position is on Brexit. He sort of supports a soft Brexit in that he won't rule out the customs union, but he also keeps hinting he'd maybe support a PV without actually declaring said support, while also hinting sometimes he'd like to negotiate a new customs union even though the EU have said this isn't happening.
 
Who advises this halfwit?

It’s actually incredible how incompetent he and his entourage are. Any wanker with a brain cell could have figured the response to walking out of a meeting with Ummuna would result in the response: ‘well, you’ll sit and talk to Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA.’

It’s depressing how terrible Labour are at playing politics. It’s as if there is no interest in actually getting people back inside. Even Labour voters that would never vote any other way.
 
Kag said:
Who advises this halfwit?

It’s actually incredible how incompetent he and his entourage are. Any wanker with a brain cell could have figured the response to walking out of a meeting with Ummuna would result in the response: ‘well, you’ll sit and talk to Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA.’

It’s depressing how terrible Labour are at playing politics. It’s as if there is no interest in actually getting people back inside. Even Labour voters that would never vote any other way.
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Someone will be along shortly to remind you that it was May who called the meeting and its all her fault because she knew Corbyn would kick off, forgetting that if that really was her intention, he fell for it hook line and sinker.
 
Kag said:
Who advises this halfwit?

It’s actually incredible how incompetent he and his entourage are. Any wanker with a brain cell could have figured the response to walking out of a meeting with Ummuna would result in the response: ‘well, you’ll sit and talk to Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA.’

It’s depressing how terrible Labour are at playing politics. It’s as if there is no interest in actually getting people back inside. Even Labour voters that would never vote any other way.
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Actually, the response across social media pretty unanimously shows that the public agree with Corbyn on this and think Chuka is a vacuous attention seeker.

Sometimes the truth is so obvious that even the great British public sees it. Well, most of them.
 
sun_tzu said:
indeed - as much as May has run the clock down to make it a my deal or no deal decision equally Corbyn has put off actively following up on the promise of backing a second vote until its too late (possibly a ratification referendum though thats as likley to be leave with no deal or mays deal as it is to have remain or a softer brexit option on the ballot)
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Corbyn never promised to back a second vote. When faced with numerous demonstrations calling for one at the Labour conference he eventually and reluctantly promised 'not to rule one out'. And his supporters swallowed it.
 
Cheesy said:
There's still no actual clarity as to what Corbyn's position is on Brexit. He sort of supports a soft Brexit in that he won't rule out the customs union, but he also keeps hinting he'd maybe support a PV without actually declaring said support, while also hinting sometimes he'd like to negotiate a new customs union even though the EU have said this isn't happening.
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"I reiterate our support for a public vote, not as political point scoring but as a realistic option to beat the deadlock.” I mean this was a few days ago.....
 
sun_tzu said:
Is that before or after he whipped labour MP's not to vote for it?
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It was after the Peoples Votes put out a statement asking MPs to abstain....

Maybe he should have ignored them though and cooperated with the TIG in spearheading a premature effort that definitely wasn't just self promotion
 
Smores said:
"I reiterate our support for a public vote, not as political point scoring but as a realistic option to beat the deadlock.” I mean this was a few days ago.....
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He's continually been shifting his position since the start of the process though. Until he's actually voting for a public vote there's no reason to believe he won't again.
 
Smores said:
It was after the Peoples Votes put out a statement asking MPs to abstain....

Maybe he should have ignored them though and cooperated with the TIG in spearheading a premature effort that definitely wasn't just self promotion
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I think he would have struggled to cooperate with them without going all mean girls

I expect a full on meltdown if he has to cooperate with Blair on a peoples vote
 
Nuts said:
Actually, the response across social media pretty unanimously shows that the public agree with Corbyn on this and think Chuka is a vacuous attention seeker.

Sometimes the truth is so obvious that even the great British public sees it. Well, most of them.
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Except it isn’t unanimous in the slightest. You’re referring to a few tweets you’ve seen - presumably by people you take interest in listening to. Ummuna is generally seen to be a numpty but let’s not pretend that the reaction to Corbyn hasn’t been at all critical. It has.
 
Nuts said:
Actually, the response across social media pretty unanimously shows that the public agree with Corbyn on this and think Chuka is a vacuous attention seeker.

Sometimes the truth is so obvious that even the great British public sees it. Well, most of them.
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Hehe. An echo chamber in action...
 
Nuts said:
Actually, the response across social media pretty unanimously shows that the public agree with Corbyn on this and think Chuka is a vacuous attention seeker.

Sometimes the truth is so obvious that even the great British public sees it. Well, most of them.
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Er, no it doesn't. There was a lot of criticism for Corbyn on twitter.
 
I think he was correct to flounce. Not just because Chukka is not a leader but May refused to budge therefore it was all a waste of time..
 

Weird that their plans seem to so consistently coincide with anti-Brexit marches/protests.
 
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