Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Kentonio said:
Always the big flaw with libertarianism. It never actually stands up to history in any way. It’s just some fantasy ideology about how great things would be if people could do whatever they wanted (and also not actually act like people at the same time).
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I guess its nice people are into something, maybe ? But yeah its a complete fantasy.
 
Kentonio said:
Always the big flaw with libertarianism. It never actually stands up to history in any way. It’s just some fantasy ideology about how great things would be if people could do whatever they wanted (and also not actually act like people at the same time).
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True. Thatcher said there is no such thing as society. Except there is, it's how the world is organised, people rely on others in countless ways to get the things done that they depend on. Even if they don't know it.
 
finneh said:
We've had this discussion before. That business wouldn't exist (certainly not for any length of time) as I wouldn't buy from them and I'm assuming you wouldn't and 99% of the public wouldn't either. I'd advocate for no-one else to buy from them and also advocate for the right of anyone to protest at their existence. Likewise I'd bring the restaurant to the attention of the press who would provide wholesale negative coverage.

Therefore it's clearly a fatuous question as the illegality of it has no bearing on its existence. I think the best way to punish ignorant idiots is for them to lose a portion of their wealth by remaining true to their own stupid ideology. Others might feel a slap on the wrist from big brother is the correct way but in my opinion with my method they learn the stupidity of their actions
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Wait... I get it now... Are you the geriatric evil CEO from a 1980s life-swap comedy?
 
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Sassy Colin said:
John McDonnell, in his infinite wisdom, said on BBC Breakfast this morning that the backstop wasn't even a big issue for Labour. :wenger:
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He’s not lying. Labour wanted closer integration and had no issues with the backstop. Their main sticking points were Health & Environmental alignment and Workers Rights. Although one suspects it’s mostly because it was a Tory deal
 
MadMike said:
He’s not lying. Labour wanted closer integration and had no issues with the backstop. Their main sticking points were Health & Environmental alignment and Workers Rights. Although one suspects it’s mostly because it was a Tory deal
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indeed whenever they say :
we have to stop a damaging tory brexit,
it always sounds like the emphasis is on:
we have to stop a damaging TORY brexit

suspect they will install a 3 line whip to vote against the boris deal - some will ignore anyway (perhaps 5 or 6?) I think and then labour will be on around 238mps... rapidly approaching ed miliband teritiory
 
711 said:
True. Thatcher said there is no such thing as society. Except there is, it's how the world is organised, people rely on others in countless ways to get the things done that they depend on. Even if they don't know it.
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That is kind of the point she was making. The full quote: "If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate."

She was describing society but as a network of mutual relationships based on personal responsibility, rather than society being an arm of government (I think). Personally, I think it was a bit one-eyed but I don't think her view was quite as nihilistic as has been made out.
 
nickm said:
That is kind of the point she was making. The full quote: "If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate."

She was describing society but as a network of mutual relationships based on personal responsibility, rather than society being an arm of government (I think). Personally, I think it was a bit one-eyed but I don't think her view was quite as nihilistic as has been made out.
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Thanks. Was she not basically saying it's up to people to be charitable then? Leaving an awful lot of holes and cracks for the unfortunate, as she puts it, to fall in to, often through no fault of their own? Not such a beautiful tapestry for them then. It does go to the heart of whether you lean to left or right though, I suppose.
 
711 said:
Thanks. Was she not basically saying it's up to people to be charitable then? Leaving an awful lot of holes and cracks for the unfortunate, as she puts it, to fall in to, often through no fault of their own? Not such a beautiful tapestry for them then. It does go to the heart of whether you lean to left or right though, I suppose.
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context
"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." – in an interview in Women's Own in 1987
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Kentonio said:
Always the big flaw with libertarianism. It never actually stands up to history in any way. It’s just some fantasy ideology about how great things would be if people could do whatever they wanted (and also not actually act like people at the same time).
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In terms of libertarian economies the two most libertarian which were pre-China Hong Kong and Singapore both were/are very successful, especially given their regions. It's like any political ideology though, there's a spectrum. The most extreme form of libertarianism (anarchism) for example is similar to communism in that it would and could never work.

I think historically the correct political term for laissez faire economics combined with maximum civil liberties, with government big enough to protect its citizens but small enough for citizens not to be coerced by government in every facet of their lives; would be liberalism rather than libertarianism. However most people that define themselves as liberals (as I do) are (mis)interpreted as supporting Liberal Democrat policy, which is not the case. So I suppose I'm agreeing with you in the sense that the purest and most extreme form of libertarianism (anarchism), just like and other political view (e.g. socialism), is a fantasy ideology.
 
sun_tzu said:
indeed whenever they say :
we have to stop a damaging tory brexit,
it always sounds like the emphasis is on:
we have to stop a damaging TORY brexit

suspect they will install a 3 line whip to vote against the boris deal - some will ignore anyway (perhaps 5 or 6?) I think and then labour will be on around 238mps... rapidly approaching ed miliband teritiory
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Some MPs have already come out saying they want to vote for the deal but senior Labour figures are pressuring them to abstain.
 
sun_tzu said:
context
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Interestingly, in case you are a nerd about such things, that famous quote, in the original text, was different. Here's what it was in the original Woman's Own piece:

"so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first."

The 'no such thing as society' phrase was used further down. Source.
 
Harry Harries said:
WhatsApp was fundamental in electing the president in one of the world’s largest countries (Bolsanaro).
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And the PM of the world's largest electoral democracy (Modi).

But the level of domination and pure propaganda that Modi's party had on whatsapp will be almost impossible for momentum to match i think.
 
esmufc07 said:
The WhatsApp group will defeat the media moguls Steve!
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I’m confused, is the idea that millions of people all join one WhatsApp group chat? How does that work? Do you just get about a billion notifications a minute from all the people sending messages at once, or are only the group owners allowed to post messages?
 
nickm said:
Like I said, there's been some People's Vote stuff, which you helpfully listed.
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Its not just some stuff. To the people votes credit they've been while organised but it hasn't made a difference.



So now what ?
 
Sweet Square said:
Its not just some stuff. To the people votes credit they've been while organised but it hasn't made a difference.



So now what ?
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When you consider the fact that there are reportedly some Remainers who ultimately feel the result has to be expected at all costs, I'd argue Remain edging it isn't an awful result for them at the most since revoke hasn't explicitly been backed by either of the two parties. The idea of even considering it a couple of years ago would've seemed unpalatable - but if the above figures are true Labour, for example, would almost certainly be campaigning for it in any vote.
 
Where's Jeremy Corbyn....

Would have expected him alongside thornberry McDonald and starmer at the people's vote march... After all isn't a referendum labours official policy
So... Where's Jeremy Corbyn
 
From a Modi WhatsApp group:

United Kingdom is made of four Countries :
1. England
2. British captured Scotland
3. British captured Northern Ireland
4. British captured Wales
If you did not know this...... no problem.... . But you know it now.... Educate others too!

#BBC

Please keep on sharing this untill That bloody BBC stops referring to our own Kashmir as India occupied Kashmir.
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