Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

jeff_goldblum said:
I think I spoke about this in the aftermath of the election, but demographics are a big unspoken factor in why my area (County Durham) has gone from Labour stronghold to electoral battleground over the last 2 decades. The area has been haemorrhaging young people for decades, probably half the people I went to school with in Durham have moved away since. On top of that, the last decade or so has seen an explosion of Newcastle commuter belt housing and retirement communities in and around post-industrial areas.

I'm not sure how the party can get round this under FPTP. People on both wings of the party can talk all they want about how to 'win back the heartlands' and blame each other (with some merit on both sides) for losing traditional Labour voters, but the fact is that the heartlands they're talking about don't really exist anymore.
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Thanks for that, I’ve read about the shifting demographic but it’s nice to hear a first-hand account of it.

Yeah I agree Labour is really in a tough place right now. The narrative that Corbyn is solely to blame for 2019 is dangerous because it’s simply untrue and Starmer, simply by shifting closer to the centre ground and been a more palatable mainstream figure, is not going to gain the votes that people seem to think he will.
 
BobbyManc said:
To put it simply the demographic in a lot of traditional Labour seats has been changing - younger people moving away, leaving greater concentrations of old white people. Culture and education are now bigger determinants of how someone votes than class. So with its traditional base no longer reliable Labour are challengeable in seats like Bolsover - but they can win previously unthinkable Tory seats like Canterbury as in 2017 and 2019.
Nandy seems the most likely to appeal in the ‘Red Wall’ areas that have been atrophying for some years now, purely because she’s the most skilful candidate and the most willing to pander to the views of Labour’s increasingly lost demographic e.g. has spoken of ‘legitimate concerns’ about immigration.
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I agree with the first part, but not the second. I like Nandy but don't think she's (yet) the figure to win back the 'Red Wall' either. A couple of key errors in the contest - signing the trans pledge, and saying she would support freedom of movement, which seems at odds with her wish to pander to this lost demographic (of older white voters). She's an excellent speaker though, very good at empathising with people, and I'm sure will be much more of an asset to Starmer than dross like Burgon and Abbott were to Corbyn.
nickm said:
I like Nandy but I think there are important steps that come before that. in Starmer you have someone with the perfect background to hold the government to account and perhaps rebuild labour's reputation for competence and being on the detail. For now, Labour need to get good at opposition.
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Agreed, and I think this is the best we can hope for at this point.
 
Nice to see him loosing another election

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...rty-keir-starmer-latest-council-of-Europe/amp

Impressively this time there was 8 places and ten candidates and he still lost

JERMEY CORBYN has lost out on a ballot to represent the Labour Party on its delegation to the Council of Europe.

The former Labour Party leader failed to be selected as one of the eight Parliamentary Labour Party members to represent the party on its delegation to the Council of Europe. There were 10 applicants and eight places.
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Personally I'm glad he's not representing labour in Europe
 
esmufc07 said:
Getting his excuses in

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Asked by MEE whether he believed that the lack of independence he described would shape the EHRC’s upcoming report on Labour antisemitism, Corbyn reportedly replied: “Let’s see what happens.”

Commenting on the remarks, a Labour spokesperson said: “We fully respect the independence of the EHRC. Keir Starmer has made clear he will cooperate fully with the Commission’s inquiry. We will implement, in full, any recommendations made by the EHRC.”


In response, the party-affiliated Jewish Labour Movement said: “Claiming that the EHRC is part of the government ‘machine’ is a conspiracy theory. Questioning the rights of Jews to call out antisemitism is victimisation.

“We have always maintained that a fully independent organisation such as the EHRC, with statutory powers to compel witness testimony and obtain documents, was the only way to reach the truth of the scale of Labour’s antisemitism problems.

“With the EHRC’s final judgement imminent, it’s unsurprising that the Leader who oversaw the Labour Party’s moral descent into a culture of causal anti-Jewish racism is scared about what it might find.”

Labour MP Margaret Hodge, who called Corbyn a racist when he was leader, tweeted: “What a ridiculous [and] dangerous conspiracy theory for a Member of Parliament to start spreading.”
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Basically corbyns argument is its independent if it does not show be to be an antisemite... otherwise its a government conspiracy

At least he's not blamed the Jews directly (yet)
 
sun_tzu said:
Did you watch the whole thing...
You know the bit where she tweeted about corbyns labour and antisemitism
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I sure did. Odd that some people citing concerns is a conspiracy theory and others passed by months ago without you batting an eyelid.

I also read the bit in the article you posted where Corbyn didn't talk about the investigation. You know, the thing you managed to turn into him claiming a government conspiracy. Once again, you pretending to be concerned about something you've just done yourself - I can see why you usually just post about Burgon.
 
Dobba said:


Bloody conspiracy theorists.
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Good thread here too. The government appoints figures to the EHRC - on what planet are we going go pretend for the sake of bashing Corbyn that is compatible with claims of its independence?
And nor is it a mutually exclusive belief to think that Corbyn’s leadership made failings on anti-Semitism AND the EHRC is not the independent and unbiased body that people want to champion it as.
And there is the notable example that its former chairman Trevor Phillips has a very problematic history of Islamophobia himself, so let’s not pretend this is a body impervious to malign influences, especially given its ongoing refusal to investigate the Tory party for such well-documented prejudices.
 
Dobba said:
I sure did. Odd that some people citing concerns is a conspiracy theory and others passed by months ago without you batting an eyelid.

I also read the bit in the article you posted where Corbyn didn't talk about the investigation. You know, the thing you managed to turn into him claiming a government conspiracy. Once again, you pretending to be concerned about something you've just done yourself - I can see why you usually just post about Burgon.
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In fairness, he obsessively posts about Corbyn in a Tourette's style manner too.
 
Corbyn slams the elite offensive that snatched change away from Britain, in a powerful new interview

 
Lots of rumours on Twitter that he’s going to have the whip removed following the recommendations in the EHRC report.

Obviously needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
 
esmufc07 said:
Lots of rumours on Twitter that he’s going to have the whip removed following the recommendations in the EHRC report.

Obviously needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Would be a disaster for Labour and would split the party. But it would be great to watch it all blow up...
 
The report can suggest whatever it wants, Starmer will just agree with whatever the Tories think should happen
 
esmufc07 said:
Lots of rumours on Twitter that he’s going to have the whip removed following the recommendations in the EHRC report.

Obviously needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
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The amount of damage he and his cronies have done to the Labour party is enormous. Would not be surprised to see him lose the whip. The man is a disaster.
 
Unless there's something really damning in that report like actual anti-semtism from Corbyn then it's a total own goal from Labour.
 
I really hope they do it because it will split the party and it's what the centre-left deserve.

The payout to the "whistle-blowers" is bad enough. Sam Matthews who, according to leaked report, obstructed anti-semitism disciplinary procedures to damage the party gets a payout and an apology. Ridiculous.
 
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esmufc07 said:
Lots of rumours on Twitter that he’s going to have the whip removed following the recommendations in the EHRC report.

Obviously needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
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the EHRC report would normally be sent to Labour about a month before its published so they may have a copy... thing is the factions in labour are so hostile to each other Id be shocked if they could prevent the report from leaking - that said I see they are also looking to pay an out of court settlement with the whistlebowers who went on panorama as well so they may be looking into damage control measures from the report and chucking corbyn under the bus has always seemed the most likley outcome to me - partially because it enables them to move on - mostly because some of the antisemitic stuff that seemed to be allowed was awful and it got so much worse under his watch / leadership
 
sun_tzu said:
the EHRC report would normally be sent to Labour about a month before its published so they may have a copy... thing is the factions in labour are so hostile to each other Id be shocked if they could prevent the report from leaking - that said I see they are also looking to pay an out of court settlement with the whistlebowers who went on panorama as well so they may be looking into damage control measures from the report and chucking corbyn under the bus has always seemed the most likley outcome to me - partially because it enables them to move on - mostly because some of the antisemitic stuff that seemed to be allowed was awful and it got so much worse under his watch / leadership
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Reminder that the Panorama documentary was made by a journalist who took a paid trip to Israel organised by the World Women’s International Zionist Organization
 
Untied said:
Reminder that the Panorama documentary was made by a journalist who took a paid trip to Israel organised by the World Women’s International Zionist Organization
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Doesn't mean the investigation was incorrect or misleading. If the evidence is there it's there. The report will make interesting reading.
 
balaks said:
Doesn't mean the investigation was incorrect or misleading. If the evidence is there it's there. The report will make interesting reading.
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the fact that the people involved have sued the labour party for libel and now labour are now ready to make a public apology in high court actively suggests the evidence was not incorrect or misleading
 
sun_tzu said:
the fact that the people involved have sued the labour party for libel and now labour are now ready to make a public apology in high court actively suggests the evidence was not incorrect or misleading
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Yes there is definitely no political motivations at play here. Just an extremely normal settlement to a legal case that they knew they couldn't win. Definitely.
 
EwanI Ted said:
Would be a disaster for Labour and would split the party. But it would be great to watch it all blow up...
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Short term yes, but long term it would be good. They need to rip the bandage off and rebuild. Labour is only ever going backwards whilst people like him are in their ranks.
 
Untied said:
We know the documentary is misleading thanks to the leaked emails. Sam Matthews lied on camera and gets an apology and a payout.
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Court listings suggest statements by lawyers representing the Labour Party are due to be read out in open court in the cases of seven whistle-blowers and also that of John Ware, the Panorama reporter who also sued the party after Labour said he had deliberately set out to mislead viewers.
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funny Labour are standing up in court admitting it wasnt deliberately misleading - you know based on an actual court case and evidence
well labour except corbyn, formby and milne... but fingers crossed they wont be labour soon either
 
Starmer seems to be doing a good job so far of righting the Labour ship and getting rid of some of the people who nearly sunk the party.
 
sun_tzu said:
funny Labour are standing up in court admitting it wasnt deliberately misleading - you know based on an actual court case and evidence
well labour except corbyn, formby and milne... but fingers crossed they wont be labour soon either
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Are you going to engage with the issue that we literally have leaked emails from one of the people who is getting a payout showing that what they said in the documentary was false… or are we just going to pretend that this politically motivated court settlement is the end of the matter?
 
Untied said:
Are you going to engage with the issue that we literally have leaked emails from one of the people who is getting a payout showing that what they said in the documentary was false… or are we just going to pretend that this politically motivated court settlement is the end of the matter?
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You know the answer to that.

It's apparently irrelevant that Labour were advised they'd win the case. The settlement looks a lot more like payment to me.
 
Untied said:
Are you going to engage with the issue that we literally have leaked emails from one of the people who is getting a payout showing that what they said in the documentary was false… or are we just going to pretend that this politically motivated court settlement is the end of the matter?
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No I think its only the start of the prosecutions coming labour and corbyns way over antisemitism
I reject the ascertain that this is a politically motivated court decision - unless you have evidence as to the courts corruption which i agree would be a bigger issue (I asume you have evidence as you have just published the allegations?)
I also reject as do labour that there was deliberate misrepresentation in the panorama documentary - though if you wish to repeat those allegations please do so knowing that you will probably be committing libel on this board yourself so feel free to tag his lawyers into your allegations and you might want to give the owner of the cafe the heads up as well
 
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11101 said:
Short term yes, but long term it would be good. They need to rip the bandage off and rebuild. Labour is only ever going backwards whilst people like him are in their ranks.
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So what is your idea of Labour going forwards.
 
Drifter said:
So what is your idea of Labour going forwards.
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Kneeling for the cameras and then paying money to people who've targetted the most abused MP in the country and then bragged about it in internal emails.
sun_tzu said:
I reject the ascertain that this is a politically motivated court decision - unless you have evidence as to the courts corruption
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Ah, that patented sun_tzu "I've definitely read the story" expertise in all its glory.
 
sun_tzu said:
No I think its only the start of the prosecutions coming labour and corbyns way over antisemitism
I reject the ascertain that this is a politically motivated court decision - unless you have evidence as to the courts corruption which i agree would be a bigger issue (I asume you have evidence as you have just published the allegations?)
I also reject as do labour that there was deliberate misrepresentation in the panorama documentary - though if you wish to repeat those allegations please do so knowing that you will probably be committing libel on this board yourself so feel free to tag his lawyers into your allegations and you might want to give the owner of the cafe the heads up as well
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What are you on about with court corruption? Labour have decided to settle, what corruption do you think that entails?

Also what a load of absolute nonsense this post is especially given the posters record.
 
Smores said:
What are you on about with court corruption? Labour have decided to settle, what corruption do you think that entails?

Also what a load of absolute nonsense this post is especially given the posters record.
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I dont - the person I quoted repeated libel allegations and suggested the court made a political decision - which would be corrupt -
 
sun_tzu said:
I dont - the person I quoted repeated libel allegations and suggested the court made a political decision - which would be corrupt -
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They literally mentioned a court settlement. You even managed to stick it in bold type when you quoted it, ignored the word settlement and invented a conspiracy theory (out of absolutely nothing) that you then alleged they believed in but had no evidence for.
 
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