Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

sun_tzu said:
Probably would have been better to set up the independent complaints process the EHRC demanded and let them deal with this issue
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So you want Starmer to delay all complaints and suspension hearings whilst this independent body is setup?

I get they want Corbyn's blood for apparently hurting all British Jews as they say but the fact they start that by saying Corbyn has personal responsibility for breaches of EHRC and then finish it by saying Starmer should politically intervene to suspend Corbyn probably sums it up.
 
Smores said:
So you want Starmer to delay all complaints and suspension hearings whilst this independent body is setup?
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I guess it depends how quickly they can set it up but i think given its one of the EHRC recommendations then yes I think that's something that should be implemented ASAP and Im assuming they can have that up and running in a few weeks or at the latest in the new year and that seems a reasonable time frame I think.

I think anything other than an independent process is ultimately going to be tarnished with accusations of factionalism so if that means people stay suspended for a few more weeks then its probably better to wait - plus I suspect any decisions made between now and then will all be appealed anyway given the EHRC said the current processes needed to be changed
 
sun_tzu said:
I guess it depends how quickly they can set it up but i think given its one of the EHRC recommendations then yes I think that's something that should be implemented ASAP and Im assuming they can have that up and running in a few weeks or at the latest in the new year and that seems a reasonable time frame I think.

I think anything other than an independent process is ultimately going to be tarnished with accusations of factionalism so if that means people stay suspended for a few more weeks then its probably better to wait - plus I suspect any decisions made between now and then will all be appealed anyway given the EHRC said the current processes needed to be changed
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Not saying you're wrong but i can't imagine the party would be able to keep someone under suspension or delay complaints whilst this is setup. I think as you say it's more likely you'd review cases and allow appeals.

I don't actually think the NEC was ever identified by the EHRC as an unsuitable body. The entire report mainly calls out that it needs to be independent of LOTO and that any oversight/audit is fully independent.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I swear they over complicate this shit.

“Jeremy is a key member of the Labour Party and his record speaks for itself. The party disagrees with some of his positions but welcomes his views, always”

‘Party Line’ is so fcuking stupid.
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Indeed it does. Not since the 1930s has a Labour party candidate done so badly in a general election.

The sooner they get rid of the characters of his ilk the sooner the country can get a decent opposition in place again.
 
11101 said:
Indeed it does. Not since the 1930s has a Labour party candidate done so badly in a general election.

The sooner they get rid of the characters of his ilk the sooner the country can get a decent opposition in place again.
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Corbyn deciding the lived experience of this country would see an average prosperity level that no PM has delivered.

He’s flawed. I don’t even like him all that much. But he would deliver better outcomes than most of us.
 
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/one-academics-bid-to-undermine-the-fight-against-antisemitism/

Now he has authored an article in The Guardian stating his opposition to calls by the Government on universities to adopt the Definition – a cause CAA has championed along with the Union of Jewish Students, Lord Mann, the Jewish Leadership Council, the Board of Deputies, the Community Security Trust and every other mainstream Jewish organisation and activist. There are few issues that unite our community like this one, and it is telling that Prof. Feldman – as with the Chakrabarti Inquiry – finds himself at odds with the mainstream community.

Prof. Feldman’s criticisms of the definition are familiar: he fears it will “privilege one group over others” and believes it is “no substitute for carefully constructed measures to combat antisemitism and other racisms.”

But to fight antisemitism we must define it, especially given its unique complexity. That was why we, along with Lord Pickles and others, campaigned so forcefully over many meetings in Downing Street for the British Government to adopt it. It was also thanks to the International Definition that our 2019 Antisemitism Barometer – which took into account the full range of examples of antisemitism in the Definition – was the first empirical study to reveal that antisemitism on the far-left had surpassed that on the far-right.

The Pears Institute for the Study of Antisemitism at Birkbeck should not be lending its credibility to a man who does so much to hinder the fight against antisemitism.
 
berbatrick said:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/one-academics-bid-to-undermine-the-fight-against-antisemitism/

Now he has authored an article in The Guardian stating his opposition to calls by the Government on universities to adopt the Definition – a cause CAA has championed along with the Union of Jewish Students, Lord Mann, the Jewish Leadership Council, the Board of Deputies, the Community Security Trust and every other mainstream Jewish organisation and activist. There are few issues that unite our community like this one, and it is telling that Prof. Feldman – as with the Chakrabarti Inquiry – finds himself at odds with the mainstream community.

Prof. Feldman’s criticisms of the definition are familiar: he fears it will “privilege one group over others” and believes it is “no substitute for carefully constructed measures to combat antisemitism and other racisms.”

But to fight antisemitism we must define it, especially given its unique complexity. That was why we, along with Lord Pickles and others, campaigned so forcefully over many meetings in Downing Street for the British Government to adopt it. It was also thanks to the International Definition that our 2019 Antisemitism Barometer – which took into account the full range of examples of antisemitism in the Definition – was the first empirical study to reveal that antisemitism on the far-left had surpassed that on the far-right.

The Pears Institute for the Study of Antisemitism at Birkbeck should not be lending its credibility to a man who does so much to hinder the fight against antisemitism.
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Are you endorsing that article?
 
berbatrick said:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/one-academics-bid-to-undermine-the-fight-against-antisemitism/

Now he has authored an article in The Guardian stating his opposition to calls by the Government on universities to adopt the Definition – a cause CAA has championed along with the Union of Jewish Students, Lord Mann, the Jewish Leadership Council, the Board of Deputies, the Community Security Trust and every other mainstream Jewish organisation and activist. There are few issues that unite our community like this one, and it is telling that Prof. Feldman – as with the Chakrabarti Inquiry – finds himself at odds with the mainstream community.

Prof. Feldman’s criticisms of the definition are familiar: he fears it will “privilege one group over others” and believes it is “no substitute for carefully constructed measures to combat antisemitism and other racisms.”

But to fight antisemitism we must define it, especially given its unique complexity. That was why we, along with Lord Pickles and others, campaigned so forcefully over many meetings in Downing Street for the British Government to adopt it. It was also thanks to the International Definition that our 2019 Antisemitism Barometer – which took into account the full range of examples of antisemitism in the Definition – was the first empirical study to reveal that antisemitism on the far-left had surpassed that on the far-right.

The Pears Institute for the Study of Antisemitism at Birkbeck should not be lending its credibility to a man who does so much to hinder the fight against antisemitism.
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Gideon Falter is a fecking flog.
 


Announcement by corbyn on Sunday about a new project... hopefully he's feking off to a new party... but who knows he might tactfully suggest a final solution to the antisemitism problems in labour or trot out another faux apology

His pr is as good as ever though making an announcement on the day a decision will be announced about brexit... then no doubt it will be the right wing media (probably being controlled by some secret rich illuminati nudge nudge wink ) to blame for not making his announcement front page news
 
sun_tzu said:
Announcement by corbyn on Sunday about a new project... hopefully he's feking off to a new party... but who knows he might tactfully suggest a final solution to the antisemitism problems in labour or trot out another faux apology
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You enjoy this, do you?
 
Synco said:
You enjoy this, do you?
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Corbyn leaving the party... yeah I'd like that
More of his crap on antisemitism I hope not
I mean perhaps he's going to accept the ehrc report though I doubt it and I think another statement causing offence is more likley

859872_1.jpg
 
sun_tzu said:
Corbyn leaving the party... yeah I'd like that
More of his crap on antisemitism I hope not
I mean perhaps he's going to accept the ehrc report though I doubt it and I think another statement causing offence is more likley
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I meant the final solution "quip".
 
Synco said:
I meant the final solution "quip".
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Simply quoting the labour friends of Palestine (of which corbyn is a member) who proposed ending Israeli occupation with a final solution and pointing out that the lefts messaging on antisemitism has been at best clumsy though disingenuous bordering on inflamitory would seem a better fit ... including corbyns faux apology
859872_1.jpg
 
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sun_tzu said:
Simply quoting the labour friends of Palestine who proposed ending Israeli occupation with a final solution and pointing out that the lefts messaging on antisemitism has been at best clumsy though disingenuous bordering on inflamitory would seem a better fit ... including corbyns faux apology
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I think you know exactly what I mean. But it's a waste of time arguing with a seasoned troll.
 
sun_tzu said:
Announcement by corbyn on Sunday about a new project... hopefully he's feking off to a new party... but who knows he might tactfully suggest a final solution to the antisemitism problems in labour or trot out another faux apology

His pr is as good as ever though making an announcement on the day a decision will be announced about brexit... then no doubt it will be the right wing media (probably being controlled by some secret rich illuminati nudge nudge wink ) to blame for not making his announcement front page news
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Careful, you don't want Niall to have to deal with slander and libel. You are not so subtly accusing a national political figure of wanting to genocide the Jews. You're usually so worried about slander and libel, after all.
 
nimic said:
Careful, you don't want Niall to have to deal with slander and libel. You are not so subtly accusing a national political figure of wanting to genocide the Jews. You're usually so worried about slander and libel, after all.
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I'm accusing him of being a member of a group who has publicly called for that already actually... even though that's notbwhat they actually meant but they and him are just that shit at public messaging
 
sun_tzu said:
I'm accusing him of being a member of a group who has publicly called for that already actually... even though that's notbwhat they actually meant but they and him are just that shit at public messaging
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So in the second part of this sentence you admit that they didn't mean it, but in the first part of the sentence you say you are accusing him of supporting "that" (i.e. Jewish genocide)? You're not exactly a public messaging expert yourself.

Point is, you're trying to be coy about it, but really you're just a boring WUM.
 
sun_tzu said:


Announcement by corbyn on Sunday about a new project... hopefully he's feking off to a new party... but who knows he might tactfully suggest a final solution to the antisemitism problems in labour or trot out another faux apology

His pr is as good as ever though making an announcement on the day a decision will be announced about brexit... then no doubt it will be the right wing media (probably being controlled by some secret rich illuminati nudge nudge wink ) to blame for not making his announcement front page news
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I've never known anyone misjudge content as much as you do. Seriously, find a more appropriate tone.
 
sun_tzu said:
Simply quoting the labour friends of Palestine (of which corbyn is a member) who proposed ending Israeli occupation with a final solution and pointing out that the lefts messaging on antisemitism has been at best clumsy though disingenuous bordering on inflamitory would seem a better fit ... including corbyns faux apology
859872_1.jpg
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If you think this car crash of a post justifies your talk of a final solution in your previous post then you are deluded. Totally inappropriate.

93 MPs are supporters, not members, of this group. Some are what you would even consider centrist Labour MPs.
https://www.lfpme.org/supporters/page/5

Funny how you try to make a post from this group all about Corbyn. Did you get that screenshot from Guido?
 
Looking like Corbyn and McDonnell will be getting their Brexit, but one where the EU has the say on subsidy and state aid. Not the Brexit they wanted then. Thanks for the contribution gents.
 
711 said:
Looking like Corbyn and McDonnell will be getting their Brexit, but one where the EU has the say on subsidy and state aid. Not the Brexit they wanted then. Thanks for the contribution gents.
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Nonsensical post, considering Corbyn campaigned for remain and also a second referendum at the 2019 GE if you recall. At which point remain was never going to happen otherwise the Liberal Democrats wouldn't have withered and died.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Nonsensical post, considering Corbyn campaigned for remain and also a second referendum at the 2019 GE if you recall. At which point remain was never going to happen otherwise the Liberal Democrats wouldn't have withered and died.
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Right, who could forget Corbyn's spirited and relentless campaign for Remain in the referendum :lol: or the way he decisively formulated Labour's 2019 EU policy, almost as if he hadn't tried to prevent debate on a second referendum at the party conference at all. You're in denial, but I'm happy for you to keep drawing attention to it.

As for the Liberals you're right, a shame as if people had voted for them we wouldn't have left, but that was their choice of course.
 
Weird time to be thinking about and blaming Corbyn considering who is in charge.
 
Shamwow said:
Weird time to be thinking about and blaming Corbyn considering who is in charge.
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Yeah, I should let it lie sorry, it was just the recent stuff about the UK still having to follow EU rules and not being allowed to subsidise industry that reminded me, as it kind of made the Labour Left's traditional opposition to the EU somewhat pointless. I suppose it's very much the old Left anyway, they're a dwindling band nowadays.
 
711 said:
Yeah, I should let it lie sorry, it was just the recent stuff about the UK still having to follow EU rules and not being allowed to subsidise industry that reminded me, as it kind of made the Labour Left's traditional opposition to the EU somewhat pointless. I suppose it's very much the old Left anyway, they're a dwindling band nowadays.
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Not sure how many expected Tory Brexit to ever do anything else which is probably why Corbyn grudgingly campaigned for remain in 2016.
 
711 said:
Right, who could forget Corbyn's spirited and relentless campaign for Remain in the referendum :lol: or the way he decisively formulated Labour's 2019 EU policy, almost as if he hadn't tried to prevent debate on a second referendum at the party conference at all. You're in denial, but I'm happy for you to keep drawing attention to it.
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:lol:Clarity of message on Brexit is not an abiding memory of Corbyn's leadership.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I've never got this. I didn't find the position confusing at all but clearly I'm in a minority.
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Not at the end, it made sense at the end (in terms of what he was offering the electorate), but up until then it was hard to pin down what he thought.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I've never got this. I didn't find the position confusing at all but clearly I'm in a minority.
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Really? How long did it take Labour to formulate an official policy on a second referendum? You know Corbyn not saying how he voted and not giving a view on the biggest issue facing the country gave Johnson an open goal in the debates.
 
Jippy said:
Really? How long did it take Labour to formulate an official policy on a second referendum? You know Corbyn not saying how he voted and not giving a view on the biggest issue facing the country gave Johnson an open goal in the debates.
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Yes, really.
I like a political party taking a nuanced and considered position. I understand the optics but that's part of the bloody problem with politics. I accept binary positions and sloganeering is how this works but, frankly, Labour's Brexit position didn't seem confusing to me. Rather, I'm more confused but positions such as those taken by the Conservatives which was inflexible reality manipulation using simplistic sloganeering rather than addressing the complexity honestly.
So, yes, I struggle to understand why more people don't appreciate the nuance of the Labour position.
It ended up at broadly: negotiate a deal. Once all terms understood present the full case to the electorate and have a second ref. Take campaigning position at that time.
I think that's sensible in a volatile and polarised political situation. I think it's also pretty clear.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
Yes, really.
I like a political party taking a nuanced and considered position. I understand the optics but that's part of the bloody problem with politics. I accept binary positions and sloganeering is how this works but, frankly, Labour's Brexit position didn't seem confusing to me. Rather, I'm more confused but positions such as those taken by the Conservatives which was inflexible reality manipulation using simplistic sloganeering rather than addressing the complexity honestly.
So, yes, I struggle to understand why more people don't appreciate the nuance of the Labour position.
It ended up at broadly: negotiate a deal. Once all terms understood present the full case to the electorate and have a second ref. Take campaigning position at that time.
I think that's sensible in a volatile and polarised political situation. I think it's also pretty clear.
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:lol:Nuanced position? That's one way of describing it. Even sympathetic papers like the Guardian couldn't figure out his stance, so clearly it was too "nuanced" for its own good. It took him three years to decide to back a second referendum as well and he had to be dragged to that position.

I guess it's just for historical record now, but it's remarkable that Corbyn's supporters are now claiming he handled Brexit well. I don't like sloganeering politics any more than you do, but a party leader has to be mindful of the political system they operate in. Johnson's 'get Brexit done' catchphrase was very annoying but way more effective than 'let's discuss anything but Brexit'
 
Jippy said:
:lol:Nuanced position? That's one way of describing it. Even sympathetic papers like the Guardian couldn't figure out his stance, so clearly it was too "nuanced" for its own good. It took him three years to decide to back a second referendum as well and he had to be dragged to that position.

I guess it's just for historical record now, but it's remarkable that Corbyn's supporters are now claiming he handled Brexit well. I don't like sloganeering politics any more than you do, but a party leader has to be mindful of the political system they operate in. Johnson's 'get Brexit done' catchphrase was very annoying but way more effective than 'let's discuss anything but Brexit'
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I didn't vote for Corbyn and I'm making no claims about Labour's Brexit position I didn't make at the time. I am surprised that you would claim the Guardian is a Corbyn sympathetic paper.

I really hate laughing emojis but, yes, I think the position was nuanced and did at the time. I'm on record in this site saying so. I don't think jumping to an immediate position in such a complex environment would have been admirable.

Be astonished if you must. I find the derision regarding Labour's position on Brexit as incredulous as your wee laughing face emojis suggests you find my position.

Yes. The political system requires a political leader play the game. I find that, generally, regrettable.

In short, I found the Labour (not just Corbyn -Starmer was prominent) Brexit position pragmatic and clear. At the time and now. I had already acknowledged I am in the minority.

I am not a partizan Corbyn supporter but I am of the left and find the vitriol towards him (including from the "sympathetic" Guardian) both unsurprising and regrettable. If that requires you to label me a "Corbyn supporter" so be it.
 
Look where a "clear position" has got us. Turned out it was bullshit.
 
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