Joe Rogan

Wibble said:


How is his show in any way important?



Perhaps in the context of a discussion about racism and racists language it is ok? Other than that is hard to think of a usage that isn't at best risky/inappropriate/cultural appropriation or at worst outright racist abuse. It isn't like it is that hard to avoid using it or other racist terms like yids or slopes etc
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The other thing to remember is there does seem to be some personal allowance for who can and can't say. For example myself and most of my friends are British black caribbean and to us any person of non-black heritage using the n-word is a no go. When we were younger we would use the word often due to hip hop/american cultural influence. As we've gotten older we've actively stopped using it although it still creeps in due to muscle memory because even amongst "black culture" 50% of the time its used negatively. Thats from a british black Caribbean perspective.

I have also known people who are happy for their non-black friends to use it in a hip hop slang way when referring to them. To me and my friends its weird but whatever.

You also have people like the rapper french montana whose of arabic/north african descent i believe who uses it but somehow gets a pass because he's a rapper whichbis stupid.

To me personally I understand the thought behind reclaiming the word etc but I reckon it should just be left in the past and even those of black heritage should probably move on from using it.
 
nimic said:
If someone thinks black people have different brains, that's the very definition of racism. It's not just one thing either, there's a pattern here.
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It's a difficult question: can you say racist things without being a racist?

Surely the video I posted of Dwayne Johnson would qualify as racist?

I understand that when it happens frequently, it suggests an underlying pattern. But still, with Rogan I have this feeling he's one of those people who are not very bright and just say dumb shit all the time. He makes outrageous claims on a lot of things.
 
Botim said:


Or: people say and do dumb things all the time. Doesn't necessarily mean they are vile racists. Just stupid and uneducated (on certain subjects)
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I don’t understand this. If we can’t judge people by their words and feelings then how do we categorise someone as a racist? Does he have to lynch someone?
This is just the tip of the iceberg with joe. Wait until the many instances of Joe laughing at sexual assault comes to light for the general public. That’s where this he isn’t really a bad guy falls down, he is on the wrong side of so many stupid takes that his character can 100 percent be called into question.
 
Botim said:
It's a difficult question: can you say racist things without being a racist?

Surely the video I posted of Dwayne Johnson would qualify as racist?

I understand that when it happens frequently, it suggests an underlying pattern. But still, with Rogan I have this feeling he's one of those people who are not very bright and just say dumb shit all the time. He makes outrageous claims on a lot of things.
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He has a massive audience and as such massive influence. He's not in the schoolyard. Mitigation with he's "humble" or not very bright or criticism is just begrudgery, or 'saying racist things doesn't make you a racist' just doesn't wash in the glare of popularity as big as his.
 
Botim said:
It's a difficult question: can you say racist things without being a racist?

Surely the video I posted of Dwayne Johnson would qualify as racist?

I understand that when it happens frequently, it suggests an underlying pattern. But still, with Rogan I have this feeling he's one of those people who are not very bright and just say dumb shit all the time. He makes outrageous claims on a lot of things.
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I'm all for embracing ambiguity and subjective interpretations but Joe Rogan's comment about black people having a different brain is pretty straightforward. To the point where even he recognises he has to immediately clarify his view so that it doesn't sound derogatory (to him) - it's not that black brains are worse, just different. He really believes black brains are different. The heritage of that idea is well documented, and the direct consequences of beliefs just like that are fundamental to some of the darkest moments in modern history. You have to be racist to believe it's even plausible, as it's based on a racist concept.

That's very different to saying the n word. That is ambiguous. You can use it because you're stupid, or you're being intentionally inappropriate, or you're trying to make some political point, or there's some specific context where it's genuinely appropriate. And standards change so they can move between categories over the years. Saying black people have different brains isn't ambiguous, and its meaning doesn't vary according the standards of the time. It has roots in something very real.
 
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moses said:
I'll gladly make fun of crying men if they are crying about Jesus.

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Wow that's embarrassing :lol:

I fully expected the YouTube comments to mock him, but they are pretty much all praising him, Jesus Christ or both.
 
nimic said:
If someone thinks black people have different brains, that's the very definition of racism. It's not just one thing either, there's a pattern here.
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Very much so. Don't understand why even bother defending something that is so clearly pure racism.
 
Joe Rogan's fanboys really are something else. So after The Rock initially defended Rogan, but later backtracked after the obvious racist clips emerged, Joe's fans have now started digging up stuff on The Rock. If you go to 'The Joe Rogan Experience' subreddit, you will now find clips from The Rock's wrestling days, where he calls someone "retarded" and "a bloated transvestite Wonder Woman".

Oh, and then there's this:



There goes the Rock/Oprah 2024 ticket.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Joe Rogan's fanboys really are something else. So after The Rock initially defended Rogan, but later backtracked after the obvious racist clips emerged, Joe's fans have now started digging up stuff on The Rock. If you go to 'The Joe Rogan Experience' subreddit, you will now find clips from The Rock's wrestling days, where he calls someone "retarded" and "a bloated transvestite Wonder Woman".

Oh, and then there's this:



There goes the Rock/Oprah 2024 ticket.
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That's so bad though :lol: Trump. Trump level.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Joe Rogan's fanboys really are something else. So after The Rock initially defended Rogan, but later backtracked after the obvious racist clips emerged, Joe's fans have now started digging up stuff on The Rock. If you go to 'The Joe Rogan Experience' subreddit, you will now find clips from The Rock's wrestling days, where he calls someone "retarded" and "a bloated transvestite Wonder Woman".

Oh, and then there's this:



There goes the Rock/Oprah 2024 ticket.
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Didn’t know the Rock was fluent in Mandarin?
 
The Rock could probably get away with saying he was portraying a character written by the WWEs writing staff at the time...
 
Mike Smalling said:
Joe Rogan's fanboys really are something else. So after The Rock initially defended Rogan, but later backtracked after the obvious racist clips emerged, Joe's fans have now started digging up stuff on The Rock. If you go to 'The Joe Rogan Experience' subreddit, you will now find clips from The Rock's wrestling days, where he calls someone "retarded" and "a bloated transvestite Wonder Woman".

Oh, and then there's this:



There goes the Rock/Oprah 2024 ticket.
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Dwayne Johnson looking at Rogan fans on twitter

 
Botim said:


Or: people say and do dumb things all the time. Doesn't necessarily mean they are vile racists. Just stupid and uneducated (on certain subjects)
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Why are whatabouters so incredibly bad at trying to propose equivalencies?
 
Conor said:
Why are whatabouters so incredibly bad at trying to propose equivalencies?
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So you get to decide which racism is ok and which racism gets you cancelled?

My point wasn't that what Rogan said was alright, just to be clear. More that saying something racist/homophobic/transphobic doesn't automatically make you a racist/homophobe/transphobe. If it did, everyone in history could be classified a racist.

In JR's case, he does seem to cross the line a few times too often to just be labelled ignorant.
 
About time Joe Rogan got cancelled. He has said some offensive shit but you can't get away with saying the n word.
 
Suv666 said:
About time Joe Rogan got cancelled. He has said some offensive shit but you can't get away with saying the n word.
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He's not getting cancelled.
 
Botim said:
So you get to decide which racism is ok and which racism gets you cancelled?

My point wasn't that what Rogan said was alright, just to be clear. More that saying something racist/homophobic/transphobic doesn't automatically make you a racist/homophobe/transphobe. If it did, everyone in history could be classified a racist.

In JR's case, he does seem to cross the line a few times too often to just be labelled ignorant.
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Racism is not OK, end of story. And saying as much is not about cancelling, because thats just hysterical. How can you cancel Joe Rogan ffs?
 
Botim said:


Or: people say and do dumb things all the time. Doesn't necessarily mean they are vile racists. Just stupid and uneducated (on certain subjects)
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That's a WWE clip i.e. Professional wrestling. That's a segment written by a writing team for a TV character, and it was in poor taste.

Equating that with Joe Rogan constantly using racial epithets in his podcast is perplexing. And irrelevant to the point.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
That's a WWE clip i.e. Professional wrestling. That's a segment written by a writing team for a TV character, and it was in poor taste.

Equating that with Joe Rogan constantly using racial epithets in his podcast is perplexing. And irrelevant to the point.
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Sometimes these kind of things are meant to be offensive, but tounge in cheek. I guess it can become an eternal discussion about where you draw the line.
 
Gehrman said:
Sometimes these kind of things are meant to be offensive, but tounge in cheek. I guess it can become an eternal discussion about where you draw the line.
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They might cross the line. I think that there were some pretty awkward/inappropriate moments during that era, but the point I was making is that the criticism should be laid at the feet of the writers, not an actor performing a role (although, you can counter by arguing that he should have known better than to go along with it).
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
That's a WWE clip i.e. Professional wrestling. That's a segment written by a writing team for a TV character, and it was in poor taste.

Equating that with Joe Rogan constantly using racial epithets in his podcast is perplexing. And irrelevant to the point.
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Exactly this. Wrestling isn’t real for feck sake!
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
That's a WWE clip i.e. Professional wrestling. That's a segment written by a writing team for a TV character, and it was in poor taste.

Equating that with Joe Rogan constantly using racial epithets in his podcast is perplexing. And irrelevant to the point.
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It's not about equating anything, it's about pointing out that plenty of people have had these questionable moments. The Rock also accused someone of using "****** tricks" and called another "bloated transvestite".

My only question was if that automatically makes you a racist, transphobe, etc. In JR's case, you can probably say yes, because it's a pattern, but in a lot of cases, it's not clear at all (to me at least)
 
Botim said:
It's not about equating anything, it's about pointing out that plenty of people have had these questionable moments. The Rock also accused someone of using "****** tricks" and called another "bloated transvestite".

My only question was if that automatically makes you a racist, transphobe, etc. In JR's case, you can probably say yes, because it's a pattern, but in a lot of cases, it's not clear at all (to me at least)
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Botim said:
That's a bit easy, isn't it? So, if John Cena's character called The Rock the N-word, that would be ok too?
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You seem to be forgetting that WWE is scripted entirely to appease a 76 year old man child white supremacist.

John Cena hasn’t said these things because he didn’t want to and had enough sway to get away with telling his boss no. Dwayne probably could too nowadays (and for what it’s worth he got a lot of stick when he did this stuff in recent years and has notably toned down when I’ve seen anything in recent years) but runs with stuff that he did when he was a lot younger because “it’s what the people want to see” as much as it totally isn’t right.
 
Botim said:
That's a bit easy, isn't it? So, if John Cena's character called The Rock the N-word, that would be ok too?
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It’s easy because it’s true? Or we end up saying Joe forced people to eat bugs against their will etc etc
Wrestling isn’t real. The Rock had a personal script writer constructing his promos back in the day.
Wrestling is not real and getting butt hurt because Rock has disassociated himself from a racist is beyond petty
 
And judging by racists in general, if he feels comfortable using that word on a podcast he knows thousands are listening to, I'd bet he uses it even more casually in his private life.
 
Gehrman said:
He's not getting cancelled.
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He should be. I'm sure his nutty fans who worship the ground he walks on will intensify their love for him now he has said the n-word but Spotify will definitely be rethinking their deal with Rogan. They were already under pressure with his never-ending Covid misinformation.
 
Suv666 said:
He should be. I'm sure his nutty fans who worship the ground he walks on will intensify their love for him now he has said the n-word but Spotify will definitely be rethinking their deal with Rogan. They were already under pressure with his never-ending Covid misinformation.
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I think you may be onto something here. The COVID controversies were always going to unearth new criticisms of his show and cast a giant spotlight on Spotify's part in giving him such a massive deal.
 
Botim said:
It's not about equating anything, it's about pointing out that plenty of people have had these questionable moments. The Rock also accused someone of using "****** tricks" and called another "bloated transvestite".

My only question was if that automatically makes you a racist, transphobe, etc. In JR's case, you can probably say yes, because it's a pattern, but in a lot of cases, it's not clear at all (to me at least)
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He was reading a script you doofus.
Do you think Di Caprio was on the Titanic?
 
Raoul said:
I think you may be onto something here. The COVID controversies were always going to unearth new criticisms of his show and cast a giant spotlight on Spotify's part in giving him such a massive deal.
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Yup his Spotify career is over imo. Back to the Youtube I guess.
 
Suv666 said:
He was reading a script you doofus.
Do you think Di Caprio was on the Titanic?
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The transphobic name calling on Twitter wasn't scripted, though.

Anyway, I feel I'm being pushed into a category I'm really uncomfortable with. I've never listened to JR, nor am I trying to defend him. I could've picked a better example than The Rock, since clearly you're all missing the point completely.

Again: the only thing I was saying is that past racist/sexist/... remarks don't automatically make you a racist/sexist/... From Ricky Gervais using the n-word, to Trudeau wearing blackface, there's plenty of examples.

As for Rogan, I still feel he's more of an idiot than a racist. I don't know much about him, but I've seen compilations of him defending the most ludicrous theories with a straight face...
 
Botim said:
The transphobic name calling on Twitter wasn't scripted, though.

Anyway, I feel I'm being pushed into a category I'm really uncomfortable with. I've never listened to JR, nor am I trying to defend him. I could've picked a better example than The Rock, since clearly you're all missing the point completely.

Again: the only thing I was saying is that past racist/sexist/... remarks don't automatically make you a racist/sexist/... From Ricky Gervais using the n-word, to Trudeau wearing blackface, there's plenty of examples.

As for Rogan, I still feel he's more of an idiot than a racist. I don't know much about him, but I've seen compilations of him defending the most ludicrous theories with a straight face...
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I actually understand what you are trying to say, Trudeau is a good example of it. One extremely stupid and misguided choice doesn’t mean he is racist.

One small issue with Rogan is the number of times he has said that particular word. The flippant use is troubling, but as a comic/part time edgelord, I can still see how you could use that word but genuinely not have deeper racist feelings. It’s stupid, because you are failing to understand the meaning and symbolism of the word, but up to that point, I can still see the argument.

But the planet of the apes comment is a step too far and isn’t even funny. It just hints at the fact that you see those of a different race as almost another species. There is no other way it can be taken beyond a horrible racist caricature. It’s extremely shaky ground and the fact that he said it publically makes you wonder what he would say privately. I think this is where the defence starts to breakdown. It’s hard to rationalize and even harder to defend.

The white brain/black brain comment though is completely beyond what is racist that it’s not even a conversation. The biggest racial atrocities in history have been carried out because of that particular point of view. It’s an extremely troubling perspective and I don’t think there is any way you can say it and not be racist.
 
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