Jonny Evans | 2011/12 Performances

He's turning into a bit of a leader isn't he. Very impressed. He looks quite quiet and timid with his face like a bowl of cold mash potato but when he needs to be he can be fired up, especially when he scores.
 
marjen said:
Evans is different class to Smalling on the ball.

Furthermore, I feel Evans has really developed the physical side of his game. Smalling's a beast, but I don't think it's much between them as of now. Right now I'd rate Evans as the better CB, but Smalling's got potential through the roof. We're lucky to have them both as well as Jones.

The interesting question is when Evans/Smalling/Jones should jump ahead of Rio/Vida in the pecking order. For me, Evans for example has performed better than Rio for the last year. But Rio's still so composed in the big matches it's almost always worth it to have him in the side.
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Definitely tough to drop Rio. He still oozes class. On Saturday, Lindegaard sliced a kick up in the air, Rio - who was the last man - had 3 QPR players around him, plucked the ball out of the air and played it to Evans, as cool as you like.

We're in good shape long term at centre back. Evans is getting better and better. And now also scores goals. Smalling looks like he'll be brilliant soon enough. But for me, Jones is still the one with the biggest potential. If he can stay free of injury.
 
I'm just not seeing the potential that everyone else sees in Jones at the moment. I hope to god I'm wrong and that given the opportunity he'll develop into the player everyone says he can be.

Regarding our top 4 centre halves and add Jones we are set for a decade providing injuries don't prove to be a problem and that we get some youth coming up to provide cover when Rio and Vidic finish up.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I'm just not seeing the potential that everyone else sees in Jones at the moment. I hope to god I'm wrong and that given the opportunity he'll develop into the player everyone says he can be.

Regarding our top 4 centre halves and add Jones we are set for a decade providing injuries don't prove to be a problem and that we get some youth coming up to provide cover when Rio and Vidic finish up.
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and we still have Carrickbauer :]
 
marjen said:
Evans is different class to Smalling on the ball.

Furthermore, I feel Evans has really developed the physical side of his game. Smalling's a beast, but I don't think it's much between them as of now. Right now I'd rate Evans as the better CB, but Smalling's got potential through the roof. We're lucky to have them both as well as Jones.

The interesting question is when Evans/Smalling/Jones should jump ahead of Rio/Vida in the pecking order. For me, Evans for example has performed better than Rio for the last year. But Rio's still so composed in the big matches it's almost always worth it to have him in the side.
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In what way? Big overstatement I feel. Smalling is very good on the ball and will only get better. Evans is very good don't get me wrong but to say he is different class is off beat.

Pique and perhaps even Hummels are maybe different class right now. Hummels' distribution is fecking exceptional.
 
Comsmit said:
In what way? Big overstatement I feel. Smalling is very good on the ball and will only get better. Evans is very good don't get me wrong but to say he is different class is off beat.

Pique and perhaps even Hummels are maybe different class right now. Hummels' distribution is fecking exceptional.
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Possibly but I think he is slightly better on the ball at the moment. Smalling does alright, but he's sometimes a bit ungainly with it, and has a slightly shaky first touch. Evans looks better and better on the ball with every game. He's got incredibly tight control for a defender. Sometimes he seems to get irritated with our shoddy midfields not getting available for a pass, and just glides through a rank or so of the opposition himself, and you find yourself thinking 'why can't our midfield do that?' His crucial involvement in NI's goal vs Portugal is a good example.

I think they're both fantastic. And they seem like they could really complement each other in a partnership. Both good with the ball, with Evans particularly good at bringing it out. Both good in the air - Evans in an aggressive, young-Vidic way, and Smalling thanks to a combination of his size, composure and intelligence, always seems to be in the right place to just effortlessly nod cross after cross safely away. Evans not afraid of a good tackle, whilst Smalling's reading of the game puts him in the Rio mould, right place at the right time, stopping attacks without necessarily even needing to tackle.

Despite Rio's continuing class, I think his loss of pace and the quality of Evans and Smalling means he won't be first choice next season, injuries-permitting. I don't know what the situation with Vidic is going to be, but I'd be perfectly happy with those two as a first-choice partnership at the back next season. Actually, I'd be quite excited by it.
 
Great post Brightonian, and I think you're pretty right on all points. Maybe I could say that what little we've seen of Smalling recently his first touch IIRC hasn't let him down, and again that control will come with age. I think Evans is certainly above Smalling in all areas at the moment, but given the rate of Smallings development from where he was a few years ago to where he is now I would say that that will be a much closer thing if Chris gets a good run of games injury free.

Comparing them is going to be pointless in a few seasons as they will both be first choice, but next year I agree that one of them will be favoured to partner Vidic in most games.
 
Evans still has to improve his concentration, or at least his tendency to make an inexplicable error which leads to goal scoring opportunities for the opposing team. That's not a good trait for a defender.

Still, he's a terrific defender. But I feel much more comfortable when Smalling is under pressure than when Evans is under pressure.
 
Comsmit said:
In what way? Big overstatement I feel. Smalling is very good on the ball and will only get better. Evans is very good don't get me wrong but to say he is different class is off beat.

Pique and perhaps even Hummels are maybe different class right now. Hummels' distribution is fecking exceptional.
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Smalling's the one most likely to give the ball away out of perhaps all of our centre backs. Likewise for his passing technique - it's the least refined by quite a distance. I've forgotten what Jones is like as a passer to be honest. He gets loads of credit for doing this fancy, largely pointless turns and roulettes and whatnot but when it comes down to the key ball-playing qualities in a defender he's a way behind Evans, IMO. His long passing's a particular weak point. Wonderful composure on the ball but still very raw in his use of it. Unsurprising given how long he spent at Maidstone and he's definitely got huge upside in that sense, but it is a part of his game that doesn't really get as much criticism as you'd expect (and the opposite has been true of Evans up until a few months ago).
 
Evans is a superb passer of the ball. I think he gets under-appreciated in the technical aspect of his game at times, because he doesn't make the surging runs forward like Jones does, or the odd bit of "tekkers" like Smalling (although I've seen bits from time to time). I'd say he's certainly the closest we have to Rio in terms of passing and first touch anyway. I haven't really seen enough from Jones to suggest he's on that level yet, but obviously he's a lot younger.
 
Aye, Evans is superb on the ball. His touch, is composure under pressure and his ability to break out from defence is the best of our CB's. (Phil Jones does break out of defence but he's not got the control of Evans) His long passing and distribution's excellent as well.
 
I prefer to see Smalling in central defence over Evans, when Smalling comes in the team he dominates aerially in the box, a part of Evans game that is lacking IMO. I don't think that the disparity in passing ability is that great either. I would already choose Smalling over Evans and Smalling has a great deal of improving to do still.
 
I think you're underestimating Evans. He's very good in the air and has taken huge strides in that part of his game the last year or so.

Smalling's excellent at defending crosses I'll give him that.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I prefer to see Smalling in central defence over Evans, when Smalling comes in the team he dominates aerially in the box, a part of Evans game that is lacking IMO. I don't think that the disparity in passing ability is that great either. I would already choose Smalling over Evans and Smalling has a great deal of improving to do still.
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Pretty much spot on.

Smalling has a bit of an ungainly stride, but his composure on the ball is outstanding and he's fantastic in defending crosses. Jonny can be excellent at times, but the prospect of a catastrophic error is always present with him. Not much between them, however.
 
Evans' composure is far better than Smalling. Smalling still has that uncertain air of "young defender coming through the ranks", while Evans looks like an established player, and hes already better than most CBs in the league technically. Seldom do you see a CB with that kind of ball control. I can only think of Rio in all my time watching United who has had that kind of composure on the ball, and thats quite a compliment.

If Smalling is given time to play like Evans has been then he can probably get up to Evans' level, but at the moment Evans is the easy first choice alongside Rio. If Rio starts struggling again Smalling is a great backup for him though, and Evans has come far enough for it to no longer be a dodgy inexperienced partnership if him and Smalling were to play together.

Jones Im not so sure about. Seems to lack the tenacity to play CB. Still very young though.
 
It's a case of Smalling and Evans for me. Not "or".

Jones has to prove his ability as a centre back.
Ferdinand has to continually prove his fitness at 34.
Vidic has to prove his fitness, then prove he can get back to the level we require which, if fit, I'm sure he can.

So yeah, for the medium term I see Smalling and Jones as natural reliable first choices. Ferdinand has the ability when fit to make a case but I really believe in partnerships and the sooner we start forming one the better. Switching around individuals constantly does no good for anyone.
 
KM said:
Probably because Smalling has been quite injury prone so far. Also Evans has generally been very good over the last year or so. If he keeps Smalling out of team it's because of his performances rather than experience.
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Oh I agree he has performed well enough over the last year. I just mean initially, Evans was given the slot over Smalling. After the first few injuries, Smalling played at right-back from the beginning of last season, with Evans starting in the middle with Jones for a bit, and then Rio when he returned. Smalling didn't really get a look in at centre-half more than the odd game or so when there were defensive slots up for grabs.

After Rio and Vida got injured, I think most of us expected to see the Smalling/Jones partnership that had everyone talking, especially after the U21 tournament. But to my knowledge, they never started together in the middle.
 
Brightonian said:
Despite Rio's continuing class, I think his loss of pace and the quality of Evans and Smalling means he won't be first choice next season, injuries-permitting. I don't know what the situation with Vidic is going to be, but I'd be perfectly happy with those two as a first-choice partnership at the back next season. Actually, I'd be quite excited by it.
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Yes good analysis. I do think Evans is currently a step ahead in his development and his greater experience and run of games in the last year has been of a huge benefit to him. There is no substitute for real game time. I suppose I wanted a definition of what constituted "different class." I prefer your analysis.

One thing I'm not so sure about is an Evans/Smalling partnership that is set in stone. I have a feeling we will be in for Hummels at some point. Then it will be the best of the rest.
 
Vidic - has to prove his fitness - he's not going to be the same player after being out for combined full season.

Rio - he should remain on a yearly contract as back up as we have a tendency to have at least one centreback premanently crocked.

Smalling and Evans should be the basis of our centre defence unless Fergie spots a real talent.

I think Jones will end up leaving United - I just don't think he is as amazing as so many think on here. He is just a more rapid version of Terry but without Terry reading of the game and composure (yes young JT was a hell of a defender before his injuries)
 
He is terrific with the ball, he really is. Our best CB in that aspect bar Rio and perhaps even better in tight spaces.
 
Commadus said:
Vidic - has to prove his fitness - he's not going to be the same player after being out for combined full season.

Rio - he should remain on a yearly contract as back up as we have a tendency to have at least one centreback premanently crocked.

Smalling and Evans should be the basis of our centre defence unless Fergie spots a real talent.

I think Jones will end up leaving United - I just don't think he is as amazing as so many think on here. He is just a more rapid version of Terry but without Terry reading of the game and composure (yes young JT was a hell of a defender before his injuries)
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I agree with all that apart from Jones.
 
Brwned said:
Smalling's the one most likely to give the ball away out of perhaps all of our centre backs. Likewise for his passing technique - it's the least refined by quite a distance. I've forgotten what Jones is like as a passer to be honest. He gets loads of credit for doing this fancy, largely pointless turns and roulettes and whatnot but when it comes down to the key ball-playing qualities in a defender he's a way behind Evans, IMO. His long passing's a particular weak point. Wonderful composure on the ball but still very raw in his use of it. Unsurprising given how long he spent at Maidstone and he's definitely got huge upside in that sense, but it is a part of his game that doesn't really get as much criticism as you'd expect (and the opposite has been true of Evans up until a few months ago).
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I agree that he is the least refined, although Vidic has always lacked a certain measure of technical proficiency in his distribution...might be arguable with those two. Rio is still the benchmark for me. Smalling is improving he needs to sort out the weight on his distribution but he can play football no doubt. I've seen him ping a few long balls, there was one against Spain U21's where it was driven about 60 yards and weighted perfectly so he has it in him. He needs games really like Evans has been afforded the last year.

I do think there is a slight overeaction to Evans distribution from some people. He is very fine in his ability no doubt, and he has the technique to deliver long range passes well. If one looks at Mats Hummels however, and looks hard, his distribution is a lesson in excellence. He can split a midfield from his own half with a pass into feet, some of his long balls are stride perfect...and not just to wide areas where there is more space, over the top of the central defenders. Evans has hit a handful of lovely long balls, but his distribution at the back and into midfield is nice and tidy but not particularly outstanding. I've rarely if ever seen him split a midfield with a ball into feet, something Rio has done countless times since 2002.
 
I agree that if people think Evans is a better ball-player than Rio then they've forgotten just how good Rio is or they've gotten well ahead of themselves with the Evans praise. Rio's lost that mobility and become far more reserved and focussed on his defending for a long while now but at his peak Evans isn't in the same league. And then I think Hummels is the next step up. He's playing a different game to every other centre back, he's not a ball-playing defender he's a playmaker from the back. He's not the new Beckenbauer or anything close but no-one gets near him from the current crop.
 
Smalling is very underrated on the ball it seems. He used to carry the ball out from the back very well. He looks good enough on the ball when at full-back too.

I seem to recall many United fans calling him 'Smallingbaur', of course as an indication of his ability on the ball.
 
Rozay said:
Smalling is very underrated on the ball it seems. He used to carry the ball out from the back very well. He looks good enough on the ball when at full-back too.

I seem to recall many United fans calling him 'Smallingbaur', of course as an indication of his ability on the ball.
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Agreed. Smalling drove up the flank and whipped in quite a few sensational crosses while he was on assignment at right back. Questions regarding his ability on the ball are ridiculous.
 
Ruud10 said:
Agreed. Smalling drove up the flank and whipped in quite a few sensational crosses while he was on assignment at right back. Questions regarding his ability on the ball are ridiculous.
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He did a great job at RB, no doubt about it. But driving down the flank as a full back is very different from distributing and keeping composed at CB. I dont see Rafael doing that well at CB for all his skill at the back.

Evans has shown far more on the ball ability in tight situations and under pressure than Smalling has. Smalling just a few matches ago lost the ball under pressure because of lingering / slow decision making. Just one example, I know, and Evans has had them as well along the road, but as of right now, with Evans' headstart in terms of minutes played, theres really no debate as to which of them is the better CB with the ball in their feet.
 
Brwned said:
I agree that if people think Evans is a better ball-player than Rio then they've forgotten just how good Rio is or they've gotten well ahead of themselves with the Evans praise. Rio's lost that mobility and become far more reserved and focussed on his defending for a long while now but at his peak Evans isn't in the same league. And then I think Hummels is the next step up. He's playing a different game to every other centre back, he's not a ball-playing defender he's a playmaker from the back. He's not the new Beckenbauer or anything close but no-one gets near him from the current crop.
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Rio at his peak was better than Evans with close control but long passing?

I cant remember Rio surginf forward with the ball. Anyone got clips?
 
Brwned said:
I agree that if people think Evans is a better ball-player than Rio then they've forgotten just how good Rio is or they've gotten well ahead of themselves with the Evans praise. Rio's lost that mobility and become far more reserved and focussed on his defending for a long while now but at his peak Evans isn't in the same league. And then I think Hummels is the next step up. He's playing a different game to every other centre back, he's not a ball-playing defender he's a playmaker from the back. He's not the new Beckenbauer or anything close but no-one gets near him from the current crop.
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A slightly related note, in our very last match against QPR there was a moment when the ball was coming down from up high and Rio was under pressure, and he just trapped it with the coolest first touch and played it out. It was sensational.
 
Yeah, I thought that was the second most gif-worthy moment of the match (second to Chich's goal). Was like the Berbs never left.
 
Count Orduck said:
A slightly related note, in our very last match against QPR there was a moment when the ball was coming down from up high and Rio was under pressure, and he just trapped it with the coolest first touch and played it out. It was sensational.
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Not to mention the moment when he ran from defence, beat a man with a stepover, played a one-two followed by a through ball into the box. Was sexy!
 
Rozay said:
Smalling is very underrated on the ball it seems. He used to carry the ball out from the back very well. He looks good enough on the ball when at full-back too.

I seem to recall many United fans calling him 'Smallingbaur', of course as an indication of his ability on the ball.
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Yes, that's when people massively overreacted because of his composure on the ball. He's a very good ball-carrier (though much more likely to stumble, trip over the ball and gift the opposition a chance than Evans) but his passing has always left a lot to be desired. This thread is probably worth a read if you can cope with the bar charts and stuff (I couldn't)...

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/manchester-united-central-defenders-numbers-331828/

Commadus said:
Rio at his peak was better than Evans with close control but long passing?

I cant remember Rio surginf forward with the ball. Anyone got clips?
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Up until this season I'd not really noticed Evans was a particularly good long passer so we'll see how that develops. That part of his game could definitely be better than Rio's because Rio was a teeny bit wasteful with some long punts. Equally there were some gorgeous passes out to Giggsy and Rooney.

You can't remember him surging forward? He did it far too often as a young player, not in any way David Luiz-esque but there were too many times where he was caught out. Strode up that pitch with such elegance though. I think he stopped around 2007-ish.

Count Orduck said:
A slightly related note, in our very last match against QPR there was a moment when the ball was coming down from up high and Rio was under pressure, and he just trapped it with the coolest first touch and played it out. It was sensational.
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Rozay said:
Not to mention the moment when he ran from defence, beat a man with a stepover, played a one-two followed by a through ball into the box. Was sexy!
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He did one of those "Smallingbauer" half-roulette's too. He just decided in that second half that he's going to remind everyone he's a ridiculously good footballer for some reason. Someone made the point that Fletcher started sitting back in almost on top of the centre backs after 60 minutes and I reckon that must be it - Fletch was wrecked so Evans and Rio took turns doing his job while he dropped into centre back. Can't remember the last time Rio played like that.
 
Brwned said:
Yes, that's when people massively overreacted because of his composure on the ball. He's a very good ball-carrier (though much more likely to stumble, trip over the ball and gift the opposition a chance than Evans) but his passing has always left a lot to be desired. This thread is probably worth a read if you can cope with the bar charts and stuff (I couldn't)...

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/manchester-united-central-defenders-numbers-331828/


He did one of those "Smallingbauer" half-roulette's too. He just decided in that second half that he's going to remind everyone he's a ridiculously good footballer for some reason. Someone made the point that Fletcher started sitting back in almost on top of the centre backs after 60 minutes and I reckon that must be it - Fletch was wrecked so Evans and Rio took turns doing his job while he dropped into centre back. Can't remember the last time Rio played like that.
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Just ran over the bar charts! Cheers Brwned. Evans' interception rate surprised me I'm going to look at this more closely when he plays. Not something I've always thought is a strength of his.

As for Rio it's like you said earlier...these days he spends most of the game focusing more clearly on his defending. When he expresses himself however it's splendid...especially when you've almost forgotten he is a terrific footballer.

I don't think it can be underestimated how important he has been to Evans' development.
 
Big test for him against West Ham as it will be physical. I remember him getting bullied and I think it was against this lot. Will show how far he has come if he can handle Nolan and Carrol.
 
It's been a joy to watch him and Rafael so far. Both have been outstanding.
 
Had a magnificent match. Really impressive, both at the back and coming forward.

My only concern is that we're still giving up knock-downs on every free kick - if he's the 'hard man' in the defense I guess that comes down to him.
 
Some nice play from him today and showing more authority in defence. If he keeps this up no reason he can't make it one of Vidic or Rio partnering him right now.
 
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