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Juan Mata | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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United have signed the 'best player in the league' in Mata, says Scholes
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...player-Barclays-Premier-League-Juan-Mata.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...player-Barclays-Premier-League-Juan-Mata.html
No it's just lazy criticism by people who can't see the wood for the trees.
Here are three heat maps that prove the argument is an outright lie.
First, the heat map of United under Moyes. Look at the concentration of heat on the right wing, the right winger has been getting chalk on his boots, staying as wide as possible and stretching the play.
Now compare it to Mata's heat map from the Fulham game. Notice that whilst he is nominally starting from the right, the heat signature shows him drifting in and in and in. There is less attempt to get beyond the left back and into a 'wingers posistion' behind the full back as there is to come back into midfield and play the ball.
Now compare this to Mesut Özil who no one is stupid enough to make the argument is playing 'wide right', notice the large concentration of heat, throughout the season, in almost the exact same areas that Mata operated in against Fulham.
And this is in a team whose primary tactic was to get the ball wide and cross it yet Juan Mata, nominally playing from the right, was doing the exact opposite of playing like that. Mata who, lets be honest, you're arguing was a 'right winger' made 11 crosses. Rafael made just 1 less, Adnan Januzaj in 30 minutes made 1 more, and Rooney, Young and Evra comfortably outcrossed him. He also made an equal team high 5 key passes.
So, in a team performance based solely on the tactic of crossing the ball and stretching the play the picture is clear. Mata did not make genuine attempts to get to the byline, he did not cross the ball as much as two players who were clearly playing as wingers (Januzaj and Young) he crossed the ball less than 1 of our full backs, and just once more than the other.
The irony is, that a playmaker playing off one of the flanks is a reasonably modern position, but its being slated as 'shoving Mata out wide' by people who presumably are also making the same argument that Moyes is a tactical dinosaur. Whilst I don't think Moyes deserves the defence it is very obvious that whilst Mata is playing games and we are not winning Moyes will be criticised for how he utilises him regardless of what he actually does.
In comparison, look at the heat map of a right winger in Valencia playing against Cardiff.
Clear differences.
EDIT: feck it MORE STATS.
United average positions vs Fulham
Do I even need to analyse this one or is it becoming obvious that its just an outright lie?
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Good post @NinjaFletch
And I agree with your original point. No reason why Januzaj, Rooney, RVP and Mata cannot play together. That's what we should be aiming for.
And I agree with your original point. No reason why Januzaj, Rooney, RVP and Mata cannot play together. That's what we should be aiming for.
@NinjaFletch Good post mate, been saying this since he arrived. Mata has never been restricted to the right side. Anyone who actually pays attention to his positions during the game can see that. He is allowed to cut in. Positionally he is playing like he always does and he has never been a no.10 either (only for half a season). The problem is with the tactics, not so much the formation. Mata himself has said he can play anywhere. He's got 3 assists in 3 games which is pretty good considering our form. I've been following his career since his Valencia days and watched him throughout his Chelsea stint he has NEVER been a no.10(apart from half of last season) i don't know why people keep saying unless we play him in the middle we will never see the best of him.
Last season he played 24 games in the middle(most in his career) but he was actually more productive from the right side.
Before that he has mostly spent his career on the left side. He won his first Chelsea POTY playing from the left.
Why do some people keep insisting Mata can only play in center when he has spent 80 percent of his career on the left or right as an inside winger with the license to cut in? Why why why?
Last season he played 24 games in the middle(most in his career) but he was actually more productive from the right side.
Before that he has mostly spent his career on the left side. He won his first Chelsea POTY playing from the left.
Why do some people keep insisting Mata can only play in center when he has spent 80 percent of his career on the left or right as an inside winger with the license to cut in? Why why why?
He's a class act. Hope we can turn things around for his sake. He doesn't deserve this.
He's a wonderful player on the ball, it's just a shame that he's out wide. He'd clearly be much better than Rooney currently is behind RVP.
Being stifled on the wing, should really be playing in the middle with 1 striker ahead.
Yup, whenever he's come infield, he's looked most likely to create something. I agree he'd be much better behind RVP but we all know its not gonna happen so atleast he should be tucked in from the right rather than being wasted on the left.
So pointless playing him out wide. He doesn't offer much defensively and it hugely limits his attacking game.
ye we should just play no left sided player away at Arsenal
Just put Rooney left for a spell and get Mata in the middle, Rooney is making the same runs as RVP at times.
Middle>right wing> left wing
He likes to cut in but on the left he cuts in on his week foot so it's harder for him, and then he's not wide in a 4-3-3 so he's not as effective going forward IMO.
He likes to cut in but on the left he cuts in on his week foot so it's harder for him, and then he's not wide in a 4-3-3 so he's not as effective going forward IMO.
No one's suggesting that though?
Play him on the other side and play a proper left winger on the left.
Please let the little fecker play behind RVP. Move Rooney out left and put Januzaj on for Valencia.
He's been swapping on and off with Rooney... I don't really have an opinion which has been better, but I suspect it's been when Rooney is out wide with more space, because his first touch is shit
if you play him on the right he's still 'out wide' which is the post I was originally responding to. We need a play to track back on both wings, since we are away at Arsenal. if you read the post I originally replied to, that implies he shouldn't be played on the wing because he barely contributes getting back anyway, you'll see that someone was actually suggesting not playing a wide defensive player. Having a left winger or a right winger that doesn't track back, makes no difference, they're both bad strategies away to Arsenal
Mata always contributes defensively, its actually something that has surprised me about him as I hadnt noticed it earlier. My point about playing him on the other side was because that suits him offensively.
I agree he contributes defensively... again I wasn't replying to every post in here, just the one that said he shouldn't play out wide b/c he doesn't contribute defensively
Fair enough. Shane did mention it limits him in attack which is true though. He looks better cutting in from the other side which is to be expected considering he's left footed.
His Kagawaisation is underway.
We're limiting a guy who could easily be our best player.
Yes it does limit him in attack, but we have Rooney and Rvp, so my point was, if we play Mata as another attacker, we are then playing 3 attackers away from home at Arsenal... fair enough in some other games, but vs Arsenal away we need to accomodate Mata and that means he has to track back
Can we please, for the love of god, put him in an interchanging three with Rooney and Januzaj behind RVP?
I saw Januzaj warming up and for a brief second allowed myself to get excited, only to almost immediately tell myself 'nah, he's probably replacing Mata'.
I saw Januzaj warming up and for a brief second allowed myself to get excited, only to almost immediately tell myself 'nah, he's probably replacing Mata'.
Brilliant term.
Can that become the new resident term here for a top football being limited by something that's not his own fault?
He'd do okay on the wing if he had any sort of support to build an attack.
I thought he was our best player tonight and once again showed we need to do more to get him involved centrally. He's just so comfortable in tight situations, obv it's hard to tell from a couple of games but I've always thought that's the main weakness we have when playing rooney through the hole, he's just not as good at working himself out of tight situations and then finding a different sort of pass, his is usually the wide pass. Still no reason they both can't play quite central.
On the back of Mata's defensive display today I honestly see no reason why we can't play him and Januzaj/Kagawa. He did his share of the work today no question about it and those two do theres more or less. Plus if Clev actually holds as he did today and Rooney drops deeper as he was then we've got enough defensive strength there and a lot more attacking potential. Plus Mata/Januzaj don't need their fullbacks to help out as much as Young and Valencia do.
On the back of Mata's defensive display today I honestly see no reason why we can't play him and Januzaj/Kagawa. He did his share of the work today no question about it and those two do theres more or less. Plus if Clev actually holds as he did today and Rooney drops deeper as he was then we've got enough defensive strength there and a lot more attacking potential. Plus Mata/Januzaj don't need their fullbacks to help out as much as Young and Valencia do.
But Juan Mata for £37 million....Play him on the left of a 4-4-2.
Thats Moyes logic.
Thats Moyes logic.
We are playing him like City play Silva, maybe a bit wider. It will work as soon as we get a decent midfield. The way it is now, our attacking players is not supported enough by our midfield.
Didn't work today, looks more comfortable coming off the right. But it's early days, you can't expect him to play a blinder every game since day one.
But he tracks back from the right side too as he has done so far?
My point is this. He always puts in a defensive shift from either flank. But going forward, he looks better tucked in from the right rather than the left. Considering its a call between Young and Valencia who are both average, it'd make more sense to get more out of him and play a left winger.
We're all waiting for that to happen mate.
It could be argued though that for as good as Mata is, the priority should have been to get a decent midfield first because we're actually alright for attacking minded players. That's not to say I'm unhappy Mata is here -I'm not since he's clearly a magnificent talent- but it seems obvious that he maybe shouldn't have been our priority.
Decent game but not his best one for us. When he was on the ball though he was quality. Also helped press and dropped deep to defend. That pass to RVP was the only quality through ball in the game from our side and RVP could have done better.
It's depressing seeing him tracking back to the edge of our box on a regular basis. He needs to be moved centrally to get the best out of him, drifting in from wide only happens occasionally as the tactics don't allow for it. When he did pick up the ball centrally, he was a threat with his penetrating passes and movement.
I kinda agree, Rooney's passing is fine once he has the space, he can spot the pass between the defensive lines. His main pb is his first touch that is often not so good and limits what he could do after it.
Was very good tonight I think. I don't have a problem with where he played tonight, I think he still got to move about, and linked when he could with the others. The attacking players in general didn't get much ball in good areas anyway.
why would the time to try this be away to arsenal though? You say 'we all' but I hoped that we wouldn't throw the game away, away to 2nd in table, just to look sexy
I really think we're going to struggle to effectively get Mata-Rooney-Van Persie all in the one team
The problem with us is that most of our attacks go down our flanks. When Mata picks the ball up, he has 1 maybe 2 players ahead of him to pick out. I doubt even Xavi/Iniesta or Scholes could thread a ball to one of those UNLESS we play very quick football like Dortmund. The same can be said of Kagawa. Our slow and laboured build up means that often when our most influential players get on the ball, they're limited to either: 1) Playing the ball to the fullback thus resulting in a cross, 2) Trying to play a wonder ball through a defence to 1 or 2 static players.
City's system does not rely on their midfielders supporting their attacks. Fernandinho stays the furthest back with Yaya hovering around the edge of the box recycling the ball. Its their clever movement and willingness to interchange which makes them so deadly. Same can be said of Chelsea.
Oh yh he's definitely capable I just don't think its as much his strength as it is someone like Mata's. Rooney is better at other things of course in fairness. Agree that it's his first touch that generally lets him down. Like I said hopefully we can get them both involved centrally.
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