Juan Mata - Shall he be our #10?

Cina

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I'm still firmly of the opinion that Mata is the best player in our squad. He was the best player in the league for two seasons before he came to us and at his best he's one of the best and most productive #10's in the game. As such, it frustrates me to no end to see LvG either a) use him on the wing or b) drop him whenever his form dips a bit on the wing, especially when every other player we use at #10 isn't a fecking #10.

So is it just me who thinks it's blindly obvious we should be using him as a #10 and building our attack around that, or are people happy to see him play on the wing/get benched when he doesn't play well there?
 
I kind of like him playing off the ball than on it if it makes sense. He made some exquisite runs into the box from his wide right position last season but a lot of that depends on the understanding he had with Herrera and Valencia in that 4-1-4-1 formation. Now that we have gone to a 4-4-1-1, God knows how that might work out for him, Darmian looks up to par but without Herrera, I doubt another midfielder or Memphis can make that connection work.
 
Cina said:
I'm still firmly of the opinion that Mata is the best player in our squad. He was the best player in the league for two seasons before he came to us and at his best he's one of the best and most productive #10's in the game. As such, it frustrates me to no end to see LvG either a) use him on the wing or b) drop him whenever his form dips a bit on the wing, especially when every other player we use at #10 isn't a fecking #10.

So is it just me who thinks it's blindly obvious we should be using him as a #10 and building our attack around that, or are people happy to see him play on the wing/get benched when he doesn't play well there?
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Couldn't agree with you more, he's immensely talented and we're wasting him a little bit on the wing. I feel like he'll get his go at number 10 and it'll be so obvious we should have played him there sooner.
 
Not for me, I do like Mata but I feel that he does not offer enough work rate, defensive contribution or end product. He obviously has fantastic technical ability, but if you compare his impact on games with other teams primary playmakers (Hazard, Silva, Coutinho, Sanchez etc) I just feel he doesn't offer enough.
 
The only logical reason for not playing him there is because him and Rooney are both a little slow.
 
Yeah hes our most creative player. Probably our most technical as well. He's our best option at number 10 by a distance.
 
I don't agree with him being the best player in the league for the two seasons before he joined us but I'd add my name to the list of people who'd like to see him play at #10.

The only thing I would say is that he's not really being played "out on the wing". He's constantly drifting inwards and with Van Gaal's alleged obsession over positioning on the pitch I suspect this isn't by accident.
 
Might be an after effect of his Adidas photo shoot but i was searching for a thread like this about Mata an hour ago, i think he can be the best player in the league if we play to his strengths by making him the main man in our team with the #10 role, he can also assist Rooney with the goalscoring and contribute about 12-15 goals.
 
Walrus said:
Not for me, I do like Mata but I feel that he does not offer enough work rate, defensive contribution or end product. He obviously has fantastic technical ability, but if you compare his impact on games with other teams primary playmakers (Hazard, Silva, Coutinho, Sanchez etc) I just feel he doesn't offer enough.
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Huh? If anything it's his biggest advantage over other #10's, his end product is immense even when his form isn't.

14/15: 27(6) apps, 9 goals, 4 assists
13/14: 34 apps apps, 11 goals, 10 assists
12/13: 60 apps, 21 goals, 29 assists
11/12: 54 apps, 10 goals, 16 assists

Whatever way you look at it, that's pretty fecking good end product.
 
I'd definitely like to see him there. I also think that LvG would also want to see him there but he uses him on the right as he is our best option there.
 
The one thing that makes me wonder if he is suited to the position for us is how well we did with Fellaini at #10 last season. It seems Van Gaal wants a more physical presence there like Depay so that might mean Mata won't be getting much time there.
 
In games where we expect teams to park the bus, we should be playing a 3 man midfield of Carrick, Herrera and Mata.

Carrick cutting out opposition attacks and distributing the ball. Herrera linking defence with attack, and moving into advanced positions. Mata pulling the strings in the #10 position.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don't agree with him being the best player in the league for the two seasons before he joined us but I'd add my name to the list of people who'd like to see him play at #10.

The only thing I would say is that he's not really being played "out on the wing". He's constantly drifting inwards and with Van Gaal's alleged obsession over positioning on the pitch I suspect this isn't by accident.
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Over two seasons I think he was. Obviously Bale and RvP were better in the respective individual seasons. Mata was unreal in 12/13 though.
 
Walrus said:
Not for me, I do like Mata but I feel that he does not offer enough work rate, defensive contribution or end product. He obviously has fantastic technical ability, but if you compare his impact on games with other teams primary playmakers (Hazard, Silva, Coutinho, Sanchez etc) I just feel he doesn't offer enough.
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regardless of what you feel you're wrong there, check mata's heat maps, he's all over the map and covers alot of milage when we play. Just because he isn't fast or in for a scrap doesn't mean he's not working his socks off, i'll give you defensive workrate but that doesn't absolve him of the position tbh.

He also has the best shot to goal ratio in the league, so you're wrong about end product. Mata won't be no.10 becuase he doesn't fit the profile, whatever the feck that means.
 
Roman Bellic said:
Might be an after effect of his Adidas photo shoot but i was searching for a thread like this about Mata an hour ago, i think he can be the best player in the league if we play to his strengths by making him the main man in our team with the #10 role, he can also assist Rooney with the goalscoring and contribute about 12-15 goals.
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That's why I'd like him there. He's arguably our second most dangerous goal-scorer. Makes sense to try and keep him near the opposition goal.
 
Cina said:
Huh? If anything it's his biggest advantage over other #10's, his end product is immense even when his form isn't.

14/15: 27(6) apps, 9 goals, 4 assists
13/14: 34 apps apps, 11 goals, 10 assists
12/13: 60 apps, 21 goals, 29 assists
11/12: 54 apps, 10 goals, 16 assists

Whatever way you look at it, that's pretty fecking good end product.
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Its similar for me to what we said when discussing Hazard earlier - that I am not looking so much at stats as simple impact on a game. Mata tends to be very neat and tidy, he recycles possession, gets into areas with lots of space, and is actually a really good finisher, but to justify being #10 for a team competing for the league (and ultimately, CL at some point), he either needs to contribute more throughout the game (not talking about goals and assists here), or put up comparable numbers to what he managed at Chelsea.

Personally, my preferred system for us is a backwards facing triangle with two box to box CMs (Herrera and Fellaini) rather than an out-and-out #10, and I would prefer Mata as a #10 to Herrera, Fellaini or Memphis, so I suppose that out of those available he is perhaps the best option after all, but I am not convinced that he is the player we can really look to build our attack around, which is what the #10 should be.
 
Walrus said:
Its similar for me to what we said when discussing Hazard earlier - that I am not looking so much at stats as simple impact on a game. Mata tends to be very neat and tidy, he recycles possession, gets into areas with lots of space, and is actually a really good finisher, but to justify being #10 for a team competing for the league (and ultimately, CL at some point), he either needs to contribute more throughout the game (not talking about goals and assists here), or put up comparable numbers to what he managed at Chelsea.

Personally, my preferred system for us is a backwards facing triangle with two box to box CMs (Herrera and Fellaini) rather than an out-and-out #10, and I would prefer Mata as a #10 to Herrera, Fellaini or Memphis, so I suppose that out of those available he is perhaps the best option after all, but I am not convinced that he is the player we can really look to build our attack around, which is what the #10 should be.
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I think you've pretty accurately summed up Mata at Utd in the first paragraph but certainly not Mata at Chelsea, where he was constantly making things happen. He's obviously playing a far safer game here, likely under the instructions of LvG, and it doesn't help that he's being used out wide.

I'm highly confident that if you play him as a 10 and give him the freedom he needs and you get a far, far bigger impact from him. Sadly it doesn't look like LvG has any intentions of doing that.
 
No. I don’t like the way he plays no10, he’s more of a second striker than a player who will pull the strings. His positioning is fantastic in the final third, but I don’t think of him as a creative force. I would rather see Herrera in advanced position, and Rooney plus two wingers who cut in, Memphis and Pedro I hope.
 
Yes, we should play our only natural #10 in his role. Which is why it won't happen. I can see us playing Memphis, Adnan, Fellaini, Rooney, even Pedro and Herrera over him in that position this season. Playing Mata as a #10 and Memphis as a winger just makes far too much sense....
 
I'd like him to be given a chance there but has Van Gaal even started Mata there once? Doesn't bode well.

Memphis comes in and immediately gets put in that position despite usually playing as a winger.

I'm guessing it's because Van Gaal thinks Mata can't do the pressing job he requires, but I really don't know.
 
Walrus said:
Personally, my preferred system for us is a backwards facing triangle with two box to box CMs (Herrera and Fellaini) rather than an out-and-out #10, and I would prefer Mata as a #10 to Herrera, Fellaini or Memphis, so I suppose that out of those available he is perhaps the best option after all, but I am not convinced that he is the player we can really look to build our attack around, which is what the #10 should be.
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Agreed; once we actually played our best players last season this system served us really well. Van Gaal refers to the system as "number 6, number 8, number 10", but in actual fact there is really two number 8's and one number 6. If we continue that system I'd love to see Carrick, Schwein/Schneid, Herrera behind Mata, Rooney & Depay.

However if we moved to a more traditional 4-3-3, or a 4-2-3-1, I think it's a no brainer. Mata in front of Herrera & either Carrick/Schneiderlin/Schweinsteiger would be fantastic.
 
From what I remember, Mata played in almost every match in the first half of last season. He was mostly used as the most attacking midfielder in a 5-3-2/4-4-2 back then, with Rooney having to play in central midfield at times so Mata could play in a position that suited him best and Van Gaal still had his 'balance' and all that.

Second half of the season I think he was used mostly on the right wing, where he probably had his best matches. In the end he didn't even outscore RVP in the league while being fitter, younger and making more minutes than him. Though they played in different positions, I feel both were attacking players who were basically offering the same qualities to the team (mostly goals, the occasional assist and not too much defensive contribution). I think Mata had a decent season in the end, but definitely not a great one, while playing in his best position for half of the season like mentioned.

Don't see how he is a better player than Wazza, Schweinsteiger or Carrick, so I don't know how he could be the best player in our squad. But the #10 is probably his best position.
 
Borys said:
No. I don’t like the way he plays no10, he’s more of a second striker than a player who will pull the strings. His positioning is fantastic in the final third, but I don’t think of him as a creative force. I would rather see Herrera in advanced position, and Rooney plus two wingers who cut in, Memphis and Pedro I hope.
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I agree with this but who in our current squad is better at pulling the strings? Maybe that responsibility should sit with someone a bit deeper, like Carrick or BFS?
 
It depends on how we setup.

If we're going to persist with how we setup in preseason, I'd much rather have Mata playing where Depay was. If common sense prevails and we setup how we did last season when we went on a good run, I'd leave Mata where he was and not move him to the Fellani or Herrera spot.
 
Walrus said:
Not for me, I do like Mata but I feel that he does not offer enough work rate, defensive contribution or end product. He obviously has fantastic technical ability, but if you compare his impact on games with other teams primary playmakers (Hazard, Silva, Coutinho, Sanchez etc) I just feel he doesn't offer enough.
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The question now would be, do we need work rate from him when we have two DMs sitting behind him? Don't get me wrong everyone has to put a shift in but I feel, with the set up we are aiming for, we no longer require that as much as we need goals and creativity. My concern with Mata is his lack of strength and dominance on the ball but maybe I'm too hung over on his displays earlier in the season to give a fair appraisal in this regard. With regards to end product I think you'd have to go back to Rooney circa 2011-2013 to find a No.10 who compares favourably to what he did at Chelsea around the same period.

The problem I now have with him is that he seems too inclined to play within himself and as such the creative aspects of his game are no longer on show. I don't know if it's a lack of balls on his part or it's LVG's strict regimented style that is limiting him.

If we manage to get Pedro I would like to see him tried there. That trio with Mata coordinating things in the middle, Memphis and Pedro on either side interchanging could very well be the solution to the creative problems we had last season.
 
Your #10 doesn't need to pull the strings though, we have deeper midfielders capable of that. What we do need is a #10 capable of slicing passes and moments of magic, I believe Mata can provide those over anyone else, if given the freedom to do so.
 
Cina said:
Your #10 doesn't need to pull the strings though, we have deeper midfielders capable of that. What we do need is a #10 capable of slicing passes and moments of magic, I believe Mata can provide those over anyone else, if given the freedom to do so.
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Instantly I didn't agree, but the more I looked into it and thought about it, he's apparently very direct, and would probably do better than others there, I'm not sure what he brings that Herrera doesn't though..
 
I understand why Van Gaal wants Memphis in the hole, he provides the directness, pace, power, creativity and goalscoring through the middle that Mata doesn't and something we really lack. Probably gives us more unpredictability, having Memphis in the hole where he can in theory roam to either side and be a threat, or run in behind. Mata in the hole would work great as well though I think, with Pedro and Memphis on the flanks running in behind.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Instantly I didn't agree, but the more I looked into it and thought about it, he's apparently very direct, and would probably do better than others there, I'm not sure what he brings that Herrera doesn't though..
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A lot, he's a better player than Herrera, for starters.

Not sure what the obsession is with Herrera at #10. If anything I'd prefer to see him directly behind Mata.
 
I'd be happy with either Mata/Herrera in a central role, both would be great options but it's likely Mata will stay on the right and Memphis and Rooney will be interchanging up top.
 
Him as number 10 with strong midfielders behind him, and pace in front of him is the ideal scenario for me. The reason he hasn't quite looked his old self here is the lack of movement. If we had Pedro and Memphis splitting defences and creating space, he could have a fantastic season. If we can sign Pedro, then surely the attack picks itself?

Pedro---Mata---Depay
--------Rooney--------

So far we've seen a winger in the hole and a number 10 on the wing all pre-season, but i hope that's just experimentation. That 4 above would surely be the best combination.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I agree with this but who in our current squad is better at pulling the strings? Maybe that responsibility should sit with someone a bit deeper, like Carrick or BFS?
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Right on when you have players like Schweinsteiger and Carrick in midfield you are more in need of a player that can apply the finishing touch to a move and who is certainly able to score a few himself.
 
Cina said:
A lot, he's a better player than Herrera, for starters.

Not sure what the obsession is with Herrera at #10. If anything I'd prefer to see him directly behind Mata.
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I suppose his link up play is brilliant, like Mata, but Herrera scored some memorable longer range drives for me and he's good at running into the box, hence why I'd naturally choose him there, but I'd be very happy with Mata alternatively.

Januzaj Pereira Lingard all need more time on the wing before they can command a central spot IMO
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I agree with this but who in our current squad is better at pulling the strings? Maybe that responsibility should sit with someone a bit deeper, like Carrick or BFS?
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We don’t have such a player who can control games in more advanced positions. Both Carrick and Schweinsteiger can do it sitting deep so that’s good enough for me.

The problem with Mata and two DMs is that he would stay high, so there would be a gap between him and midfielders. We could tell him to play deeper but Herrera is much better in that role anyway.
 
IMO, most important thing for every #10 is the striker, number ten simply has to have a striker who complements them and I can't see Rooney and Mata working well at all.

Ideally, to bring the best out of Mata, we should have quick striker who is good at keeping the ball with players on their back, both things Mata isn't really great at, and with Rooney up front we would have two players who don't provide either of those things which could be a big problem, IMO.

I would like to see Mata playing as #10 for us, but there is no way I can see him and Rooney working well together.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
Him as number 10 with strong midfielders behind him, and pace in front of him is the ideal scenario for me. The reason he hasn't quite looked his old self here is the lack of movement. If we had Pedro and Memphis splitting defences and creating space, he could have a fantastic season. If we can sign Pedro, then surely the attack picks itself?

Pedro---Mata---Depay
--------Rooney--------

So far we've seen a winger in the hole and a number 10 on the wing all pre-season, but i hope that's just experimentation. That 4 above would surely be the best combination.
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I'd agree with this. We simply haven't had the wingers available with the intelligence and speed required to make Mata a success. At the minute, I still think Depay is a ball carrying winger who wants to do things by himself, but I think he can be moulded into an intelligent runner. Pedro is exactly the player we'd need for this system.

If a team plays deep against us, it gives Mata all the space to hurt them. If they press high, the space is in behind for Pedro and Depay.
 
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