I wasn't so much talking about you; more the poster that I initially quoted. Clearly referenced my opinion, but instead of showing me where I'm spouting nonsense, he just made a sarcastic comment.
I don't mind Mata, but I think that his Chelsea performances/stats will only be repeated if he joins a lesser team who don't look to dominate and keep possession as much, and can give him complete freedom, as well as allowance to not defend ultra-effectively.
Unfortunately you could say that about a lot of players at United. Hopefully we can start taking some risks. We have become unadventurous.It is crazy how his passing seems to have gotten "safe' when he's joined Utd whereas I remember many dangerous low and high passes between the lines when he was at Chelsea.
It is crazy how his passing seems to have gotten "safe' when he's joined Utd whereas I remember many dangerous low and high passes between the lines when he was at Chelsea.
I'm still firmly of the opinion that Mata is the best player in our squad. He was the best player in the league for two seasons before he came to us and at his best he's one of the best and most productive #10's in the game. As such, it frustrates me to no end to see LvG either a) use him on the wing or b) drop him whenever his form dips a bit on the wing, especially when every other player we use at #10 isn't a fecking #10.
So is it just me who thinks it's blindly obvious we should be using him as a #10 and building our attack around that, or are people happy to see him play on the wing/get benched when he doesn't play well there?
Yep. Anyone who says Mata isn't creative or lacks a killer pass must not have seen much of him at Chelsea. You don't rack up nearly 30 assists in a season by not being creative.Whilst I agree, I think one slight excuse would be that you can only really play dangerous passes when you've got good movement around you... and our movement these last two years has ranged somewhere between shite and non-existant.
Look at the way Herrera and Mata knock intricate little passes between them, into space and into dangerous areas (though unfortunately all down the right) and thats a little glimpse I think of what Mata (and Herrera) can do in a more fluid team.
Unfortunately you could say that about a lot of players at United. Hopefully we can start taking some risks. We have become unadventurous.
I think he's best at number 10 and the best out and out number 10 we have, but also that he has regressed and isn't the player he once was, or at least hasn't been so, wherever we've played him.I'm still firmly of the opinion that Mata is the best player in our squad. He was the best player in the league for two seasons before he came to us and at his best he's one of the best and most productive #10's in the game. As such, it frustrates me to no end to see LvG either a) use him on the wing or b) drop him whenever his form dips a bit on the wing, especially when every other player we use at #10 isn't a fecking #10.
So is it just me who thinks it's blindly obvious we should be using him as a #10 and building our attack around that, or are people happy to see him play on the wing/get benched when he doesn't play well there?
I agree, we were great against those teams, so why is he changing it again? Surely the players that were in that that team have earned the chance to reproduce that form. The new players should have to earn their place. Now we have yet another number of players having to settle into the pace of the PL. The position we need to strengthen with regards to experience was CB and he hasn't done that.I don't think that's completely true. We tore the likes of City, Spurs and Liverpool apart at times during our good spell last season, playing very adventurous football and Mata happened to be at his best during that spell. We've been unadventurous against the teams that have sat back however, which definitely needs to be sorted this season.
I dont think he's as creative as Silva, but I don’t see that as his biggest problem.I don't think I agree with the notion that he has to play for a lesser team to succeed. I honestly believe that this idea that he cannot play creative passes is a myth. He isn't Silva for example. I know that. But you don't get assist after assist by not playing a killer pass.
I dont think he's as creative as Silva, but I don’t see that as his biggest problem.
His best skills are his ability to position himself in high positions to score or assist, and obviously his set plays.
But his weaknesses are his strength, holding of the ball, beating of men, turning with the ball.
His passing between lines and behind defences isn't remarkable, in my opinion (more his ability to position himself well in the box, in order to assist) but I don’t see that as a huge problem.
The problem is that his best skills and biggest weaknesses translate into a player not made for slow possession play. Those spaces that he likes to find in the box become harder to find, when the play is high and slow. What you need is a number 10 who can sit in the hole, and hold the ball exceptionally well. Which is where Silva would suit it, but Mata doesn't.
8 assists since joining us (1.5 years), even Rooney has had more. Not the best #10 at United.20 goals and 28 assists in 2012/13; he's the best #10 at the club. I really don't think he's well-suited to playing out wide in Van Gaal's new 4-4-1-1 system.
8 assists since joining us (1.5 years), even Rooney has had more. Not the best #10 at United.
8 assists since joining us (1.5 years), even Rooney has had more. Not the best #10 at United.
I don't think we will play the 433 with the triangle pointing up. He will likely feature on RW again.
I'd play him there, but i'm not sure he's a Van Gaal number 10, which surprises me, as he picks up really good numbers from that position. I guess the issue is that he doesn't do much running off the ball, and with how Memphis has been playing in pre season, it's clear that he wants his 10 to run in behind and give some 'variation in attack', which, to be fair, was lacking massively from our attack last season.
I'd play him there, but i'm not sure he's a Van Gaal number 10, which surprises me, as he picks up really good numbers from that position. I guess the issue is that he doesn't do much running off the ball, and with how Memphis has been playing in pre season, it's clear that he wants his 10 to run in behind and give some 'variation in attack', which, to be fair, was lacking massively from our attack last season.
Mata is the type of player that performs better when the quality of the team gets higher, I would love it if Van Gaal plays to Mata and Herrera's strength, we'll be much better off as a team if that happens.
Can I ask, what actually suggests the bit in bold to be true?Mata is the type of player that performs better when the quality of the team gets higher, I would love it if Van Gaal plays to Mata and Herrera's strength, we'll be much better off as a team if that happens.
Can I ask, what actually suggests the bit in bold to be true?
He's not fast enough to create space for himself, but with better team mates who can open up space for him, he'll wreck havoc with his with passing and shooting. His time with us have been rather underwhelming as compared to his stint at Chelsea because Rooney was forced to track back and support our weak midfield, RVP seemingly playing most games injured and Wilson looking like a lost puppy on the pitch.Can I ask, what actually suggests the bit in bold to be true?
Their attack was still better than ours since Mata got here.His time at Chelsea fairly disproves that notion. He was surrounded by dross.
He's not fast enough to create space for himself, but with better team mates who can open up space for him, he'll wreck havoc with his with passing and shooting. His time with us have been rather underwhelming as compared to his stint at Chelsea because Rooney was forced to track back and support our weak midfield, RVP seemingly playing most games injured and Wilson looking like a lost puppy on the pitch.
Fair enough. I haven't seen much of Memphis, but I assume that he dribbles players and holds the ball better. He's also a more physical player, but more of a risk taker. It also remains to be seen whether Memphis will indeed play there long term.I don't think that is true. That is dependent on how you want your no.10 to play. It's very interesting you say that is what our no.10 should be, yet we are currently playing Depay there who will absolutely not do that.
I think a player like Mata actually becomes even more important when there is no space to exploit because he has the intelligence and know-how to find those small spaces. And when he does, he will get assists and goals because he doesn't faff around.
I don't deny that Mata being the creative hub of our team isn't the best strategy. But what I do know, is that against teams that are parking the bus, and we are dominating, then we can definitely accomodate Mata in that position and add the creativity around him a-la Herrera.
Also for the record, I am not opposed to him being on the right. I think if we scrap this notion that someone on the wing has to be a winger, then actually there is a good role for Mata there as someone who roams inside and takes up positions on the inside rather than beating his man on the outside. Especially now that we have a real right back and there isn't a significant amount to worry about with him going forward in this scenario of a team sitting back. I just overall feel he would be more effective in the middle.
Ba, Oscar, Hazard and Lampard were performing at a higher level than whoever we played, and neither were we close to winning the title the past 2 seasons.The Chelsea team he played in was full of dross. An ageing Drobga and fecking Torres up top. He didn't come close to winning the title at Chelsea.
It makes perfect sense why Moyes went for him now. "We're shit, Mata thrives in shit teams, bring him here and we'll win the CL."he's not great when the team are actually dominant. He's only great when the team is less dominant and give him freedom.
Rooney had no assists in the second half of the season when Moyes was here? He had 6 assists this season.Erm, no he doesn't.
In the year and a half Mata has been here, Rooney has 6 assists, Mata has 8.
As an aside, Rooney has 20 goals in comparison to Mata's 15...
