Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Random Task]

@ShadesOfTomato

Jose Mourinho was manager of Porto (a relative minnow by comparison to other giants of the game at the time) and led them to a CL title and domestic success, after which he went on to become the single most successful football manager in the modern game.

The comparison between Klopp and Jose is an extremely one-sided argument.

 

[el3mel]

Feck it, I'm gonna bite - even though your brain seems programmed to ignore common sense.

Do you not think if Klopp opted to manage Bayern, Madrid or City he'd not be winning trophies left right or centre? Or vice versa - if Ancelotti, Zidane or Guardiola went and managed clubs in the state Liverpool/Dortmund were in when he took them over they'd be half as successful?

As for Simeone, he's one of the best but he has won one less league title in a longer stint at Athletico than Klopp at Dortmund.

With this logic, no manager will ever fail at Madrid or Barca. Turns out lots have failed.

 

[Cascarino]

Definitely, we have a serious blindspot with players that show absolutely no consistency whatsoever and an obsession with youth.

To be fair I do think you lot are generally pretty balanced on here, especially compared to other forums.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Brilliant common sense there...

Who needs to actually win 2 Champions league trophies when you can work using hypotheticals. In fact, who needs to create one of the best teams in the history of the game or be the first ever manager to win back to back CLs when you can just be Klopp and do it in theory?

Let's just get rid of managers altogether because anyone can be a serial winner if they manager a top team...I wonder why Klopp hasn't done it if it's so easy?

He has been a serial winner at Dortmund with back to back league titles?

You're running this idea under the assumption that literally any manager with a modicum of tactical nous is guaranteed success whilst managing any of the aformentioned clubs? Doesn't really say much for Klopp then.

Doesn't say much how? Winning the CL with Liverpool is a much more difficult task than with a side like Madrid.

I'm running this under the assumption that a manager who can twice build one of the (if not the) most formidable sides in Europe with limited resources, at clubs whom were in relative turmoil upon his arrival, can achieve similar success at super clubs whom have unlimited resources and ready made squads. It's not really a ridiculous assumption.

With this logic, no manager will ever fail at Madrid or Barca. Turns out lots have failed.

Especially when you have managers such as Valverde, Rijkaard, Luis Enrique, Zidane, Pellegrini, Mancini, LVG, Di Matteo in recent years whom have won major honours and will struggle to replicate anything like that at a different club.

 

[Jayus20]

Well, that is what I alluded as well. Why did he go for weaker clubs? why didn't a bigger club want or take him? Also, Jose was manging Portuguese clubs before he got his move to Chelsea.

How do you know no bigger clubs wanted to take him? Maybe he rathers a challenge and restoring former glory of a team than one which comes ready made. It's like asking why do people build a new house rather than go buy one, answers pretty simple.

 

[Random Task]

How do you know no bigger clubs wanted to take him? Maybe he rathers a challenge and restoring former glory of a team than one which comes ready made. It's like asking why do people build a new house rather than go buy one, answers pretty simple.

Klopp's been managing Liverpool for 3 years and he is still no closer to 'returning them to former glory'. Brendan Rogers achieved more with your club and in a shorter time frame.

 

[el3mel]

Especially when you have managers such as Valverde, Rijkaard, Luis Enrique, Zidane, Pellegrini, Mancini, LVG, Di Matteo in recent years whom have won major honours and will struggle to replicate anything like that at a different club.

I don't understand the logic of adding the likes of Rijkaard, Zidane, Pellegrini and LVG here. Rijkaard was a top manager at his time, he just had nothing new to add to the team by 2008 but before it he was a top manager, not just benefited from Barca side. Zidane only managed one team and did something no other manager in Real history did. Pellegrini won the league and LC double that saint Pep did after spending 500m and LVG best success was at Ajax not even Barca ?

You're asking what will Zidane do if he manages BVB/Pool and I'm asking you, if it's the case no manager would have failed at Madrid or Barca but loads have failed and got sacked. Why did a moron like Tata failed miserably with Barca and why did no other manager in Madrid history managed to win 2 or 3 CLs in a row ?

These clubs have great players but without proper coaching to them they wouldn't have achieved this. Klopp is a very good manager as I said previously and he did pretty well for BVB and Pool but I don't find a single reason a finals bottler like him would have achieved what Zidane did at Madrid, something that even top managers as Jose and Carlo couldn't (to not just win it but maintain CL dominance for next 2/3 years ). Feels disrespectful for them.

 

[ti vu]

How do you know no bigger clubs wanted to take him? Maybe he rathers a challenge and restoring former glory of a team than one which comes ready made. It's like asking why do people build a new house rather than go buy one, answers pretty simple.

There are a bunch of other clubs which are sleeping giant. Why not take the more miserable one against more dominant force? And restoring is different to building. PL lost the dominant force and each season seems to have different pack leader. By your logic it's a more of trying to be opportunist than taking challenge.

 

[Random Task]

Doesn't say much how? Winning the CL with Liverpool is a much more difficult task than with a side like Madrid.

I'm running this under the assumption that a manager who can twice build one of the (if not the) most formidable sides in Europe with limited resources, at clubs whom were in relative turmoil upon his arrival, can achieve similar success at super clubs whom have unlimited resources and ready made squads. It's not really a ridiculous assumption.

Ridiculous? No. Absolutely false? Yes.

How can you possibly refer to Dortmund and Liverpool as 'formidable European sides' when neither have won a CL title under Klopp? Ludicrous suggestion.

 

[montpelier]

I don't really see how a Manager contributes to their team ''bottling'' a series of Finals but I suppose it is possible.

More likely to be bad luck, losing to a better team or making a straightforwardly bad decision or two isn't it?

I mean, at least he gets them to the Final & semis are quite big games usually aren't they?

I'm hoping that you're right, mind - .

 

[Jayus20]

Klopp's been managing Liverpool for 3 years and he is still no closer to 'returning them to former glory'. Brendan Rogers achieved more with your club and in a shorter time frame.

"No closer to 'returning them to former glory" weren't you watching last night? We're a hell of a lot closer than we were before he arrived and he's only been here for 2.5 years and this is only his second full season. In what world did Brendan Rodgers achieve more than Klopp? Firstly Rodgers didn't even win a trophy and you guys seem to love judging achievements in terms of trophies and secondly Rodgers in his second full season got us 2nd, we're 3rd right now and practically in the UCL final, I think I know which I'd rather mate. You can't honestly believe the things that you're saying? By your logic this team is no better than the one he took over in 2015/16 and if you truly believe that then you're clueless. Otherwise he clearly is closer to 'returning them to former glory' as the team is far better which in turn means our chances of winnings things are higher which in turn means we're closer. Great logic from you though :')

 

[fck]

Always funny seeing "fans" lose the plot when discussing opposing players and coaches. Klopp is doing a very very good job right now and that is undeniable.

 

[ti vu]

"No closer to 'returning them to former glory" weren't you watching last night? We're a hell of a lot closer than we were before he arrived and he's only been here for 2.5 years and this is only his second full season. In what world did Brendan Rodgers achieve more than Klopp? Firstly Rodgers didn't even win a trophy and you guys seem to love judging achievements in terms of trophies and secondly Rodgers in his second full season got us 2nd, we're 3rd right now and practically in the UCL final, I think I know which I'd rather mate. You can't honestly believe the things that you're saying? By your logic this team is no better than the one he took over in 2015/16 and if you truly believe that then you're clueless. Otherwise he clearly is closer to 'returning them to former glory' as the team is far better which in turn means our chances of winnings things are higher which in turn means we're closer. Great logic from you though :')

Brendon Rodgers nearly won the league! League title is more important as far as what we witness over the year. It's predictable for L'pool to hype up the current manager to heaven just to downplay them using same argument people did when they still held the position (see Rodger). I remember how smug some were when they're nearly win the league and Benitez was severely downplayed

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Plenty of sensible managers miss signings like that. We're weak at LB too but didn't go for him.

We still had Shaw with the likes of Young and Blind as decent cover. We'd have been stupid to go for him too. We just look silly now because Shaw hasn't worked out yet. Robertson was frankly an easy signing to make for any competent boss and of the top 6 Liverpool had the immediate need. Thus rightly he ended up with Klopp.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I agree with you, but he was very underrated by the average football fan because he played for Hull. Same with Maguire.

He’s a great fit for Klopp.

IMO he'd fit in anywhere. A very talented lad. I was very happy a top 6 side picked him up from Hull

 

[Liver_bird]

Nope. He´s just trying to talk up Lovren and subconsciously associate him with Hummels. Now all he needs is one brilliant CL game from Lovren in the next month, and some mid table team in England with too much money will be like you know Klopp is right, he´s like Hummels. *cough* West Ham *cough* Boom SOLD.

If he was going to sell him he would have. unfortunately he's a Klopp favourite.

 

[Random Task]

"No closer to 'returning them to former glory" weren't you watching last night? We're a hell of a lot closer than we were before he arrived and he's only been here for 2.5 years and this is only his second full season. In what world did Brendan Rodgers achieve more than Klopp? Firstly Rodgers didn't even win a trophy and you guys seem to love judging achievements in terms of trophies and secondly Rodgers in his second full season got us 2nd, we're 3rd right now and practically in the UCL final, I think I know which I'd rather mate. You can't honestly believe the things that you're saying? By your logic this team is no better than the one he took over in 2015/16 and if you truly believe that then you're clueless. Otherwise he clearly is closer to 'returning them to former glory' as the team is far better which in turn means our chances of winnings things are higher which in turn means we're closer. Great logic from you though :')

Impossible to judge Liverpool managers on their trophy accumulation because your club simply do not win them. So I opt for the next best thing. Rogers achieved more than Klopp in terms of league position finishes. But for the orgasm inducing collapse to the might of Crystal Palace, Liverpool would have won the title under his leadership.

Under Klopp Liverpool have finished 8th, 4th and probably 4th again, which is hardly what I would call 'returning Liverpool to former glory'. Klopp has achieved no more than Rogers or any other Liverpool manager from the past 3 decades. One good cup run does not alter this fact.

Any Liverpool fan worth their salt wants to win the league again above all else. Do you deny this?

 

[hasanejaz88]

Mourinho has certainly won trophies with unfancied sides like Porto and Inter, but the Inter UCL win was 8 years back and since then Mourinho hasn't accomplished anything out of the ordinary. Yes he has won league titles but those were with very strong sides, which were soon followed by disappointing seasons as well. If you want to go by past achievements then Van Gaal would still be a great manager today.

Klopp today compared to Mourinho is not as far off as people would want to suggest here. The real difference though is in the playing styles, which is why I think Klopp fans (including myself) and Mourinho fans bicker so much, it's not just an argument between two managers but two vastly different philosophies about how the game must be played. Either manager can end up having average seasons but the fans will still argue for them because it's the playing style which attracts them, and they will defend because of that.

In the end, it's obviously a decision of what your taste is. I personally want to enjoy watching a team play so I prefer Klopp's action style, even if it may result in defensive calamities.

 

[Random Task]

Always funny seeing "fans" lose the plot when discussing opposing players and coaches. Klopp is doing a very very good job right now and that is undeniable.

Now where did I put that plot...

 

[mu4c_20le]

Always funny seeing "fans" lose the plot when discussing opposing players and coaches. Klopp is doing a very very good job right now and that is undeniable.

Nah I disagree, he is only doing a very good job at the moment. No need for hyperbole now.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

How do you know no bigger clubs wanted to take him? Maybe he rathers a challenge and restoring former glory of a team than one which comes ready made. It's like asking why do people build a new house rather than go buy one, answers pretty simple.

Fair enough. Then let's have a conversation after the 'glory' has been returned and the 'house' has been built. Till then stop comparing him and Jose.

 

[It's B Rubble]

Yep, it’s lie these “United fans” are trying to rub pools win over city in our face which is bad enough let alone the fact we have beaten them both and are ahead of pool in the league. It’s a mixture of oppo fans masquerading as United fans or the Jose out brigade with a sprinkling of klopp hipsters

The Klopp hipsters fit right in with the Poch hipsters and Tuchel hipsters but detest the Simeone hipsters.. and all support United

 

[EyeInTheSky]

The Klopp hipsters fit right in with the Poch hipsters and Tuchel hipsters but detest the Simeone hipsters.. and all support United

It’s puke worthy. It’s turned into a kardashian gossip trash magazine type mess

 

[BigRedScouser]

Under Klopp Liverpool have finished 8th, 4th and probably 4th again, which is hardly what I would call 'returning Liverpool to former glory'. Klopp has achieved no more than Rogers or any other Liverpool manager from the past 3 decades. One good cup run does not alter this fact.

Any Liverpool fan worth their salt wants to win the league again above all else. Do you deny this?

One good cup run, i.e. winning the Champions League, absolutely would alter that fact completely.

I would contest that assertion. Of course every Liverpool fan desperately wants our title drought to end but the CL is still the bigger trophy. I don't know anyone who'd trade #5 in for anything and I'm sure I'd feel the same if we won #6. Especially if we beat Real Madrid in the final.

 

[Heath.1967]

Mourinho has certainly won trophies with unfancied sides like Porto and Inter, but the Inter UCL win was 8 years back and since then Mourinho hasn't accomplished anything out of the ordinary. Yes he has won league titles but those were with very strong sides, which were soon followed by disappointing seasons as well. If you want to go by past achievements then Van Gaal would still be a great manager today.

Klopp today compared to Mourinho is not as far off as people would want to suggest here. The real difference though is in the playing styles, which is why I think Klopp fans (including myself) and Mourinho fans bicker so much, it's not just an argument between two managers but two vastly different philosophies about how the game must be played. Either manager can end up having average seasons but the fans will still argue for them because it's the playing style which attracts them, and they will defend because of that.

In the end, it's obviously a decision of what your taste is. I personally want to enjoy watching a team play so I prefer Klopp's action style, even if it may result in defensive calamities.

mate, inter 2010 team was insanely good,and very very underrated

 

[Random Task]

One good cup run, i.e. winning the Champions League, absolutely would alter that fact completely.

I would contest that assertion. Of course every Liverpool fan desperately wants our title drought to end but the CL is still the bigger trophy. I don't know anyone who'd trade #5 in for anything and I'm sure I'd feel the same if we won #6. Especially if we beat Real Madrid in the final.

It would alter that fact if they win the CL, but they haven't won anything yet and most likely won't. They do not hand out a trophy for reaching the final.

The league title is the Holy Grail for any true scouser (at least it is for the ones I know). The CL was barely talking point among Liverpool fans prior to this cup run, now all of a sudden they find themselves on the cusp of the final and the priorities have changed? That's convenient. I don't buy it.

 

[Kaos]

I don’t hate him and resent the fact he’s not our manager instead of Mourinho.

There I said it. Do your worst.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Jose with his much vaunted winning capabilities and despite managing United for two seasons, Madrid for 3 seasons and Chelsea for 3 seasons only has 2 titles in that time span, during the same time span Klopp has 2 himself. Football is ever changing, no reason digging up the distant past. It's clear football has changed post Guardiola, teams are far more aggressive off the ball than ever before. The top teams seem to want to attack all the time. It's sadly a revolution that Mou isn't part of.

 

[haram]

Feck it, I'm gonna bite - even though your brain seems programmed to ignore common sense.

Do you not think if Klopp opted to manage Bayern, Madrid or City he'd not be winning trophies left right or centre? Or vice versa - if Ancelotti, Zidane or Guardiola went and managed clubs in the state Liverpool/Dortmund were in when he took them over they'd be half as successful?

As for Simeone, he's one of the best but he has won one less league title in a longer stint at Athletico than Klopp at Dortmund.

Simeone was up against Real and Barca. Lets not pretend that Bayern side Klopp was up against was the same one that dominated every year after the Dortmund titles.

 

[Skolden]

Klopps comments after a draw/lost is very very rude and classless. Always blaming the other team/pitch/ref etc.

It was exactly the same when he was at Dortmund and having problems.

Sure his football is fun to watch when the other team is naive and let them play the way they want but how many games have a Salah on godmode saved them this season?

Liverpool will most likely finish 3/4 in the league again and it is only the Champion League run that makes the season look like a success.

 

[Craig Ward]

Lovren makes more mistakes than Hummels.

Hummels is world class

Given the choice between the 2 - there isn't a sane manager in world football who would pick Lovren ahead of Hummels.

Its like comparing Scholes and Kleberson

 

[Bergman]

Lovren makes more mistakes than Hummels.

Hummels is world class

Given the choice between the 2 - there isn't a sane manager in world football who would pick Lovren ahead of Hummels.

Its like comparing Scholes and Kleberson

Lovren is mediocre no doubt, but Hummels is very overated. More like comparing Henderson to Pogba.

 

[Wade3]

Klopps comments after a draw/lost is very very rude and classless. Always blaming the other team/pitch/ref etc.

It was exactly the same when he was at Dortmund and having problems.

Sure his football is fun to watch when the other team is naive and let them play the way they want but how many games have a Salah on godmode saved them this season?

Liverpool will most likely finish 3/4 in the league again and it is only the Champion League run that makes the season look like a success.

Downplaying a CL run and reaching the top 4 is ridiculous. Even if it's Liverpool, one has to admit they've had a good season no matter what.

 

[IronCroos37]

Dortmund under Klopp

6th
5th
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
7th

So he took a 'broke' Dortmund team, made them a top team, then 'broke' them back to where they were.

What is it with Pool fans and their delusion about Klopp? What's wrong with just calling him a good manager like he is. Instead you try to cherry pick his career while ignoring all the negatives so you can paint him as one of the best managers in the world.

Klopp is god in dortmund, so what if he broke them again. They won, they had fun thanks to him. Club kept loosing key players because of wages, because of Bayern monopoly. I would take Mourinho to win some titles then broke us again.

Chelsea is doing this thing since Abra took over. Win-broke-change manager-win again-broke-etc .... They won trophies on a constant.

As for Klopp, he is indeed pushing Pool forward.

 

[Skolden]

Downplaying a CL run and reaching the top 4 is ridiculous. Even if it's Liverpool, one has to admit they've had a good season no matter what.

They are having a good season.
But if they dont win the CL they will have another year of not winning anything.

Since their last CL win 2005 they have one trophy and that is the Carling cup 6 years ago.
Main focus for Klopp must be to win stuff to get a winner mentality in the squad.

 

[BigRedScouser]

It would alter that fact if they win the CL, but they haven't won anything yet and most likely won't. They do not hand out a trophy for reaching the final.

The league title is the Holy Grail for any true scouser (at least it is for the ones I know). The CL was barely talking point among Liverpool fans prior to this cup run, now all of a sudden they find themselves on the cusp of the final and the priorities have changed? That's convenient. I don't buy it.

It's stupid to make any judgements about the season until it's over. To talk about our cup run as though it is over, and just a cup run, when we've got one foot in the final is stupid as hell.

I don't know what Liverpool fans you've been talking to but I really don't think you know what you're talking about. European nights were the things I've heard most about this season. CL nights are the highlight of the season for any match-going fans. We didn't have much dreams of winning it for sure. That the run is as unexpected as it is is partly why it would be so satisfying, particularly the way we have gone about it.

 

[Random Task]

It's stupid to make any judgements about the season until it's over. To talk about our cup run as though it is over, and just a cup run, when we've got one foot in the final is stupid as hell.

I don't know what Liverpool fans you've been talking to but I really don't think you know what you're talking about. European nights were the things I've heard most about this season. CL nights are the highlight of the season for any match-going fans. We didn't have much dreams of winning it for sure. That the run is as unexpected as it is is partly why it would be so satisfying, particularly the way we have gone about it.

It's still just a cup run until, God forbid, you actually win the thing. I'm quite sure we'll be having a very different conversation should the unthinkable happen, but until the moment Jordan Henderson lifts the trophy, a cup run it remains.

No offense mate but I'm calling lies here. I know fair few Liverpool fans to be honest (the missus is a scouser for a start!) and each and every one of them would opt to end 3 decades of pain and suffering without a moments hesitation. Obviously winning the CL would be a monumental achievement all things considered, but the Holy Grail it is not.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

They've been fortunate this season in my opinion, in many regards. Their path to the final is one of the easiest i can recall in recent memory and add to that the favours they'd had from referees along the way. And also while they are comfortable top 4 and have been for most of the season they are in a way lucky just how bad Chelsea and Arsenal have been in the league this season, ourselves and City have been always looked comfortably the 2 strongest teams in the league but Liverpool and Spurs are lucky that Chelsea and Arsenal have had horrible league campaigns otherwise they'd be in a dogfight for 3rd/4th place.

 

[dmode]

Come on, they are good, their gameplay is enjoyable, even better than us at the moment, means how good they are isn't it? Give credit where credit is due.

It's hard, but no one requested us to flop against Sevilla.

End of.

 

[TheoY]

It would alter that fact if they win the CL, but they haven't won anything yet and most likely won't. They do not hand out a trophy for reaching the final.

The league title is the Holy Grail for any true scouser (at least it is for the ones I know). The CL was barely talking point among Liverpool fans prior to this cup run, now all of a sudden they find themselves on the cusp of the final and the priorities have changed? That's convenient. I don't buy it.

It's true that because of the drought and the whole 'most successful club in England' affair, that it makes perfect sense for the fans of Liverpool to conside a PL title as top priority.

But a sixth CL title is huge. And when Liverpool goes back to winning league titles, the CL that could be won this year will take even more value when the domestic drought ends. The Champions League IS the bigger trophy anyway, if you set aside domestic connotations regarding other teams and years past from last trophy.