So you supported Liverpool since the Houllier days then suddenly decided some Liverpool fans were racists (most clubs have at least some racist elements in their support based on my observations), and now you're anti-Liverpool and don't really support anyone?For the astroturfers, as long as you mindlessly spend your money on the club, they don't care.
Btw, I always supported them since the days of Houllier until I actually saw how racist some actually were. Now there's a bit of ambivalence. I've never been a Man Utd supporter though but I respect them.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
pants on fireFor the astroturfers, as long as you mindlessly spend your money on the club, they don't care.
Btw, I always supported them since the days of Houllier until I actually saw how racist some actually were. Now there's a bit of ambivalence. I've never been a Man Utd supporter though but I respect them.
I supported Liverpool since 2001 and remember my first memory of football is watching Hamann and Gerrard play against Charlton in the white kit in 2001. I celebrated when Gerrard scored the winner in the LC Final against Man Utd even though I was the only one in my school that supported them (not from UK). I remember even when we were 1st in 2003 and Owen scored twice against West Ham to go top and boasting to everyone else who were Utd fans (and then Liverpool dropped well off after that). When I actually went to Liverpool it was nothing like I imagined. Honestly scousers are like rednecks and Anfield wasn't what I expected. I'm not anti-Liverpool. I still watch their games but I don't really feel the same affinity anymore. It's hard to explain but I just don't feel like I can identify with the club as much as I used to anymore but I have watched every single game this season so far and rooted for them in each game.
You're strange for thinking it's strange.
Right.
Needs to stop whinging about tiredness and either build a proper squad or gamble with weakened teams once in a while to give the first team a rest. Look at the bigger picture and not just pick the de facto starting XI week in week out. When I look at the way Sarri has handled Hazard post World Cup one wonders if Klopp has it in him to do so with likes of Salah.
He does and probably will in the next couple of gameweeks if his goal scoring doesn't improve.
Problem is that he's such a good player, you want him on the pitch and you're hoping that the current match is the one where he'll rediscover his form. Salah has still been causing problems for defenders and whilst he's doing that, Klopp will be reluctant to drop him
Pains me to say it but he's done a very good job so far at Liverpool. I just hope their seasons peters out and this season is another false dawn with respect to the elusive league title.
The good thing (is it ?) is that the current champions are a better footballing side than them, which even without their talisman, showed on the weekend.
The good thing (is it ?) is that the current champions are a better footballing side than them, which even without their talisman, showed on the weekend.
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Yep. City don’t need to be in top gear to win this title whereas you feel Liverpool do. Having said that Liverpool have been very efficient in the start of this season and without any of their forwards catching fire or Keira settling in so that could be ominous. I do think that they are susceptible to burn out and Klopp needs to adapt his team selection to counter that issue - he should have learnt his lesson by now.
Yes, but it's also fair to say that has not coached top sides the whole time. Had he been given a team like Bayern Munich, Manchester City, Bayern or Real Madrid, he would have won a few trophies for sure. At Dortmund he had to go through a rebuilding process first just to lose Götze and Lewandowski when he was doing well. At Liverpool it's been the same.
That's a fair point. Personally, I think he's now a much better manager than Mourinho.
Loads of the best have achieved with clubs smaller than liverpool though. I do accept your point but surely he can win something if hes so incredible
Liverpool are a big club, but when Klopp signed for them in 2015 they also had a huge handicap due to
a) Participating in a very hard league.
b) Not having won the league since 1990! (Eliminates the sense of urgency and winning mentality imo).
c) Having finished 6th the previous seasons, which made them Europa League material.
Three years later his team are seriously competing for the league and have reached the CL final the previous season, which is a huge improvement from my point of view.
I perfectly understand your point and of course he should be asked to win trophies sooner than later, but for me he belongs to a category which is different to the one where Heynckess, Ancelotti or Guardiola, to name a few, participate.
I really hate that coaches like Zidane, who took one of the top2 teams (arguably) and won the CL is getting more praise than Klopp who not only took over very average teams, but plays amazing attacking football as well.
Zidane won the CL 3 times now, which is an achievement in itself, but I would take Klopp over Ancelotti and others like him every minute of the day.
Again I see fully the point you’re making and I don’t mean to underrate him hugely just argue that he is significantly over rated. Forgetting even the league or champions league, he has yet to win a cup with Liverpool full stop and last won the German super cup in 2014. People can scoff at mourinho for example only winning the league cup or Europa league or even the ‘over the hill van gaal’ winning the fa cup, but these guys don’t win by accident. They win because that’s what they do. Klopp may well find himself in that category but his esteem at the moment is inflated by an attacking style and a bizarre persona that some people find endearing.
Conte won titles at juventus, came to England and won the league and fa cup. Going back in time Benitez won titles with an underrated Valencia, a champions league with Liverpool and a Europa league and fa cup with Chelsea when he was very unfancied. Simeone has won la Liga in a ridiculously dominant environment, a Spanish cup, two Europa leagues, two super cups (2 cl finals). Mourinho has won everywhere, guardiola has won everywhere (without massive challenge), ancellotti has won league titles in 4 countries and 3 champions leagues but people still aren’t convinced by him largely. There just seems to be an element of inflating klopp to a level based on characterisation of him rather than actual success. And for all his virtue signalling about coaching, discovering and not spending if he does win anything in the next year or so it will be off the back of huge spending. So so far, I still don’t buy the hype and wonder how long you can go without winning anything and still have opposition fans worshipping you and wishing you coached their team.
So guardiola then?
Again, they are a completely different category.
If I am the chairman of a club that aspires to win the league and be strong in Europe in three seasons time then I will want to appoint Klopp. Actually in some years Klopp will be considered for more urgent tasks as well, but until now that's what he has done, and he has done it relatively well. One of the problems Klopp has, and I haven't seen anyone talk about it btw, is that he has to build a squad which suits his football, and that doesn't necessarily suit the club's interests in a given time. Because, you know, a club also has needs and there will always be players that suit their needs better than others.
If my club is among the best in Europe and wants to be strong from day one plus is full of quality players who need excellent man management, I will appoint Zidane or Ancelotti if I can, because they have shown excellent abilities in such situations. Also, Zidane and Ancelotti can adapt better to different kind of players, supposed they have the quality that is required.
I love Klopp which isn't exactly strange given my allegiances. There will always be excuses made for the lack of a trophy so far and the easiest ones are that (Apart from Sevilla in the Europa League final) we played much better teams.
Man City beat us in the league cup on penalties. We all know they're a lottery and who knows what would have happened if we'd won that.
Sevilla was down to Moreno being Moreno and conceeding an equaliser 30seconds after the restart deflated us causing Sevilla (who were after their 3rd Europa League in a row) to believe that it was theirs for the taking.
Real Madrid was down to Karius. I know the concussion excuse has been bandied around but even if your head is all over the place, you can see a striker 2 feet in front of you.
My point is that it's not necessarily better tactics that have got the better of Liverpool in finals, it's been one or two individual feck ups that can't be accounted for on the training ground.
I liken Klopp to Bill Shankly. Both took over a team who were failing in every aspect (granted Shankly inherited much bigger issues). They galvanised the players, the fans and the board and got them all on side. Success didn't come immediately but after a patient rebuilding job, Shankly had us winning the old first division. I'm not saying that Klopp will win the league, but the way he has gone about things is certainly in a similar vein.
We've gone from mid table mediocrity to title challengers with 3 summer transfer windows. Klopp will not be put under pressure to win trophies this season as realistically competing with City for the league and the usual suspects in Europe is a huge ask. I was disappointed to go out of the league cup as early as we did and I hope it's a different story in the FA Cup as I feel we have a great chance of winning that if we put our minds to it.
I'm loving the ride that we're on with Klopp and although no silverware has been won yet, we've certainly made massive strides towards getting some
Man City beat us in the league cup on penalties. We all know they're a lottery and who knows what would have happened if we'd won that.
Sevilla was down to Moreno being Moreno and conceeding an equaliser 30seconds after the restart deflated us causing Sevilla (who were after their 3rd Europa League in a row) to believe that it was theirs for the taking.
Real Madrid was down to Karius. I know the concussion excuse has been bandied around but even if your head is all over the place, you can see a striker 2 feet in front of you.
My point is that it's not necessarily better tactics that have got the better of Liverpool in finals, it's been one or two individual feck ups that can't be accounted for on the training ground.
I liken Klopp to Bill Shankly. Both took over a team who were failing in every aspect (granted Shankly inherited much bigger issues). They galvanised the players, the fans and the board and got them all on side. Success didn't come immediately but after a patient rebuilding job, Shankly had us winning the old first division. I'm not saying that Klopp will win the league, but the way he has gone about things is certainly in a similar vein.
We've gone from mid table mediocrity to title challengers with 3 summer transfer windows. Klopp will not be put under pressure to win trophies this season as realistically competing with City for the league and the usual suspects in Europe is a huge ask. I was disappointed to go out of the league cup as early as we did and I hope it's a different story in the FA Cup as I feel we have a great chance of winning that if we put our minds to it.
I'm loving the ride that we're on with Klopp and although no silverware has been won yet, we've certainly made massive strides towards getting some
You finished 2nd in 13/14..
And lost Suarez and Sterling within a year.
Success isn't a linear plane. If Klopp isn't under huge pressure now to win the league, when will he be? Finishing second or coming close to winning the league isn't a guarantee that you will push on the following season.Its all well and good building for the future but when an opportunity presents itself you give everything to take it. Saying that Klopp is under no pressure makes it seem like, it isn't really a big deal if you don't win the league this year because you will be stronger next year.
It will always be difficult to compete with the best but I think Liverpool have to take their chance now because who knows what will happen next summer. In 2007-08 Arsenal came very close to winning the league but didn't and what happened? The core of that side was very quickly dismantled and we fell. The same happened to Liverpool, not once but twice in 2008-09 and 2013-14.
Whats that got to do with anything ?
Klopp has raised a sleeping giant in Liverpool the same way he rose Dortmund back from death after nearly a decade or more not doing anything.
Whilst it would be a disappointing tenure if he didn't win anything for Liverpool fans - I think he has raised that club to the point that even after he is gone - Liverpool are a place that footballers want to play football.
That was not the case for many years where a lot of their players left them and was viewed as a career progression type of club.
Whilst it would be a disappointing tenure if he didn't win anything for Liverpool fans - I think he has raised that club to the point that even after he is gone - Liverpool are a place that footballers want to play football.
That was not the case for many years where a lot of their players left them and was viewed as a career progression type of club.
.....and gained Salah and 'Bobby'.
The side Klopp took over in October 2015 wasn’t the same as the one that finished 2nd
Don't think it's as simple as that these days.
They're a very attractive prospect to a lot of footballers now, but where they are after Klopp goes is heavily dependent on a) where they are when Klopp goes (he didn't leave Dortmund in the best of places, b) who follows him (a bad appointment can set a team back), and c) how much money they're willing to spend compared to their rivals.
I'm not sure they've fully shaken the "stepping stone", or "career progression type" as you've put it, club. It was only last season they lost Coutinho. If they've still got Mane, Firmino and Salah performing at their best in a couple of seasons time, with VVD, Matip, Gomez, A-A, Robertson, Keita, Fabinho and Alisson all developing/cementing places in their starting XI, then I'd say they have.
Liverpool's biggest problem for the best part of a decade has been keeping hold of their best players. Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Suarez and Coutinho were all, in their own way, massive losses. The big positive for them is how well they've coped with losing Coutinho compared to those they've lost in the past.
I agree with you but whilst I can't see the future - what has changed for me is that Liverpool have gone from a club that had one or two good players in their squad a season to players that can hold a starting 11. Even back when they won the CL against Milan - it was xabi alonso & Gerrard, later on just Suarez then Just coutinh0. It's not like that anymore & whilst players moved from dortmund to clubs across the road like Bayern Munich & later on clubs like us and city - I just don't see it happening in such deep measures at Liverpool in comparison.
Whilst some may move like Salah - I don't see players like Mane, Robertson, Alexander Arnold, VVD & maybe even firminh0 dying to move to another club. It won't happen in the UK at least - not the way its currently going with arguably the biggest competition in football outside UCL.
I agree that things can get worse with bad managers following klopp's departure one day - but to me Liverpool had been a team of the past due consistently only having a few good players in their team. Even if they go down a level - I see them possibly being a club like how dortmund are run now - possibly not the best place for a title winning team but remain relevant in the footballing world.
As a United fan though - I wouldn't worry about them overtaking us; it's only a matter of time before we get ourselves sorted.
twitter.com/SambaRole/status/1048998891679449089?s=19
lol at Klopp....is that Shaqiri he's screaming at again in the end?
lol at Klopp....is that Shaqiri he's screaming at again in the end?
City are a behemoth, we could get 90+ points which would be our best ever PL season and still finish 2nd. That's why it isn't a 'must win' scenario, because to think we must win the league this season is stupid.
We've been transformed into one of the top sides in Europe - why would we turn on Klopp?
We're 8 games in. And you finished 25 points adrift last season. A bit early to be declaring yourselves title challengers don't you think?
Jose managed to win the European Cup with FC Porto and Inter Milan. Neither were a 'top side' compared to the teams on your list.
Meanwhile, Klopp can't even win a League Cup or Europa League. Massively overrated
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The Inter side that won the treble wasn't a top side? FFS
They won the title once again, won the Coppa Italia whilst conceding one goal from the Round of 16 onwards and won the CL, defeating Chelsea, Barcelona and Bayern in the process. They were one of the, if not the best team in Europe at that time.
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That would be your best league season in history, not just PL. Your best achievement (in terms of 3 pts per game) is 88 pts (some season in the 80s, IIRC).
Indeed. When that time comes, we could have sold Firmino, Mane and Salah, just like we used to do, and we would right back where we started, or we could have reinforced our squad even further with a guy like Fekir. In any case, I don't see Klopp leaving any time soon and somehow it feels like things have changed for the better and like Aloysius is saying, I don't see any of our star players leaving.
And with that said, Mane will hand in a transfer request in January.
Shows your football knowledge if you think that Inter side wasn't a top side. They had some fantastic players, almost perfect for Mourinho's way of playing.
The Inter side that won the treble wasn't a top side? FFS
They won their second title in a row, won the Coppa Italia whilst conceding one goal from the Round of 16 onwards and won the CL, defeating Chelsea, Barcelona and Bayern in the process. They were one of the, if not the best team in Europe at that time.
Not to the level of Real and Bayern. These teams have large resources and fairly high levels of dominance. Jose took over a strong team domestically (2 consecutive titles won, 3 if you include the one retrospectively awarded) when Seria A had a higher standing, but a middling one in European terms.
Porto was an outstanding achievement for a small club in European Terms.
Klopp meanwhile is living off relatively minor successes and is proving to be a 'specialist in failure' when it comes to cup finals. Overrated.
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Nothing European terms, Quarter Final elimination was the best they got. Jose turned then into European winners (building on his past success with Porto).
Klopp can't even win Europe's 2nd tier competition
Yes, taking over a (financially and sports-wise) struggling team and winning the Bundesliga twice in a row, whilst getting to a CL final in the process and establishing them as a European force again was indeed a minor success.