Keir Starmer Labour Leader

In 2019 we hadn't had COVID and all the corruption and mismanagement (putting it nicely) that came from that, we hadn't started really feeling the affects of Brexit either and we still had the aforementioned Truss clusterfeck on the horizon.

I think far too much weight is put into the difference an election campaign makes to voters. The majority of people will have made their minds up how they are going to vote already and the odd performative tv debate or showing up at a car factory for a photo op isn't going to do much to change their opinion.

It's not the election campaign as such, its the performance of Starmer and Labour leading to the election and for a while now and the ability to handle any clusterfecks from their side. Brexit is still a sore topic for some hence Labour (much to my dismay) haven't mentioned anything about it. Farage in the mix has also taken the Tory vote away.
 
He's not flip-flopping on an issue here or there. It's not details about how much gets spent in a particular department. It's the entire manifesto and vision. But I want to highlight that he was Shadow Brexit Secretary and vocally and forcefully pushed through a second referendum in that manifesto past a reluctant Corbyn (which IMO turned a bad result for Labour into a landslide loss). Like many things in that manifesto, a Brexit 2nd referendum wasn't just a small detail, it was a fundamental, deep statement about the future of the UK , its relation with its largest trading partner, and the meaning of the most important event in recent British politics (the Leave vote) --- and it was personally supported and pushed by Starmer in his official role. Which he has also gone back on fully and completely.
Can you imagine Blair calling for nationwide nationalisation of the commanding heights? Or for leaving the European Union?

This is fundamentally an empty man. (Which also explains his endorsement of collective starvation of Gaza - it was a sensible policy for that moment and to distance himself from anti-semitic Corbyn).

He was completely hopeless as Shadow Brexit Secretary.

The Second Referendum affair was a joke. They promised to get a new deal within six months and put it to a vote. A majority of people in the UK even now don't understand what they voted for, including Starmer who always said he wanted the same benefits inside and out of the EU.
 
Very disappointing.


No one is going to campaign on that for at least 20 years. It’s going to take a party coming into power to start the conversation when power and begin to change the narrative. This is something I fully expect this Labour government… not to do.
 
No one is going to campaign on that for at least 20 years. It’s going to take a party coming into power to start the conversation when power and begin to change the narrative. This is something I fully expect this Labour government… not to do.

The Lib Dems are campaigning to go back into the single market.
 
How is not voting a good way to protest at all? And why do you think you're the arbiter of what is the correct way to protest vote?

By not voting, you just aren't engaging whatsoever but it isn't a protest. You're just lumped in with the people who were too lazy to go, or didn't give a shit about politics, or were too stupid to know how or when to vote. The people that the politicians can safely ignore, in other words.

You could say the same about spoiling the ballot I guess, but if you choose to do that, you're engaging at least. You're using your right, you're just choosing to not vote for any of them. The statistic is, x amount of people wanted to vote and are interested in the outcome, but hated all of them so much they wouldn't vote for them - so pay attention. Although, admittedly, you are lumped in with the people who were too daft to work out how to fill the ballot paper out correctly...

I do not think I am an arbiter of the correct way to protest vote, I am giving an opinion, just like you.

You are part of the people; most who can vote, will vote, some are ineligible to vote, some are too lazy to vote as you say, some don't care about politics, some don't understand what to do, some want to make a protest but don't know how, some just deface ballots because they think that is a protest because the party they support isn't represented on the ballot.... unfortunately no one is listening, to any of the above, except those who do vote through the required process.

The ballot is the gateway and the process

Voting is about making a choice of those arrayed before you, in your constituency to serve the community they represent in Parliament. If your party or candidate is not standing in your constituency surely the person/party to ask why not, is them?

I do understand the frustration, I have faced it myself over the years. Sometimes I have voted 'negatively' to try to stop a particular candidate, sometimes I have not voted at all, but I have never defaced a ballot paper, because that is the only chance the individual ever gets to officially.... 'make their mark' ...and to disrespect the right to vote in that way is not, to me at least, acceptable.
 
Very disappointing.



Whatever they come up with that deepens the ties with Europe and removes barriers to trade will basically be the common/single market repackaged, as it’s impossible to achieve what they’ve spelled out any other way.

Labour spads probably wanked themselves silly thinking how genius this plan is. “Win the 52% now, the 48% later”.

They’ll then just do nothing, ignoring Brexit altogether.
 
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Very disappointing.



What do you expect? The EU doesn't really want or need us back and we wont get back in without accepting the Euro. It was a massive mistake to leave but trying to beg our way back in now would be equally disastrous.
 
What do you expect? The EU doesn't really want or need us back and we wont get back in without accepting the Euro. It was a massive mistake to leave but trying to beg our way back in now would be equally disastrous.

I doubt we would need to accept the Euro. We could still join the single market and customs union (which many Brexiteers said we wouldn’t be leaving anyway!).
 
I doubt we would need to accept the Euro. We could still join the single market and customs union (which many Brexiteers said we wouldn’t be leaving anyway!).

You would, but joining the Single Market and the Customs Union is the same as being in the EU, but without any votes or say in how the EU is run. Just like the UK is set to become a member of the CPTPP without a say or a vote but also no benefits on top. They haven't told the Brexiters that yet.
 
Started reading the Labour manifesto.

First thing that hit me was

Labour will support first time buyers who struggle to save for a large desposit,

These despots trying to buy houses....

Looks like they must have hired a proofreader from the Guardian. Probably about the only left wing element that hasn't been purged yet.
 
Nothing new in the manifesto. GB energy makes no sense. There are dozens of windfarms already in the pipeline which have already been delayed.

Where are all these hundreds of thousands of people who are going to be trained to do all sorts of jobs, whether they like it or not?, how long will it take and how much will it cost.

EU relationship plan is ridiculous.
Immigration and Asylum seekers, same old nonsense.

Damp squib and depressing.
Open goal missed.
 
Nothing new in the manifesto. GB energy makes no sense. There are dozens of windfarms already in the pipeline which have already been delayed.

Where are all these hundreds of thousands of people who are going to be trained to do all sorts of jobs, whether they like it or not?, how long will it take and how much will it cost.

EU relationship plan is ridiculous.
Immigration and Asylum seekers, same old nonsense.

Damp squib and depressing.
Open goal missed.

Take it you are not voting Labour in the UK GE then? @Paul the Wolf

What about Marine Le Pen in France perhaps???;)

By the way what is Macron playing at? It's hard to judge over here, sounds as if the right has rattled it's sabre and he's ditched his government.... perhaps they have heard he was had secret meetings with Starmer, trying to put Humpty UK back together again :lol:

Elections on both sides of the channel at the same time, who'd have thought it?
 
Take it you are not voting Labour in the UK GE then? @Paul the Wolf

What about Marine Le Pen in France perhaps???;)

By the way what is Macron playing at? It's hard to judge over here, sounds as if the right has rattled it's sabre and he's ditched his government.... perhaps they have heard he was had secret meetings with Starmer, trying to put Humpty UK back together again :lol:

Elections on both sides of the channel at the same time, who'd have thought it?

I could still register to vote in the UK in the constituency where I last lived in the UK but I never voted there even when I lived in that constituency. It was pointless with a huge Conservative majority. Probably will still stay Tory even at this election. Haven't voted in the UK since the 97 GE. But no I wouldn't vote for Labour. Probably Lib-Dem if I could have voted in another constituency.

Le Pen is a hopeless waste of space like Farage. She's promoted Bardella to appeal to the younger element.
Macron is frustrated with plans being held up by the political games of the left and right in parliament. Whether it works is dubious.
Macron is still president until 2027 whatever happens but he may have to have an even smaller representation in parliament and even have a Prime Minister from another party.
 
Nothing new in the manifesto. GB energy makes no sense. There are dozens of windfarms already in the pipeline which have already been delayed.

Where are all these hundreds of thousands of people who are going to be trained to do all sorts of jobs, whether they like it or not?, how long will it take and how much will it cost.

EU relationship plan is ridiculous.
Immigration and Asylum seekers, same old nonsense.

Damp squib and depressing.
Open goal missed.

You can see what's happening here. Trying to be everything to everybody.

Some chat about immigration and asylum for on the fence Tories. Talk about the EU for the Brexiteers. A few poorly designed taxes on 'the rich' for the gems. Nothing too adventurous and nothing that's going to change people to voting for Labour as opposed to voting against the Tories.


Reality is he's a figurehead trying to appease the devolved governments and regional leaders. Wheel simpletons like Angela Rayner out to keep the far left happy but make sure they don't get enough power to do any damage. It's the Reeves and Burnhams that will get him, intelligent and single-minded, I wonder if he'll see a full term before they come gunning for him.
 
You can see what's happening here. Trying to be everything to everybody.

Some chat about immigration and asylum for on the fence Tories. Talk about the EU for the Brexiteers. A few poorly designed taxes on 'the rich' for the gems. Nothing too adventurous and nothing that's going to change people to voting for Labour as opposed to voting against the Tories.


Reality is he's a figurehead trying to appease the devolved governments and regional leaders. Wheel simpletons like Angela Rayner out to keep the far left happy but make sure they don't get enough power to do any damage. It's the Reeves and Burnhams that will get him, intelligent and single-minded, I wonder if he'll see a full term before they come gunning for him.

I forecast a while back that he would be lucky to last three years, nothing he's done since has changed my mind.
 
I could still register to vote in the UK in the constituency where I last lived in the UK but I never voted there even when I lived in that constituency. It was pointless with a huge Conservative majority. Probably will still stay Tory even at this election. Haven't voted in the UK since the 97 GE. But no I wouldn't vote for Labour. Probably Lib-Dem if I could have voted in another constituency.

Le Pen is a hopeless waste of space like Farage. She's promoted Bardella to appeal to the younger element.
Macron is frustrated with plans being held up by the political games of the left and right in parliament. Whether it works is dubious.
Macron is still president until 2027 whatever happens but he may have to have an even smaller representation in parliament and even have a Prime Minister from another party.

Looks like Labour is going to get a large majority, but not the wild estimates some are coming up with.

For Starmer to have a chance to do anything to significantly move the dial, he is going to need 2 terms at least, possibly 3 and his majority will get whittled down each time.

So, if he starts off with say +100 seat majority this time around, that will drop to say 50/60 at the next GE assuming he is keeping to the levels/targets he will have to set sooner or later and the Tories have re-discovered how they use to be the 'natural party of government' (don't hold out much hope on that score).

By the third term he will need at least 15-20 seat majority to push for the last part on the dial to be moved

Must admit at first I wasn't impressed, but now Starmer is beginning to circle the wagons and discipline the troops and will be able to see off any 'mavericks of the left' that have escaped the cull at the selection stage and are still lurking on the back-benches . The big worry for him is whether the Unions keep faith and be prepared to wait, at least he until he gets the ship out of port, before demanding an extra rum ration for the crew.

Your comparison of Farage and Le Pen is interesting. Farage is only going to add to the woes of Sunak, presumable you think Le Pen may have the same affect in France?

Will be one of the most interesting summers for years, both politically and in terms of the football.

Get stocked up with your favourite 'tipple' and a selection of snacks, put your feet up and follow everything on the telly. ;)

Best wishes have a good summer.
 
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Looks like Labour is going to get a large majority, but not the wild estimates some are coming up with.

For Starmer to have a chance to do anything to significantly move the dial, he is going to need 2 terms at least, possibly 3 and his majority will get whittled down each time.

So, if he starts off with say +100 seat majority this time around, that will drop to say 50/60 at the next GE assuming he is keeping to the levels/targets he will have to set sooner or later and the Tories have re-discovered how they use to be the 'natural party of government' (don't hold out much hope on that score).

By the third term he will need at least 15-20 seat majority to push for the last part on the dial to be moved

Must admit at first I wasn't impressed, but now Starmer is beginning to circle the wagons and discipline the troops and will be able to see off any 'mavericks of the left' that have escaped the cull at the selection stage and are still lurking on the back-benches . The big worry for him is whether the Unions keep faith and be prepared to wait, at least he until he gets the ship out of port, before demanding and extra rum ration for the crew.

Your comparison of Farage and Le Pen is interesting. Farage is only going to add to the woes of Sunak, presumable you think Le Pen may have the same affect in France?

Will be one of the most interesting summers for years, both politically and in terms of the football.

Get stocked up with your favourite 'tipple' and a selection of snacks, put your feet up and follow everything on the telly. ;)

Best wishes have a good summer.

I don't see Starmer doing a lot that will make people notice a lot of difference , other than not having a load of nutcase ministers in prominent position as the Tories have. He has to be a lot bolder earlier because if he waits too long, it could be too long and people will grow impatient. He's got a very difficult few years ahead, which is why I don't think the Tories will be too upset and to enable them to regroup.

Le Pen is more advanced politically than Farage and it wouldn't surprise me if he reverts back to sniping on the sidelines if Reform don't get many seats and he doesn't get elected. It would be funny though if he was the only Reform MP.

Apart from her racism and xenophobia which she has tried to hide more recently, Le Pen is dim and would be a disaster for France if she ever gained more power. All the parties hate each other including those on the same side of the fence. Depends on who finally agrees to work with who but although the far-right have done better , the overall feeling at the end of the day is that the majority of French people don't want a far-right government.

Let's hope for a good summer and some good football and a rebirth of United as a force again. Best wishes.
 

I don't suppose he would make that comparison, that would mean he has some form of self awareness and shame. The simple fact of the matter is that this version of labour would rather line the pockets of the rich than keep poor kids alive. Anyone who supports the direction in which the labour party is going is treating this like sport when there are people's lives at risk. Sociopaths.
 


It's pragmatism plain and simple.

Bonuses for bankers, means a bigger tax income for government, child benefit beyond two children is a bigger expenditure... one of those really hard-nosed decisions that a new Labour government will have to make, and there will be many of them.