Keir Starmer Labour Leader

More on the book (from May in The Times):





That almost sounds satirical. He started writing it to organise his thoughts, and then realised there was some good quality stuff.
 
I know they say politics is show business for ugly people but I do get the sense a lot labour mps, see the party as a stepping stone to their real end goal, which is a very bland media career.
 
Maybe he’s legally barred from having any policies by News Corp incase it spoils the potential book profits?
 
Frosty said:
More on the book (from May in The Times):





That almost sounds satirical. He started writing it to organise his thoughts, and then realised there was some good quality stuff.
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Didn't Blair do the same? I doubt there's much more to it than imitation.

They'll be announcing a bulldog mascot soon enough. It's going to be so cringy watching him try and replicate Blairs campaign, he doesn't have near enough charisma to pull it off.
 
Fecking beige incarnate. Who of the likely runners would make a good replacement? I've been doing my best to ignore politics for a little while now ..
 
neverdie said:
writing a book about how to fix the country before devising any policy. it's a farce.

should resign or be forced into no confidence vote. he's exactly what the uk does not need + exactly what labour does not need. as frosty said, labour needs a radical platform. transformational policy is the new aspirationalism in the era of the green new deal. except unlike the tory brand it offers common utility and tangible benefits to most people.
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He can't write policies but he will write a book. Waste of space.
 
He'll call it "The audacity of hope"
 
Frosty said:
Still waiting.
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Yes, still waiting to see if Starmer can stand the heat his own side is putting to his feet!

IMO Labours' got two massive flaws which may not be repairable, even if Starmer prevails.

One is they are still 'blowing in the wind' in Scotland, they just don't know what to do about the SNP, 'stick or twist...' will probably finish up doing neither. They should be battling with the Tories for the 'hearts and minds' of those who don't want independence in Scotland, but don't want Tories either.
Second is the prevailing mood in the 'red wall' areas in England, those areas that voted Tory last time were not all just 'rampant brexiteers', they were people who for years had lived (some might say endured) Labour Councils with overwhelming majorities, who had Labour MPs with massive majorities, yet nothing really changed in these areas, if anything it got worse.

I live in such an area, they don't (as is often joked) count the Labour vote, they just weight it/stick a Labour rosette on a dog and it will still get elected, etc. In this area when Labour was in Government, we were always somewhere near the back of the queue when any 'goodies' were handed out and when it came to building prosperity in the area, the Council always had something more important to do with its money than to invest in the future.... why, because they didn't need to convince anybody to vote Labour, it was 'a given'.

On the flip side, the Tory's never even bothered trying to woo the electorate, with investment, or even a few short lived 'goodies', they give it up as a hopeless cause, they knew Labour would always return the MP's, so the (sizable) investment went elsewhere.

Then along came Brexit/Boris and changed everything, now its the Tory's who want to hang on to the local seats; 'levelling up' is all in vogue now... my word, I even heard my Labour MP candidate, who has been in the job for years, recently saying they would do 'leveling up' better than the Tories.

Is it too late now? An incoming Labour government will have a national mess to clean up.... that's if they even get the chance?
 
Can anyone tell me why Burham isn't just Starmer with a northern accent ?

From 2015

Labour's Andy Burnham suggests he might back further welfare cuts

Labour leadership favourite Andy Burnham has indicated he would support further welfare cuts, including government plans for a £23,000 cap on benefits if it has adequate safeguards.

At a speech in London, the shadow health secretary said he wanted to counter the perception his party wants to give “an easy ride” to people who do not want to help themselves.


“Labour does need to win back those people who have that feeling about us,” he told business leaders at the headquarters of EY (previously Ernst & Young) on Friday. He added that the party would not be re-elected unless it showed people it was on the side of those who wanted to “get on” and succeed.


Asked after the speech about his views on welfare, he said: “I was talking about an impression on the doorstep and there is that feeling, some people say, that Labour want to be soft on people who want something for nothing. We’ve got to be honest about that. That is a feeling that’s out there, that was still being replayed at this election.”

Burnham is trying to dispel the idea that he is the candidate of the party’s left and trade unions, arguing that he is the experienced and loyal choice who can appeal to all sections of the party.

He said Labour was right to challenge indiscriminate welfare cuts, including the bedroom tax. But he suggested there should be further cuts at some level below the Tory proposal for £12bn of savings.

“There are real worries about what £12bn of benefit cuts will mean in terms of effects on carer’s allowance or tax credits,” he said. “This indiscriminate thing where all benefits are lumped together – there is a more sophisticated argument about in- and out-of-work benefits.”

Burnham said he backed the shadow cabinet position on welfare revealed by the acting Labour leader, ******* Harman, who said the party may be sympathetic to the idea of the government’s plans to lower the cap on benefits to £23,000 a year.

“There are questions about discretionary housing support. I don’t know what plans the government has in respect of that. It hits London disproportionately. So those are what we’re going to look at before we make a final decision [on the cap],” he said.

In his wide-ranging speech, Burnham urged the government to get on with the process of getting more airport runway capacity built in the south-east of England and holding the EU referendum by autumn 2016. He also outlined an ambition to bring in a university-style system for allocating and financing apprenticeships, arguing that the last Labour government let down some young people who did not wish to go down an academic path.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-burham-further-welfare-cuts-leader-business
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Frosty said:
That almost sounds satirical. He started writing it to organise his thoughts, and then realised there was some good quality stuff.
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I might be in the minority but I feel like a general raising of standard in disclosure of opinions / a chance to explain themselves GENUINELY would be an incredible thing for British politics.

The dumbing down and (I hate to say it) Americanisation of our politics is a toxic mess, and some more eloquent and HONEST discourse feels almost necessary to reset ourselves. No more pandering to nationalist and far right ideals, no more entertaining the idea of a broken up United Kingdom, a real thought towards what we want our future to be. And an insight to the minds of our politicians - their real minds, not their public minds - with a view to that would be interesting.

We've allowed lies and pretence to dominate our landscape: pandering to the absolute lowest denominator. See the current tory debate blaming migrants/giving Londoners even higher pay Vs the Dominic Cummings notion of a new technocracy. There's no thought there, just an idea of what an average person wants. Which is wrong in every way.

Boris Johnson was an intelligent guy but we never saw his real brain working - only the lying, public facade. See his discussion of Rome Vs Greece if you don't believe me. And that public clown persona is everything wrong with politics. We want to see intellect and truth, not some dumbed down and misleading version of it.

Sadly this of course will never happen.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Boris Johnson was an intelligent guy but we never saw his real brain working - only the lying, public facade. See his discussion of Rome Vs Greece if you don't believe me. And that public clown persona is everything wrong with politics. We want to see intellect and truth, not some dumbed down and misleading version of it.
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his persona was calculated to score points with nationalist types. all he was doing was to mirror what he thought the public looked like. and going by his success it's hard to argue he was wrong. did the majority of brexit types, the ones who voted against the establishment, want a classical scholar or a comedian who seemed scholarly beneath it all? half the parliament engage in classical scholarship because it's the public school legacy of holding the dead languages higher than the living. and then the political history you get in university when you do politics and economics or political economy. his success on the personal level was entirely because he seemed dishonest. same as trump. people know the system is rigged and they grow tired of watching politicians pretend it isn't. when you see politicians mirroring your own convictions, by playing underhanded, you think "he knows where it's at" or "he's one of us" or at least "he's not one of them". it's a pr conjuring trick.

i agree with you that the dumbing down of political discourse has been a problem. too many politicians are quick to mirror what they think the public wants instead of making a case for what they think the public needs. the first is always the easier and lazier option. reactionary. should also remember that being a classical scholar doesn't prevent you from being an idiot, too. look at the bbc's lineup or the tory front and backbench for proof.
 
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For anyone hoping for a day modern Attlee.



Yet it was a strange kind of socialism, which imposed a bloody partition on India, pursued colonial war in Malaya, and played a pivotal role in creating NATO. Indeed, Labour’s nationalisations of key sectors of Britain’s ailing post-war economy took place without any semblance of workers’ control. And when it came to industrial unrest, Attlee and his government proved yet again that Labour’s priority was maintaining social order and capitalism in Britain, and sided with the employers against working people.

It is notable that the Attlee government had declined to overturn Order 1305 – an official ban on strike action introduced during the Second World War – upon coming to power. This meant that any industrial action taken under Attlee’s government was ‘unofficial,’ which made it far more difficult to conduct negotiations, but much easier for the government to use extraordinary means to put down strikes. Not only this, but Attlee and Ernest Bevin had organised the reestablishment of the strike-breaking Supply and Transport Organisation, which was first employed to break the 1926 General Strike.

Within its very first week of existence, the Attlee government had already sent up to 4,000 troops to break up a strike by port workers at London’s Surrey Commercial Docks, who had been calling for a basic pay rise in one of the lowest paid industries. Not long after, in September 1945, a strike broke out at the docks in Birkenhead. The minister for Labour refused to meet the strikers and the government proceeded to send 21,000 troops to break the strike.

These were not exceptional cases. Attlee’s government routinely employed troops to break strikes across various industries in the years that followed – totalling no fewer than eleven occasions by 1950 – and had declared state of emergencies to deal with strikes in 1948 and 1949. In contrast, where employers had used lock-outs against workers–where employers would temporarily close factories to force wage cuts on workers–the government had effectively adopted a policy of non-intervention. The Attlee government had made itself abundantly clear whose side it was on.
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711 said:
Gordon Brown seems to have no trouble making the news today, talking of social justice with passion and logic as ever. Saying what Starmer should be saying of course.
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True. Starmer is so devoid of ideas he just regurgitates Tory lines.

 
Labour have already been in opposition for a long time. Only one Labour leader has won an election in the best part of 50 years, and did so by appealing to the middle ground/soft Tory support.

You'd think the was a lesson in that somewhere, but apparently not.

Trying to pretend that winning elections in a predominantly (C)conservative country by socialist policies is possible is an admirable self-delusion, but what was the price of milk the last time that happened?
 
stw2022 said:
but what was the price of milk the last time that happened?
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Supermarket inflation is expected to reach the highest level since at least 2008 in August after rising to almost 10% this month, amid the worst squeeze on household budgets on record. Families are facing a £454 increase in average annual grocery bills, adding pressure amid the cost of living crisis, with butter, milk and pet food among the biggest risers over the past year, according to figures from Kantar.Wider consumer price inflation (CPI) for June is expected on Wednesday to hit 9.3%, up from 9.1% in May, underlining the impact of Britain’s cost of living crisis on households and businesses.

https://theguardian.com/business/20...rises-grocery-inflation-prices-cost-of-living
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Also

 
stw2022 said:
Labour have already been in opposition for a long time. Only one Labour leader has won an election in the best part of 50 years, and did so by appealing to the middle ground/soft Tory support.

You'd think the was a lesson in that somewhere, but apparently not.

Trying to pretend that winning elections in a predominantly (C)conservative country by socialist policies is possible is an admirable self-delusion, but what was the price of milk the last time that happened?
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Blair flew to Australia and knelt before Murdoch. That was the key to his success.
 
Sweet Square said:
It’s a phone video filmed by most likely a scared pensioner of some lads having fun with bikes.

It’s something you would expect to see on Brass Eye.
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Yep.

I think we will disagree on this as this messaging is still effective though. Especially using the MP's own words against him.

Considering Labour needs to win Redcar too. Honestly I would have had no problem with Corbyn's Labour doing this either. The only difference being I would know the policies for both investing in the police and also crime diversion too.

Doesn't take away from the fact that Labour is not really offering policies, let alone effective policies, on the biggest issues.
 
Actually if they gave Chris Morris complete creative control and a blank cheque and told him to film a load of broadcasts I think it would still be miles ahead of what Labour are offering nationally.
 
Frosty said:
I think we will disagree on this as this messaging is still effective though. Especially using the MP's own words against him.

Considering Labour needs to win Redcar too. Honestly I would have had no problem with Corbyn's Labour doing this either.
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Tbh You’ll likely be right that it will be effective messaging, personally I’ve always hated this type of political communication. It’s a very British thing of here’s a group of people having fun, now let me tell you, how we can stop this immediately.
 
Sweet Square said:
Tbh You’ll likely be right that it will be effective messaging, personally I’ve always hated this type of political communication. It’s a very British thing of here’s a group of people having fun, now let me tell you, how we can stop this immediately.
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They lost any points for it being effective messaging to target a key demographic who see crime in quite black and white terms the second they uploaded it to Twitter.
 
Gordon Brown says energy firms unable to offer lower bills should be temporarily re-nationalised

Former PM calls for energy price cap to be scrapped and new lower prices renegotiated by government

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-bills-should-be-temporarily-re-nationalised

Writing on the day after annual bills were forecast to top £4,200 by January, Brown said the government should “pause any further increase in the cap” and then negotiate separate company agreements to keep prices down after examining profit margins and available social tariffs.

He said that the government should consider bringing into public ownership companies who could not meet that requirement, comparing it to what his government did “as a last resort” in 2009 with banks.

He said before taking that step, the government should offer guaranteed loans and equity financing but “if this fails, then, as a last resort, operate their essential services from the public sector until the crisis is over”.

Brown wrote: “Families of 2022 are about to suffer more than in 2008-09 and only bold and decisive action starting this week will rescue people from hardship and reunite our fractured country.”

The fleshed-out plan goes far further than Labour has gone on how to tackle the autumn crisis – though the party is said to be working on a new policy offer.

Brown said there were urgent decisions that could not wait until the end of the Tory leadership race. Those include:
  • Cancelling the energy cap before the official announcement on 26 August
  • Agreeing October payments for vulnerable households
  • Finding urgent new supplies of gas and storage
  • Voluntary energy cuts like Germany’s to prevent blackouts
He said spending should be paid in new “watertight windfall tax” on oil and gas and a new tax on the high levels of city bonuses which he said were pushing up wage inflation. Those measures could raise £15bn, he said, enough to give nearly 8 million low income families just under £2,000 each.

------

One of the architects of New Labour coming out with policies to the left of the current Labour leadership.
 
Frosty said:
  • Finding urgent new supplies of gas and storage
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Sure but how long do new storage facilities take to build... how long do new extraction sites in places that aren't Russia take to set up

I suspect the timelines for both and the investment needed is signifigant

For this winter and next it's buy Russian gas or accept anything else costs a lot more ... if the government thinks that's a price worth paying then probably they have to find a way to financially contribute to that.

Gut feel a new pm (probably truss I guess) will do something as a flagship policy to try to get people onside in September or an emergency budget ij October... probably won't be enough ij most people's eyes

But finding new gas supplies and having better storage are very much longer term options
 
sun_tzu said:
Sure but how long do new storage facilities take to build... how long do new extraction sites in places that aren't Russia take to set up

I suspect the timelines for both and the investment needed is signifigant

For this winter and next it's buy Russian gas or accept anything else costs a lot more ... if the government thinks that's a price worth paying then probably they have to find a way to financially contribute to that.

Gut feel a new pm (probably truss I guess) will do something as a flagship policy to try to get people onside in September or an emergency budget ij October... probably won't be enough ij most people's eyes

But finding new gas supplies and having better storage are very much longer term options
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All true enough.

But currently Keir Starmer is on holiday whilst Truss and Sunak are doing wall to wall media coverage.

The Guardian make the point that the Labour offering so far - cutting VAT - is exactly the same as what Sunak is offering:

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...its-politicians-take-a-long-break-to-recharge

We have an opposition party which is promising a policy at some point in the Autumn, when the very real risk is that by then it will be too late. Even if they adopted Gordon Brown suggestions, or Martin Lewis's, with all the difficulties in implementation, they would still be offering the voting public an alternative which we are sorely lacking right now. If you offer nothing, people will choose the party that is offering something.

As has been pointed out in this thread, Blair had policies ready to go within 2 to 3 months of becoming leader.
 
dumbo said:
Tory MPs are out here sexually assaulting women and children but let's focus on the real problem of lads popping wheelies.
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I fully take the point, but:

- this is an advert for Redcar Labour Party, targeted at Redcar, which Labour must win back from the Tories

- it was posted on Twitter a day after police were called to 50 off-road bikes driving through Redcar and Middlesbrough and reports of 'anti-social driving'

- it is clearly aimed at local voters and getting them to realise the local MP is full of hot air, and police cuts are having a direct impact on their lives in anti-social behaviour

- genuinely I am not sure a story about Westminster politicians would 'cut through' in the same way

Full story:

Police in attendance as large group on off-road bikes travel through Teesside
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/police-attendance-large-group-road-24694648

If this were the national party, I would 100% agree. But this would be produced by the local CLP, and the message may not even have needed to be signed off by the Regional party.
 
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