Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?

[Bojan11]

Well considering how many times it's been said that only Kobe fanboys can defend him in any way here, it's worth mentioning that I'm not one of them.

I also do not really see the point in you trying to present this as some sort of an issue.

Ok you should tell us the third time on the next page and keep reminding us page after page. Have it under your username too it might help.

 

[oates]

Ok you should tell us the third time on the next page and keep reminding us page after page. Have it under your username too it might help.

Not helpful.

 

[Sarni]

Ok you should tell us the third time on the next page and keep reminding us page after page. Have it under your username too it might help.

Thank you for your valuable contribution to discussion.

 

[Cascarino]

Care to explain? Unless you think Kobe wrote that statement himself?

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of what you just typed. Unless you were there when he was given that advice?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Some of the first posts in this thread (haven't read the whole thing) and people wanting to keep the rape allegations out of it make for pretty uncomfortable reading. It should absolutely be discussed and to be honest, the rape case was the first thing that popped into my mind when I heard the news of Bryant's passing. It is not exactly the same, but one does feel reminded of gun advocates trying to silence any discussion of gun regulation in the wake of another shooting.

Indeed.

https://slate.com/culture/2020/01/kobe-bryant-rape-allegation-coverage.html

It’s Not “Too Soon” to Talk About the Kobe Bryant Rape Case

In 2016, Lindsay Gibbs wrote a story for ThinkProgress titled “The Legacy of the Kobe Bryant Rape Case.” In that piece, Gibbs describes the sexual assault case against Bryant, how it didn’t proceed when the alleged victim reportedly declined to cooperate with prosecutors, and what the ramifications of it look like more than a decade later. Slate’s Hang Up and Listen podcast spoke to Gibbs, author of the Power Plays newsletter on women in sports, about how the rape case was discussed in the early 2000s and how it’s been covered in the aftermath of Bryant’s death. Below is an edited transcript of that interview.

Stefan Fatsis: Lindsay, how do you think the inclusion of this chapter of Bryant’s life has been handled?

Lindsay Gibbs: It’s tough because the media and fans didn’t do a really good job reckoning with it when he was alive. So it makes sense that it would be even more tough to discuss when he’s passed away, especially so tragically. I’m seeing two extremes. First, people who were really affected by the rape case and really remember that, and so they are using that as a way to say that all the other grief about him is invalid. Second, there are people going into deep detail about his on-court legacy and off-court legacy while referring to the rape case as “that Colorado thing.” And really, neither of those are sufficient. I think it is a big part of his legacy. He never really properly grappled with it, and the media let him get away with that. At the same time, I don’t think it should be the only thing that is discussed. And I understand why a lot of people want to discuss other things about his legacy right now.

Josh Levin: On ESPN, which I had on all day yesterday and this morning, they were really sticking to sports. I don’t want to say there was no mention on SportsCenter, but if there was, it was extremely passing, and the coverage was entirely focused on the outpouring from his NBA peers, from other people in the world. ABC News also did a special report that only mentioned the sexual case very, very glancingly and was extremely hagiographic towards Kobe. It creates an environment where if you do try to reckon with it, it’s seen as not in keeping with the tone of the moment. It feels like you’re being impolitic if you bring it up.

Gibbs: Right, you’re being a social justice warrior. “Too soon” is the thing everyone says. It’s hard, though, because I would get attacked the same way when I brought it up when he was alive. So there was never a “right time” to talk about it. Because I wrote this piece back in 2016, people have been reaching out to me over the past 24 hours. It’s the very angry and the very ugly, but it’s also a lot of survivors who are having very complicated feelings, and are really upset that they’re not hearing it talked about and want to know if there’s something wrong with them because it’s all they can think about.


Part of the legacy of that rape case was the extreme victim-shaming that Kobe’s lawyer did, and that the media ran with. The law didn’t protect her, the legal system didn’t protect her, and the media certainly didn’t protect her. And so a lot of people do remember that, and remember him never, never reckoning with that. Him still enforcing the nondisclosure agreement—a couple of years ago he did an interview with the Washington Post, a big feature, and they reached out to her and she couldn’t talk because of the NDA.

And that’s important. That impacted a lot of people too, as did, of course, his work in women’s basketball, and his relationship with his daughter. It all exists. And it’s uncomfortable that it all exists, but it does. And ignoring it doesn’t help. I think ignoring it just makes survivors from all communities feel more shame, feel more confused, and feel like they’re not a part of our culture, our society.


Joel Anderson: Yeah. A big part of the glue that holds rape culture together is the idea that what happens to women matters less than the prerogative of men, right?

It’s like we’re always discussing intentions, or whether it’s “a youthful indiscretion.” And so survivors learned that what happened to them doesn’t matter. And people get that from the police, colleges, institutions, and now sports. And so here with Kobe, people are sort of dancing around the idea that, yo, this dude was credibly accused of rape. And they’re like, “No, this is not a good time to talk about it.” But back then it was like, “Oh, this is a guy with a future and he’s expressed remorse and he says he didn’t do it.”

The way that I think of it is that if your support and your admiration for Kobe is strong enough, like if you really loved Kobe, you idolized him, that should be real enough to sustain an analysis or review of his life as he lived it. Nobody is telling you how to mourn or that you can’t feel sorry for the fact that he died or that it was a tragedy, because it is. But that should not therefore dictate the way others choose to remember him or what we want to say about his death. And if you have a problem with it, you should get the hell off of social media. You should turn off the TV and mourn on your own time. But I don’t think that anybody should get mad at people for wanting to talk about, “Hey, did he make proper amends? How did this affect the victim?” I mean, the victim today is watching all of this.


Gibbs: She’s watching all of it. Yeah.

Anderson: She’s watching all of this and people are saying, “We don’t want to talk about that now” as if what happened to her, or what she says happened to her, didn’t matter.

Gibbs: And victims everywhere are watching. Survivors in your life right now are listening to this and reading this and hearing all the dismissals. And it’s tough because I hear a lot of people from the black community say, “Don’t tell us how to feel.” You hear people in the women’s basketball community who he meant so much to say, “Don’t tell us how to feel.”

But the fact is there are survivors in all of these communities. Survivors aren’t in a community all to themselves. They’re part of all these other communities.

Fatsis: On the specific matter of the case itself, it’s instructive to go back and read what happened, because the charges were horrifying. The police interviews with the victim and with Bryant were incredibly disturbing. The victim declined to testify and prosecutors wound up dropping the case, and then there was a civil lawsuit and a settlement with Bryant.

And Bryant issued an apology, which, read through the lens of today, is astounding. Bryant acknowledged that he may have sexually assaulted her. He acknowledges that she said it was not consensual.

Levin: He said, in part, “Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did.” I also want to note the part from the police interviews that is the most chilling. The alleged victim said that Kobe said to her, “You’re not gonna tell anybody, right?” during that alleged assault. She says, “I said ‘No’ and he didn’t hear me or asked me to say it louder. Wanted me to turn around and look at him while I said it.” She said that Bryant asked her the question three or four times.


Gibbs: I went back and revisited this in 2016, when he retired. I didn’t remember that much about it. I had been in high school during the time, I remembered the apology ring that he gave Vanessa. I remembered that press conference. I remembered a little bit about it, but I didn’t remember the details. Really going back and digging into how disturbing the allegations really were, how she was treated by the media, and that apology. I mean, there’s a lot to it.

Anderson: The other thing is … that I believe Kobe when he says that he doesn’t believe that he raped her. But that is a failure. First of all, that doesn’t clear you in terms of your legal or moral obligations to other people. It is a failure of consent, a failure to learn what consent is.

Gibbs: Yeah, I totally agree. Especially for these athletes that their whole life, they’ve been lifted up, praised by everyone. They haven’t heard “no” that often from anybody about anything because of their status and their talent. I completely agree with you, and I think I kept hoping as Kobe grew up and especially as he became such a fixture in the women’s sports community and he had these daughters, I kept hoping that maybe he would reckon with it in some way, somehow. And obviously we will never know if he would have, but it always felt like a missed opportunity for someone who did seem so insightful and to care so much about women that that conversation couldn’t be had. And now it won’t be.

 

[RobinLFC]

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of what you just typed. Unless you were there when he was given that advice?

Do I need to put a disclaimer after every post that what I post are my own views? There's a difference between stating your own opinion and being plain wrong, i.e. saying it was an admission of guilt when it was clearly stated it definitely wasn't one.

 

[Rado_N]

Do I need to put a disclaimer after every post that what I post are my own views? There's a difference between stating your own opinion and being plain wrong, i.e. saying it was an admission of guilt when it was clearly stated it definitely wasn't one.

His comment about understanding that she may not have been consenting is pretty damning to be honest. Adding “but I’m not admitting anything” doesn’t really make it better.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Some of the first posts in this thread (haven't read the whole thing) and people wanting to keep the rape allegations out of it make for pretty uncomfortable reading. It should absolutely be discussed and to be honest, the rape case was the first thing that popped into my mind when I heard the news of Bryant's passing. It is not exactly the same, but one does feel reminded of gun advocates trying to silence any discussion of gun regulation in the wake of another shooting.

What do you reckon we are doing in this thread?

It’s a complicated and emotive matter. Those wishing to discuss are doing it now, while the original thread is left for people to express their grief/condolences. Kobe also wasn’t the only one who died. Other people including 2 innocent teenage girls did too. Can’t you see how much of a shitshow the other thread would have turned out if people just pop in to say their bit and found pages upon pages discussing the rape case?

 

[Abizzz]

For the record there's a massive difference between "mentioning the allegations" in the wake of his death and what a lot of people in this thread have been doing.

This is a thread full of personal verdicts and slander.

 

[Cascarino]

Do I need to put a disclaimer after every post that what I post are my own views? There's a difference between stating your own opinion and being plain wrong, i.e. saying it was an admission of guilt when it was clearly stated it definitely wasn't one.

"I apologise for my behaviour that night"
"I understand why she thinks I raped her"

Yeah, I interpret that as an admission of guilt.

For the record there's a massive difference between "mentioning the allegations" in the wake of his death and what a lot of people in this thread have been doing.

This is a thread full of verdicts and slander.

You waded in without knowing any of the facts. You just got upset people called out someone you liked.

 

[Rado_N]

For the record there's a massive difference between "mentioning the allegations" in the wake of his death and what a lot of people in this thread have been doing.

This is a thread full of personal verdicts and slander.

Yea, like calling everyone who questions his role in the incident racist for a start.

You’re clearly very much on the side of Kobe in this whole thing, which is fine in and of itself but you’re extremely emotive in your posts.

I don’t have any dog in this fight but there are definitely open questions and some uncomfortable facts about the case which don’t reflect well on him.

 

[villain]

I'm personally at a true loss for words, and a conflict in emotions.

Kobe was my favourite sports star, of all time - he epitomised exactly what an athlete should be, in my mind - especially at such a young age, he was woven into my childhood.
At the same time, he is a true representation of rape culture - a man with power who was able to silence the victim of said abuse (whether directly, intentionally, or unknowingly - none of us will ever know) and get away with his actions, with no punishment.

In his death, it reinforces how we don't have a way to discuss someone like him - both the good and the bad, he's either a hero or a villain, and depending on which side of the line you believe him to fall on, you will discuss either the good or the bad.
Humans are much more complex than that, we are not supposed to be static.

It's not for us (as fans of Kobe) to try and silence the victim, or those who support the victim - it isn't for us to decide how much hurt they feel even in his death, it isn't for us to decide when people can discuss his rape. And it certainly isn't for us to water it down, it was rape.
Your heroes can be seen in a different light by others, especially when they've done horrible things, and there wouldn't be a need to say 'now's not the time to talk about that' if whatever the 'that' is about, didn't actually occur. It's not unfair, and it is valid to hear survivors stories at all times - we can't decide when harm should be forgiven.

I truly believe that he went on to be a better man than the one who committed the act in the first place. In the same way I believe criminals can be redeemed & rehabilitated.
Kobe did a lot of great work for collegiate basketball, women's basketball, youth basketball - and of course the NBA. His family appeared to love him, especially Gigi - she looked at him like nobody else mattered in the world - he mattered a lot to his friends, his community, his family & his friends.

But it's not up to me or the fans to grant him redemption, or forgiveness. Nobody, but the victim, can decide that.
& if he's never forgiven, then that's just it - and that's okay too.

That's the thing, if you hurt someone you can't go and erase it, or pretend it didn't happen, or try to justify it - but being mad that people are discussing his actions, or being mad that people haven't forgiven him because you personally love him so much, is you being mad that the victims existence makes you uncomfortable, and deflects from your personal admiration for the man.

It's not an impossible situation to put yourself in, and it's something i've grappled with since his passing. It doesn't take away from my grief, it doesn't take away from his accomplishments or his importance in history. He isn't just 'a rapist', in the same way he isn't just 'a basketball player' - that's obtuse.

I don't believe there is a balanced way to discuss exactly who he is, because of who he is.

 

[Raoul]

"I apologise for my behaviour that night"
"I understand why she thinks I raped her"

Yeah, I interpret that as an admission of guilt.

The actual statement was "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did", which is a fair and amicable statement to make when there's a standoff and neither side are prepared to concede they were wrong.

 

[adexkola]

Safe to say that, based on what I've seen on most sport/news sites, the topic on hand here barely factors into his legacy. And rightly so.

 

[Cascarino]

The actual statement was "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did", which is a fair and amicable statement to make when there's a standoff and neither side are prepared to concede they were wrong.

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter"

He literally says he understands why she felt she was raped.

Safe to say that, based on what I've seen on most sport/news sites, the topic on hand here barely factors into his legacy. And rightly so.

Why would it? Powerful and famous men have been raping women since the dawn of time without it affecting their legacy.

 

[Raoul]

Safe to say that, based on what I've seen on most sport/news sites, the topic on hand here barely factors into his legacy. And rightly so.

Agreed. There's little to no interest in the case in the US, as evidenced by the Wapo reporter getting suspended for even bringing it up.

 

[Cascarino]

Agreed. There's little to no interest in the case in the US, as evidenced by the Wapo reporter getting suspended for even bringing it up.

Which people should find very troubling.

 

[Raoul]

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter"

He literally says he understands why she felt she was raped.

I don't see the word rape in the statement, do you ?

It sounds like a very neutral and amicable way of saying neither party are right or wrong, but we could easily see why each side feels they way they do.

 

[Rado_N]

I don't see the word rape in the statement, do you ?

It sounds like a very neutral and amicable way of saying neither party are right or wrong, but we could easily see why each side feels they way they do.

Are you for real?!

 

[Raoul]

Which people should find very troubling.

I agree.

 

[Cascarino]

I don't see the word rape in the statement, do you ?

It sounds like a very neutral and amicable way of saying neither party are right or wrong, but we could easily see why each side feels they way they do.

Are you taking the piss?
Her not consenting, is rape.
Am I missing something?

 

[RobinLFC]

His comment about understanding that she may not have been consenting is pretty damning to be honest. Adding “but I’m not admitting anything” doesn’t really make it better.

It's as close to an admission as you can get, obviously - I'm saying that no one can know for sure that Kobe even believes the words he's saying or whether it's the truth.

"I apologise for my behaviour that night"
"I understand why she thinks I raped her"

Yeah, I interpret that as an admission of guilt.



You waded in without knowing any of the facts. You just got upset people called out someone you liked.

This is great. First, you "quote" something he didn't say. Then, when confronted with the actual real statement, you still maintain he LITERALLY says he understands why she felt she was raped, despite the fact that the word "rape" never gets mentioned in the statement at all.

 

[Cascarino]

It's as close to an admission as you can get, obviously - I'm saying that no one can know for sure that Kobe even believes the words he's saying or whether it's the truth.


This is great. First, you "quote" something he didn't say. Then, when confronted with the actual real statement, you still maintain he LITERALLY says he understands why she felt she was raped, despite the fact that the word "rape" never gets mentioned in the statement at all.

wtf am I reading. Her not consenting means rape. I can't believe I have to explain that to anybody.

 

[esmufc07]

I'm personally at a true loss for words, and a conflict in emotions.

Kobe was my favourite sports star, of all time - he epitomised exactly what an athlete should be, in my mind - especially at such a young age, he was woven into my childhood.
At the same time, he is a true representation of rape culture - a man with power who was able to silence the victim of said abuse (whether directly, intentionally, or unknowingly - none of us will ever know) and get away with his actions, with no punishment.

In his death, it reinforces how we don't have a way to discuss someone like him - both the good and the bad, he's either a hero or a villain, and depending on which side of the line you believe him to fall on, you will discuss either the good or the bad.
Humans are much more complex than that, we are not supposed to be static.

It's not for us (as fans of Kobe) to try and silence the victim, or those who support the victim - it isn't for us to decide how much hurt they feel even in his death, it isn't for us to decide when people can discuss his rape. And it certainly isn't for us to water it down, it was rape.
Your heroes can be seen in a different light by others, especially when they've done horrible things, and there wouldn't be a need to say 'now's not the time to talk about that' if whatever the 'that' is about, didn't actually occur. It's not unfair, and it is valid to hear survivors stories at all times - we can't decide when harm should be forgiven.

I truly believe that he went on to be a better man than the one who committed the act in the first place. In the same way I believe criminals can be redeemed & rehabilitated.
Kobe did a lot of great work for collegiate basketball, women's basketball, youth basketball - and of course the NBA. His family appeared to love him, especially Gigi - she looked at him like nobody else mattered in the world - he mattered a lot to his friends, his community, his family & his friends.

But it's not up to me or the fans to grant him redemption, or forgiveness. Nobody, but the victim, can decide that.
& if he's never forgiven, then that's just it - and that's okay too.

That's the thing, if you hurt someone you can't go and erase it, or pretend it didn't happen, or try to justify it - but being mad that people are discussing his actions, or being mad that people haven't forgiven him because you personally love him so much, is you being mad that the victims existence makes you uncomfortable, and deflects from your personal admiration for the man.

It's not an impossible situation to put yourself in, and it's something i've grappled with since his passing. It doesn't take away from my grief, it doesn't take away from his accomplishments or his importance in history. He isn't just 'a rapist', in the same way he isn't just 'a basketball player' - that's obtuse.

I don't believe there is a balanced way to discuss exactly who he is, because of who he is.

A fine post.

 

[Siorac]

The actual statement was "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did", which is a fair and amicable statement to make when there's a standoff and neither side are prepared to concede they were wrong.

"I believe it was consensual but she didn't" means it was rape. That's how it works, that's the definition of rape: one party did not consent to sex.

 

[Raoul]

Are you taking the piss?
Her not consenting, is rape.
Am I missing something?

Its lawyer speak to calmly disengage in a way where neither party admit to any culpability, in order to prep the stage for civil case negotiations.

 

[stepic]

The criminal trial was before the civil negotiations, so the fact that he got out of the criminal trial is down to the accuser not being willing to testify, not because he had a lot of money. She could've testified in the criminal trial, but for whatever reason decided not to - which was the pivotal event in the entire process.

the fact she was not willing to testify could have been a result of Kobe's top expensive lawyers offering the possibility of a civil route with the promise of money; it could also have been a result of his top expensive lawyers' attack on her moral character and repuation, which resulted in death threats after her name got leaked to the media. either which way, Kobe's wealth helped. that's the point.

 

[Abizzz]

Yea, like calling everyone who questions his role in the incident racist for a start.

I said prejudiced at the time and backpedaled when you said I was calling them "racist". But I retract that. Prejudice is playing a massive part here. And race only plays a part in the prejudice(the past couple of pages have shown that wealth does at least as much).

You’re clearly very much on the side of Kobe in this whole thing, which is fine in and of itself but you’re extremely emotive in your posts.

I don’t have any dog in this fight but there are definitely open questions and some uncomfortable facts about the case which don’t reflect well on him.

I don't disagree with that. But there's still a huge gap between that and calling him "violent rapist", "like O.J" etc. He has 1 accusation from 1 person in a 41 year life and that 1 accusation was dismissed when it went to court. Yet people in here talking about him like he's Saville.

But it's his fans that are overreacting.

 

[Cascarino]

Its lawyer speak to calmly disengage in a way where neither party admit to any culpability, in order to prep the stage for civil case negotiations.

It might be lawyer speak, but he is saying that he understands why she felt she was raped. Just because he said didn't consent instead of rape, doesn't change that.

 

[Rado_N]

I'm personally at a true loss for words, and a conflict in emotions.

Kobe was my favourite sports star, of all time - he epitomised exactly what an athlete should be, in my mind - especially at such a young age, he was woven into my childhood.
At the same time, he is a true representation of rape culture - a man with power who was able to silence the victim of said abuse (whether directly, intentionally, or unknowingly - none of us will ever know) and get away with his actions, with no punishment.

In his death, it reinforces how we don't have a way to discuss someone like him - both the good and the bad, he's either a hero or a villain, and depending on which side of the line you believe him to fall on, you will discuss either the good or the bad.
Humans are much more complex than that, we are not supposed to be static.

It's not for us (as fans of Kobe) to try and silence the victim, or those who support the victim - it isn't for us to decide how much hurt they feel even in his death, it isn't for us to decide when people can discuss his rape. And it certainly isn't for us to water it down, it was rape.
Your heroes can be seen in a different light by others, especially when they've done horrible things, and there wouldn't be a need to say 'now's not the time to talk about that' if whatever the 'that' is about, didn't actually occur. It's not unfair, and it is valid to hear survivors stories at all times - we can't decide when harm should be forgiven.

I truly believe that he went on to be a better man than the one who committed the act in the first place. In the same way I believe criminals can be redeemed & rehabilitated.
Kobe did a lot of great work for collegiate basketball, women's basketball, youth basketball - and of course the NBA. His family appeared to love him, especially Gigi - she looked at him like nobody else mattered in the world - he mattered a lot to his friends, his community, his family & his friends.

But it's not up to me or the fans to grant him redemption, or forgiveness. Nobody, but the victim, can decide that.
& if he's never forgiven, then that's just it - and that's okay too.

That's the thing, if you hurt someone you can't go and erase it, or pretend it didn't happen, or try to justify it - but being mad that people are discussing his actions, or being mad that people haven't forgiven him because you personally love him so much, is you being mad that the victims existence makes you uncomfortable, and deflects from your personal admiration for the man.

It's not an impossible situation to put yourself in, and it's something i've grappled with since his passing. It doesn't take away from my grief, it doesn't take away from his accomplishments or his importance in history. He isn't just 'a rapist', in the same way he isn't just 'a basketball player' - that's obtuse.

I don't believe there is a balanced way to discuss exactly who he is, because of who he is.

This is a fantastic post tbf.

I said prejudiced at the time and backpedaled when you said I was calling them "racist". But I retract that. Prejudice is playing a massive part here. And race only plays a part in the prejudice(the past couple of pages have shown that wealth does at least as much).

You retract it but prejudice plays a massive part? So you don’t retract it?

The only prejudice I’m seeing is against sexual assault perpetrators

I don't disagree with that. But there's still a huge gap between that and calling him "violent rapist", "like O.J" etc. He has 1 accusation from 1 person in a 41 year life and that 1 accusation was dismissed when it went to court. Yet people in here talking about him like he's Saville.

But it's his fans that are overreacting.

The OJ comparisons have been in relation to the handling of the cases and the profiles of the accused from what I’ve seen, not the nature of the offences.

You’re very definitely overreacting.

 

[Siorac]

wtf am I reading. Her not consenting means rape. I can't believe I have to explain that to anybody.

It's a statement that certainly would not be made today because the public discourse about consent evolved way beyond what it was in 2003. No PR agency or lawyer would allow a client accused of rape to say the same thing, as it basically amounts to admitting non-consensual sex. That he did not intend to rape her would not be seen as a sufficient defence today (well, hopefully).

 

[Raoul]

the fact she was not willing to testify could have been a result of Kobe's top expensive lawyers offering the possibility of a civil route with the promise of money; it could also have been a result of his top expensive lawyers' attack on her moral character and repuation, which resulted in death threats after her name got leaked to the media. either which way, Kobe's wealth helped. that's the point.

Absolutely. The prospects of making a few million bucks would've been preferable to having her name dragged through the mud in a criminal trial, which Kobe's lawyers would have used to dredge up her past activities as a way to frame her state of mind going into the encounter. Therefore settling financially was the preferred way out for all parties involved.

 

[Abizzz]

This is a fantastic post tbf.



You retract it but prejudice plays a massive part? So you don’t retract it?

Retract the backpedaling. I've been in this thread for too long.

 

[Rado_N]

Retract the backpedaling. I've been in this thread for too long.

Ok so you’re back to your original position whereby people are only discussing the allegations because of prejudice based on the colour of his skin.

Yea I think you’d be best leaving it, you’re not doing yourself any favours.

 

[Abizzz]

Ok so you’re back to your original position whereby people are only discussing the allegations because of prejudice based on the colour of his skin.

His name was cleared in a courtroom. But some people are just too prejudiced to ever accept it. Even after his death.

Do extend my quotes however you see fit.

 

[UweBein]

Which people should find very troubling.

It is indeed, and that makes this thread even more necessary.


@villain great post!

 

[Rado_N]

Do extend my quotes however you see fit.

I don’t need extend anything, I asked you to clarify what you meant so I can use your own words:

Prejudiced? Are you suggesting this is only being discussed because of the colour of his skin?

Yeah. No one would have given her the time of day had this been Tom Brady. It wouldn't even had made the media (never mind 2 decades later). The case would have been dismissed just the same but the public reaction would have been very different.

Just look at the people he's compared to in this thread. Real coincidence they're all African American too, huh?

 

[Cascarino]

Do extend my quotes however you see fit.

His name wasn't cleared in the courtroom. This has been pointed out to you at least a dozen times now. It's also not very good logic, you chafed at people mentioning OJ, incidentally the man who's name was cleared in the courtroom.

Incidents like these very often are influenced by the prism of racism, but I don't see how anyone can look at this case and think that the only factor that people are using to assume his guilt is the colour of his skin. It's wilfully deluded.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I wont pretend but he means nothing to me and never has done as I'm not even slightly interested in basketball but After reading the case reports the guy is blatently a scumbag That used fame and fortune to escape punishment from a serious crime.

I do have sympathy for the others on board that lost their lives though. Him...I honestly dont care.

 

[Abizzz]

I don’t need extend anything, I asked you to clarify what you meant so I can use your own words:

Alright, yes that was over the top. But do honestly think it didn't play any role in the coverage of it at the time? That this took place in a vacuum?