Kyle Walker: Spurs lacked the edge to win trophies

[JPRouve]

Modric, not sure if I would include Alli yet personally.

I was trying to give Glaston's argument some credit, otherwise you end up with a very short list and two players who went to the club that overshadows everyone else, in 9 years while not winning a single trophy and not elevating the club's image among players or fans.

And that's not a dig at Tottenham because I believe that your time to shine is now and in the near future.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Unless of course Spurs get taken over by a sugar daddy owner whom will rip up and replace said transfer policy

You can call it a philosophy until you're blue in the face, but in reality Spurs' transfer policy is enforced upon them due to a distinct lack of funds, much like 95% of football clubs around thew world.

It's not just about transfer policy. It's about team-versus-individual, it's about wage structure and the bonus-payment system, it's about the youth and academy set-up, it's about team spirit and how to build it, it's about training facilities and more. And it's about aiming to build the best stadium in the Prem - not the biggest, but the best (whether or not people think it will be the best is a different question).

And fundamentally it's about building for the long-term and abandoning the quest for quick-fixes. It's a project that Pochettino has signed up for.

Essentially, Spurs have taken the decision to aim to join the global elite of clubs. Obviously we have a long way to go, but the ambition is there and the building blocks are slowly being put place.

 

[BusbyMalone]

And Modric? He would have gone to Chelsea if we'd accepted their offer. And United were very interested too.

I've heard various people try and "explain away" what's happened - but 9 years is a long time to explain away. I have not only the evidence of those 9 years, but also relayed info. from knowledgeable people with connections to the club that - post-Berbatov - Levy said "never again".

Well i'm not trying to explain away anything really as i don't give a shite that much tbh. Was just genuinely curious. I think it's a little bit of both. Spurs obviously reluctant to sell to their rivals and the players, whether they initially wanted to move to a rival or not, quickly changing their mind when a club like Madrid make their interest known.

 

[Shady]

Well the difference between them and City the last 3 seasons is 1 League Cup.

 

[NK86]

I am being ridiculous?

Are you suggesting that Man City isn't a step-up from Spurs? If yes, then you are deluded. Man City has won the league recently, have Spurs? There is a considerably higher probability of winning something at City than an Spurs. How is that so difficult to understand?

You think he would move for lesser wages? Answer that qtn. Trophies is a nice excuse because City have been behind Spurs the last two seasons.

 

[vadimivich]

And fundamentally it's about building for the long-term and abandoning the quest for quick-fixes. It's a project that Pochettino has signed up for

I'll agree with Glaston here. Spurs for years and years were run quick fix to quick fix. Buy Klinsmann! Fail to properly upgrade the stadium! Ad naseum. When ENIC / Levy took over the club, it had just faced down bankruptcy and was effectively about as stable as the Trump administration. Just a mess from front to back.

The goal has been to build up the club to the point where it's playing on as close to a level playing field with the true global elite as possible. That's a long process, and it means resisting the pressure for short term fixes - not throwing money at the Berbatov/Keane teams, or the Bale/Modric ones or even this current Kane/Alli team. In the end money (which again, Spurs do have) spent with short term thought doesn't get Spurs closer to the long term goal in the minds of ENIC / Levy.

And in a nutshell you have the 15 year argument that's raged on every Spurs forum on the internet and in the stands. Some people (Glaston) are all in on the long term infrastructure plan, some people want to just blow a big wad of that cash and try to win a few trophies Blackburn style.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Get the william hill odds and i'll see how much I could make.

Oddschecker quotes 10/11 for Paddy Power and Bet fair.
My offer of 1/1 therefore beats that.
You on or what?

 

[Varun]

You think he would move for lesser wages? Answer that qtn. Trophies is a nice excuse because City have been behind Spurs the last two seasons.

Yet they are more likely to win a trophy next season than Spurs.

 

[Schmiznurf]

Oddschecker quotes 10/11 for Paddy Power and Bet fair.
My offer of 1/1 therefore beats that.
You on or what?

If i'm not going to be making at least 7 or 8 times my bet then there's no point. If I think it's a longshot i'd expect odds of at least 7/1, evens just shows that it's pretty much expected for them to win nothing. Unless i'm misunderstanding how odds work.

 

[Moonred]

You think he would move for lesser wages? Answer that qtn. Trophies is a nice excuse because City have been behind Spurs the last two seasons.

Players don't move for lesser wages anywhere unless your career is done. It's an irrelevant point. As good as Spurs are, City are clearly the easier choice if you hope to win something than Spurs. This can change if Spurs end up actually winning something but not now.

 

[hellohello]

I was trying to give Glaston's argument some credit, otherwise you end up with a very short list and two players who went to the club that overshadows everyone else, in 9 years while not winning a single trophy and not elevating the club's image among players or fans.

And that's not a dig at Tottenham because I believe that your time to shine is now and in the near future.

Ah in which case I completely agree with Glaston on this one. Spurs have yet to sell an invaluable player to a direct rival. I personally don't think Poch or Levy can be blamed for selling a 27 year old right back who isn't among our most important players for a world record fee for a defender. I 100% believe this would not have happened with a big number of current players including Eric Dier. But well, time will tell.

I agree with you that the present is important for us, but I also think Poch and Levy valued the money, and I don't think people should read too much into this sale. But of it's a forum, and it's off season so it can't be helped.

 

[africanspur]

Good luck to Walker, I genuinely don't begrudge him anything. He's been with us for 8 years, provided good service (if at times quite inconsistent) and has always worked hard.

He's gone back closer to home, earning more money and probably overall on balance, yeah, a club that is more likely to win big trophies in the very near future (it doesn't mean that they will).

I hope he does well, as long as its not against us or depriving us of a trophy.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

If i'm not going to be making at least 7 or 8 times my bet then there's no point. If I think it's a longshot i'd expect odds of at least 7/1, evens just shows that it's pretty much expected for them to win nothing. Unless i'm misunderstanding how odds work.

So you want unrealistic odds or no bet?

Predictable really.

 

[Schmiznurf]

So you want unrealistic odds or no bet?

Predictable really.

The fact that the odds are so low mark it as a sure thing meaning less money to be won, what is the point in making a bet when you won't even win much money from it.

 

[JPRouve]

Ah in which case I completely agree with Glaston on this one. Spurs have yet to sell an invaluable player to a direct rival. I personally don't think Poch or Levy can be blamed for selling a 27 year old right back who isn't among our most important players for a world record fee for a defender. I 100% believe this would not have happened with a big number of current players including Eric Dier. But well, time will tell.

I agree with you that the present is important for us, but I also think Poch and Levy valued the money, and I don't think people should read too much into this sale. But of it's a forum, and it's off season so it can't be helped.

I don't read anything into this sale, if you believe that Trippier is as good as Walker than that's a good move for Tottenham.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

The fact that the odds are so low mark it as a sure thing meaning less money to be won, what is the point in making a bet when you won't even win much money from it.

People bet fortunes at much lower odds than that if they're as sure as practically possible that they will win.
An even money bet estimates the probability of you being right at 50% but you claimed that you were confident that City would win nowt but when offered the opportunity to back your judgement with cash at a better than commercial price you declined.

OK, I'm out.

 

[Schmiznurf]

People bet fortunes at much lower odds than that if they're as sure as practically possible that they will win.
An even money bet estimates the probability of you being right at 50% but you claimed that you were confident that City would win nowt but when offered the opportunity to back your judgement with cash at a better than commercial price you declined.

OK, I'm out.

Because you're the one who thinks City will win something so the odds, in your eyes, should be long odds. You offering me even odds just shows you have as much belief in my opinion as I do.

 

[Mindhunter]

You think he would move for lesser wages? Answer that qtn. Trophies is a nice excuse because City have been behind Spurs the last two seasons.

Nobody in his prime moves for lesser wages. But there has to be a higher purpose. This is definitely not a pure money move if that's what you are suggesting.

I am sure he doesn't consider being managed by Guardiola as a money move.

 

[hellohello]

I don't read anything into this sale, if you believe that Trippier is as good as Walker than that's a good move for Tottenham.

Walker is better physically, and defensively. Trippier is better in the final third. Ultimately Walker is the better player, especially in close games. In my opinion it's ultimately not about Walker vs Trippier, but about whether or not Poch/Levy believes we can improve the overall team now by selling Walker, a player who is not essential.

 

[NK86]

Nobody in his prime moves for lesser wages. But there has to be a higher purpose. This is definitely not a pure money move if that's what you are suggesting.

I am sure he doesn't consider being managed by Guardiola as a money move.

City attracted top players even when they were new on the block. You think the players moved for trophies. Yaya Toure moved from Barca to City because of trophies allure?

 

[NK86]

Players don't move for lesser wages anywhere unless your career is done. It's an irrelevant point. As good as Spurs are, City are clearly the easier choice if you hope to win something than Spurs. This can change if Spurs end up actually winning something but not now.

City had players even when they were new on the block. You think Aguero and the likes moved for chance or trophies at that time?

 

[Mindhunter]

City attracted top players even when they were new on the block. You think the players moved for trophies. Yaya Toure moved from Barca to City because of trophies allure?

That's a long time back. Answer this - Do you think Man City, for the next few seasons, given their squad, spending power and the manager have a higher chance of winning trophies?

 

[Winrar]

While it's reasonable enough to move to a club where you'd be more likely to win trophies, would it really be that much more likely to win a trophy at city than it would be at spurs? I think latter has made huge strides with Pochettino at the helm, not to mention Spurs finished above City in the last 2 seasons as well. Walker's comments would make more sense if it was an underhanded diss at Spurs being bottlers, which I honestly don't know if it is.

I don't think 50m for Walker was a bad deal on Spurs' part either.

 

[ti vu]

While it's reasonable enough to move to a club where you'd be more likely to win trophies, would it really be that much more likely to win a trophy at city than it would be at spurs? I think latter has made huge strides with Pochettino at the helm, not to mention Spurs finished above City in the last 2 seasons as well. Walker's comments would make more sense if it was an underhanded diss at Spurs being bottlers, which I honestly don't know if it is.

I don't think 50m for Walker was a bad deal on Spurs' part either.

City has won much more in last decade since they got the money pumped into them. Another thing is Poch hasn't won anything small or big while Pep carried with him a impressive CV. His first trophyless season, but with that pedigree & aggressive transfer dealings, it looks like Pep & City wants to game. The Pep's new to the league maybe over & misused sometimes, but in this case when comparing to Poch, it does hold a lot of weight given Poch has much more time in the league & much further in development with Tottenham; the difference between them is bare minimum.

 

[NK86]

That's a long time back. Answer this - Do you think Man City, for the next few seasons, given their squad, spending power and the manager have a higher chance of winning trophies?

Point is higher wages attract. The chance for winning trophies is a secondary thought. You talk about it being "long time back" as if it was a different era. It was less than a decade back. Times have not changed. Players still move for the same motive.