Labour MP Jo Cox shot | RIP Jo Cox

Rednotdead said:
Cheers. If they're treating it as terrorism I'd have thought they'd actually want longer to investigate links to organisations/other like minded individuals, his previous history etc. To me it looks more like they simply want it over and done with quickly and this was the best way of achieving that.
Click to expand...

You do realise that this is a ridiculous statement to make? I mean what to do you know about the evidence the prosecution have gathered? Besides, the case looks clear cut to me, there is not doubt about whether or not he killed her, only about the motive. With shouting 'britain first' and giving other explicit hints to his policitcal sentiment then there isn't much investigation going on, he could even have confessed.
 
"it's not terrorism, or the authorities would be treating it as terrorism"

*authorities are treating it as terrorism*

"well it's still not terrorism, because............ "
 
They like these things in London too, I think. I also think they will be investigating quite thoroughly. They normally let a while of time elapse between event & trial too for the very serious stuff, imo.
 
Javi said:
You do realise that this is a ridiculous statement to make? I mean what to do you know about the evidence the prosecution have gathered? Besides, the case looks clear cut to me, there is not doubt about whether or not he killed her, only about the motive. With shouting 'britain first' and giving other explicit hints to his policitcal sentiment then there isn't much investigation going on, he could even have confessed.
Click to expand...
Well, that's the very definition of irony.
 
Rado_N said:
"it's not terrorism, or the authorities would be treating it as terrorism"

*authorities are treating it as terrorism*

"well it's still not terrorism, because............ "
Click to expand...
And yet, not a sniff of any charge relating to terrorism.
 
Rednotdead said:
And yet, not a sniff of any charge relating to terrorism.
Click to expand...
Currently the police are investingating the murder with assistance from the North East Terrorist Unit. So yeah there is a sniff, I'd wager.

Whether there is enough like there wasn't with the Lee Rigby killers we will have to wait and see.
 
Rado_N said:
Do you consider the killing of Lee Rigby to be terrorism?
Click to expand...
I consider it to be whatever the authorities deemed it to be. I wasn't privy to the investigation and I wasn't present at the trial.

I now refer you to the Police statement :

"We are aware of the speculation within the media in respect of the suspect’s link to mental health services and this is a clear line of enquiry which we are pursuing.

We are also aware of the inference within the media of the suspect being linked to right wing extremism which is again a priority line of enquiry which will help us establish the motive for the attack on Jo.

We are keeping an open mind and I do not wish to add to the speculation as we need to ensure that we conduct a professional investigation and do not compromise the need to bring the person responsible to justice.

Based on information available at this time, this appears to be an isolated, but targeted attack upon Jo - there is also no indication at this stage that anyone else was involved in the attack. However we will be investigating how the suspect came to be in possession of an unlawfully held firearm."

If, after investigation, it's presented in court as a terrorist offence, fair enough. Maybe we should be keeping an open mind as well as the Police.
 
Unless I'm mistaken it looks like @Rednotdead thinks terrorism is only terrorism when the authorities treat it like terrorism. Unless they treat it like terrorism, in which case it isn't actually terrorism because of other reasons. But those reasons don't apply to other incidents because those other incidents are clearly terrorism because the authorities treated it like terrorism.

This whole "facts" lark is confusing.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Unless I'm mistaken it looks like @Rednotdead thinks terrorism is only terrorism when the authorities treat it like terrorism. Unless they treat it like terrorism, in which case it isn't actually terrorism because of other reasons. But those reasons don't apply to other incidents because those other incidents are clearly terrorism because the authorities treated it like terrorism.

This whole "facts" lark is confusing.
Click to expand...
Yes, we shouldn't bother with those silly little things called facts. Better just to ignore facts, go with gut instinct, and hang 'em high.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes, we shouldn't bother with those silly little things called facts. Better just to ignore facts, go with gut instinct, and hang 'em high.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what you just did here:

Rednotdead said:
Cheers. If they're treating it as terrorism I'd have thought they'd actually want longer to investigate links to organisations/other like minded individuals, his previous history etc. To me it looks more like they simply want it over and done with quickly and this was the best way of achieving that.
Click to expand...
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Isn't that what you just did here:
Click to expand...
No

This really is comical. I get castigated on here for not saying the Cox murder was a terrorist act, when the Police haven't even established the motivation as yet. Never mind, the Caf intelligentsia know the score regardless of Police investigations
 
Incredible turn out in Batley today... the way the whole community, particularly in Kirklees, has come together in the wake of this has been quite something.
 
Rednotdead said:
No

This really is comical. I get castigated on here for not saying the Cox murder was a terrorist act, when the Police haven't even established the motivation as yet. Never mind, the Caf intelligentsia know the score regardless of Police investigations
Click to expand...
Oh come off it, dude. You've been questioned (not castigated) initially for calling someone else's post rubbish whilst claiming that it's purely down to the actions of someone with mental illness, and when you've been asked for proof you've tried to change he argument. Much like you're doing right now.

I'm not saying that some of the responses to you haven't been overly aggressive, but don't pretend that you're somehow the sole voice of reason and people are needlessly shouting down your arguments.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Incredible turn out in Batley today... the way the whole community, particularly in Kirklees, has come together in the wake of this has been quite something.
Click to expand...
Great to hear.

I've just read that apparently, in a somewhat amazing twist of fate, that it's also Bernard Kenny's (the guy that got stabbed trying to help her) 78th birthday today.
 
Shame supporters of the Leave campaign thought it a good idea to fly their #VoteLeave banner overhead as Jo Cox's husband and friends were paying tribute to his wife in Trafalger Square today.
 
Marching said:
Shame supporters of the Leave campaign thought it a good idea to fly their #VoteLeave banner overhead as Jo Cox's husband and friends were paying tribute to his wife in Trafalger Square today.
Click to expand...

Beyond abhorrent. Shouldn't be too hard to track back on those responsible... Public indecency at the very least, right? Absolute scumbags.
 
So 'highlights' of today's evidence so far:

Owned a gold ornament of Third Reich eagle with swastika on it, a rune stone with a symbol of South African neo-Nazi movement and other Nazi type badges
Had books about Nazis + white history (e.g. March of the Titans, History of the White Race, Politics of the Holocaust, SS Race Theory) and Daily Mail clipping re: Norwegian killer Anders Brevik
Used library computer to search Nazi history and Britain National Party website as well as leaders of British far right, prominent in 60s and 70s and information and pictures of Jo Cox.

For a guy who wasn't in anyway politically motivated, he seems to be awfully politically motivated. On the plus side though he did look after his neighbours' gardens, so a mixed bag so far today.
 
Last edited:
Dobba said:
So 'highlights' of today's evidence so far:

Owned a gold ornament of Third Reich eagle with swastika on it, a rune stone with a symbol of South African neo-Nazi movement and other Nazi type badges
Had books about Nazis + white history (e.g. March of the Titans, History of the White Race, Politics of the Holocaust, SS Race Theory) and Daily Mail clipping re: Norwegian killer Anders Brevik
Used library computer to search Nazi history and Britain National Party website as well as leaders of British far right, prominent in 60s and 70s and information and pictures of Jo Cox.

For a guy who wasn't in anyway politically motivated, he seems to be awfully politically motivated. On the plus side though he did look after his neighbours' gardens, so a mixed bag so far today.
Click to expand...
Good enough to earn him a seat in the Lords, I'd say, right next to the future Lord Haw-Haw
 
Last edited:
Defence barrister has told the court they will not be calling any witnesses or presenting any evidence. Strange that they didn't refer to him being mentally ill, considering how sure the press and some on here were about it...

Photos of this in no way politically motivated person's flat have been made public:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-cox-killer-thomas-mair-9304223
 
Last edited:
Why is it, you think, that certain people are trying to play down the 'politically-motivated' thing?
 
Politically motivated murders can be seen as being a product of the political climate at the time - which it was suggested was being made dangerously toxic by certain people, for political aims.
 
SteveJ said:
Why is it, you think, that certain people are trying to play down the 'politically-motivated' thing?
Click to expand...
Because he's taken a small number of their political views, namely immigration and 'putting Brits first', to their extreme. Look at the reaction at the time by people like Louise Mensch or the newspapers and on here clinging to this 'mentally ill loner who helped with people's gardens' line.

Or even as the evidence came out like the Telegraph journalist who said his bookcase, with a Nazi eagle on top, could be that of anyone obsessed with WW2. The alt-right were infecting Twitter with the idea that he's a stooge and that the 'mainstream media' were in on the whole thing. He had to be mentally ill or a stooge because the alternative would involve a few seconds of looking into the mirror.
 
Cheers.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Politically motivated murders can be seen as being a product of the political climate at the time - which it was suggested was being made dangerously toxic by certain people, for political aims.
Click to expand...
The prosecution are saying exactly that.

After the verdicts, Sue Hemming, head of special crime and counter terrorism at the Crown Prosecution Service said: “Mair has offered no explanation for his actions but the prosecution was able to demonstrate that, motivated by hate, his pre-meditated crimes were nothing less than acts of terrorism designed to advance his twisted ideology.”

Following the verdicts, Richard Whittam QC, prosecuting, told the court that Mair had committed a terrorism offence when he murdered Cox, but added that it had not been necessary to prosecute him as a terrorist.

There were two reasons for this. Mair was charged with murder, which is a crime under common law and not an offence under counter-terrorism legislation; and the jury was only to be asked to decide whether or not Mair had committed the crime of murder. It was not asked to consider his motivation.

Prosecutors acknowledge privately that the febrile atmosphere in which the EU referendum campaign was waged appears certain to have contributed to Mair’s decision to murder his MP, but this played no part in their case. There was no need to refer to the referendum in order to establish his guilt.
Click to expand...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/23/thomas-mair-found-guilty-of-jo-cox-murder

Glad they're calling it out as terrorism as well.
 
It's good that the judge didn't let him speak after sentencing. He hasn't wanted to say anything up till now and his justifications or opinions are irrelevant.
 
Started at the beginning of this thread for a re-read and it seems that fairly quickly most of the posters here realized this was politically motivated probably helped that there was early involvement from the groups that investigate terror related cases.

What is really weird in this thread is the poster who questioned how the family was grieving, what a twat.
 
After the verdicts, Sue Hemming, head of special crime and counter terrorism at the Crown Prosecution Service said: “Mair has offered no explanation for his actions but the prosecution was able to demonstrate that, motivated by hate, his pre-meditated crimes were nothing less than acts of terrorism designed to advance his twisted ideology.”
Click to expand...

I wonder if @Rednotdead will finally accept the obvious truth now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.