That was him here just over 12 months ago, but he couldnt perform. Lets see if he goes off the boil by the end of the season.
Lingard to join West Ham on loan
- Thread starter VeevaVee
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
In a sense, it was, because he's talking about being fitter than anyone else at a time when fitness levels would have been relatively low with a congested fixture list where clubs desperately needed rotation, and he still couldn't get a look in. So from Jesse's perspective, "if not for tactical reasons, give me a chance because you need extra legs".
You seem to be confused about what point you're actually trying to make mate.
So is hypothetical form if he had played 19 games for United or current form for West Ham?
Because if it's current form for West Ham then i don't think 3 games is a big enough sample size to make firm statements on how good a season Lingard is having.
No lack of clarity on my part in terms of the point I am making which is based on current form it's not a stretch to say that Lingard would have more than 4 goals over the course of 19 games.
It is evident and clear to me that Lingard is fit and raring to go, he has hit the ground running and has something to offer and yes that is based on those 3 games as well as Lingards own comments quoted earlier in this thread. Some are already talking about an England recall further demonstrating that he is doing well. Is that not clear to you?
On the other hand based not only on his last 3 games but at least the last 10, the whole season thus far to be honest, Martial is disinterested, unmotivated, putting in half arsed performances and costing us points. Have a read of his performance thread in case you think i am alone in that assessment. I couldnt give a feck how many goals Martial has scored in previous seasons as unfortunately those goals do not count this season.
So yet again, based on current form Lingard is doing better than Martial. Feel free to argue otherwise if you wish as I would be interested in hearing the case for Martial over the last 10 games or so given you are of the view that 3 games is not a long enough stretch?
I'm happy for Lingard that he has currently a good time at West Ham but i hope he plays never again for us with this attitude "Who cares about stats because i'm the strongest and fittest player at the club".
So based on something Lingard has simply said, 3 games and totally ignoring his form and scoring ability over his entire Premier League career you are making predictions.
Yeah i'd say that is a stretch mate, but fair enough that's your opinion let's see how he does over the next 16 games.
That's all good mate seeing as i never mentioned how many goals Martial has scored in previous seasons.
This thread is like a loony bin and anyone banging on about lingaard not being given a chance should take a long hard look at themselves
Apologies mate, it was actually youngrell who quoted martials previous stats, not you. My mistake.
Well his (Lingard) forms over his entire premier league career hasn't always been crap to be fair.
Anyway I am of the view that Lingard would offer more than Martial AT THE MOMENT which let's be honest wouldnt be hard. Wan Bissaka would probably give us more up fron that Martial is at the moment.
I hope that changes as amazingly he is among the highest paid players in the PL on a long term contract and we really need him to start producing. Im not holding my breath however.
This was always going to happen, Lingard was always a good player but he clearly just felt too comfortable at United.
Being sent on loan is a shock to the system and he's given himself a kick up the back side that he's needed for a while. It helps too that he gets to play as the CAM rather than being placed on the wing (he clearly isn't a winger)
He's playing in a team that sits a lot deeper so can use his counter attacking abilities well, West Ham just suit him.
I'm happy for him and I think if it continues he should stay there.
Being sent on loan is a shock to the system and he's given himself a kick up the back side that he's needed for a while. It helps too that he gets to play as the CAM rather than being placed on the wing (he clearly isn't a winger)
He's playing in a team that sits a lot deeper so can use his counter attacking abilities well, West Ham just suit him.
I'm happy for him and I think if it continues he should stay there.
He wasn't given a chance this season. I think he had one start in a cup game and a few bench appearances, but he was already carrying the burden of not scoring or assisting in 15 games or whatever that record was. He was always a decent player and not a championship one like some people say, and just needed a fresh start. On the other hand, a performance like Villa was always coming, and who knows if Ole showed faith in him and kept playing him he could have done that for us this year.
Yet, the actual team that Ole played post lockdown looked extremely fit. Can't remember any passengers being carried.
He really is a fantasist, the dimwit had chance after chance after chance and blew every single one of them. I didnt think it was possible for me to dislike him any more than I did, but here we are!
Oh give over, just scroll up and peruse his stats from the past 10 years
That's just Ole putting on a facade in public. He does that regularly. Last year he said Alexis will come back from loan and prove everyone wrong. It's just his method of not taking the bait from the media.
Behind the scenes he's ruthless. This is a good listen (10 min onwards for the relevant part):
I think it's quite obvious that Ole is disgusted by Martial's performances this season. The stuff he says in that podcast, the fact that Martial lost the CF spot to Cavani a while back, and the attention to detail praise he does of Cavani in press conferences regularly.
Since that disgraceful performance vs Sheffield, Martial was benched in the next 3 league games. I think the only reason he got a start vs WBA was to give Greenwood a breather, and even then he was the first to be subbed off. Martial is clearly running out of lives just as Lingard was a year ago. Once Greenwood properly gets going that's the end of Martial.
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You don't remember, for example, people going on and on about Bruno needing a rest?
During the USA pre season , Moyes clearly was impressed by Lingard and presumably now hopes to make use of his running with or without the ball (mainly) in West Ham's depleted attack. Its new start for Jesse, without the baggage he accrued at OT. Once Jose left, Lingard's place in the squad was always in doubt, never mind his form and off field antics; his style of almost perpetual running 'off the ball' in diagonal runs in particular were not part of Ole's plans for going forward.
Jesse gave us a few good memories and important goals, so best of luck to him in his future career.
Jesse gave us a few good memories and important goals, so best of luck to him in his future career.
I don’t think those Lingard quotes are bad or a dig at United. He is just saying that he hoped to play, he didn’t play much but was training hard and keeping himself fit (basically doing his job).
Pleased for him, and Moyes.
I'm talking about the immediate post lockdown period, which is also the period Lingard is talking about. Everyone was fit and firing in that period.
For all the years Lingard plays for us, there is only 1 season he scored more than 4 goals in the league (2017/2018), so you can "would have" all you want, there is no merit. He's now playing for West Ham, not United, and there is a big difference (skill-wise, mentally-wise) between the 2 clubs.
Pleased it's started well for him.
Long may it continue
Long may it continue
Yes apparently it is easier to play better for mid table clubs when you have mid table players around you than it is playing for a top club with world class players around you. Bizarre then how the scoring charts and player of the year awards etc are dominated by players from the big clubs, I bet they would score even more if they were playing for West Ham.
At least that seems to be the logic of some in here.
Yes but he mentions staying fit throughout, waiting for a chance. Even if you isolate it to the immediate restart, Rashford just returned from injury and was playing poorly. Could have used phasing in.
Interesting to hear that and yes in fairness he was benched in the following games. Maybe Ole is as fed up with him as many (but not all) of us are.
That's the one year he started playing 10.
He won't be missed here. Lacked all punch and didn't create for himself or others. Seemed far too settled and I felt he played football with an arrogance that I last saw from Cleverley, thinking all you needed to do was pass to the next guy and move without ever threatening to score. His position in the front four made that more detrimental to the shape and balance of the team than a midfielder of the same ilk like Cleverley.
When he was replaced in the team by Bruno and Greenwood the team went up a few levels. It's clear he hasn't got what it takes to justify his place in the squad in the long run. I really like the team building going on now, with Diallo other youngsters being afforded space to stake a claim. You know Lingard would just tread water, not improving the team.
Teams set up more open against West Ham than Man Utd. He'll get more time and space to do these little things he's good at. It is a good move for him and one I hope is made permanent in the summer.
Martial is out of form but Lingard's United career was rightly over.
When he was replaced in the team by Bruno and Greenwood the team went up a few levels. It's clear he hasn't got what it takes to justify his place in the squad in the long run. I really like the team building going on now, with Diallo other youngsters being afforded space to stake a claim. You know Lingard would just tread water, not improving the team.
Teams set up more open against West Ham than Man Utd. He'll get more time and space to do these little things he's good at. It is a good move for him and one I hope is made permanent in the summer.
Martial is out of form but Lingard's United career was rightly over.
Wildly different circumstances. West Ham are viewed as a team who despite their currently lofty league position, can have 3 points taken from them. Did you see the space even shite like Sheff U gave them which led to Jesse winning the pen? Lingard is a good player, but also a system player, good in counter-attacking teams.
I like Jesse and really hope he continues to play well at West Ham... the way they play really suits him and he's a great fit for them.
The problem at United is that much of the time you will be spending matches where the team have 70% possession and are stuck trying to break down a team defending really compact with many men behind the ball. In these type of matches, you won't see the best of Jesse because he doesn't have the space and he hasn't got the vision of a Bruno Fernandes to pick a killer pass. For quick counters though and direct running, he's great.
The problem at United is that much of the time you will be spending matches where the team have 70% possession and are stuck trying to break down a team defending really compact with many men behind the ball. In these type of matches, you won't see the best of Jesse because he doesn't have the space and he hasn't got the vision of a Bruno Fernandes to pick a killer pass. For quick counters though and direct running, he's great.
It appears to me that Lingard is the new Welbeck. People will inexplicably miss him and compare him favorably to players still at the club.
Fcuk sake Jesse. Moyes must be delighted that Lingard wants to bring Mourinho's winning mentality to his West Ham side.
Doesn't Jesse know Moyes in a winner too.
I wonder whether we should keep him on as a reserve player across the midfield 3. His role in the team next season could probably depend on what we do to the RW and Poggers this summer. Should we neglect the RW and let the 2 young lads (Pellistri and Diallo) rotate on either wing with Rashford Martial, and especially if Poggers leaves us this summer, then i think it might not be such a bad idea to have him in the team as a reserve lad.. Save us buying someone else for the spot and we can make money from the sale of Andreas Periera.. Maybe he can do an Ashley Young to become a full back too.. So I'm not completely against the idea of keeping him for another season or 2 if the squad conditions allow him to..
The only thing we should is to take the chance and sell permanently.
It's like people forgot last few years completely just because of few freaking good games with West Ham!
Moyes has achieved a hell of a lot more in the game and managed far better footballers than Lingard is capable of being.
Fcuk sake Jesse. Moyes must be delighted that Lingard wants to bring Mourinho's winning mentality to his West Ham side.
Doesn't Jesse know Moyes in a winner too.
Having said that, I hope he continues to do well at West Ham. Lingard was never good enough for a club of this stature and anyone feel aggrieved due to his lack of chances needs to remember the ambitions this club supposedly still has. If anything he got too many chances over he years considering his lack of talent.
At the same time, I gave nothing against him and he clearly wasn't one of those players who stink the place up behind the scenes. If anything, he would have been someone who helped maintain a positive mood given his light heartedness (juvenile as feck but who cares).
Few West Ham fans with blue tick on twitter posted a lot about Lingard, saying how it would be fantastic if they make it permanent signing.
I hope we make full use of this and make decent money, also learn lessons from this. We could have done the same with Rojo to Everton last season.
I hope we make full use of this and make decent money, also learn lessons from this. We could have done the same with Rojo to Everton last season.
Its good for us, hopefully we can sell him for 20M Pounds. This will be significant for our budget next season. I am also hoping we try to loan out Dan James next season and hopefully he performs well during the loan spell and we can pond him off for another 15 - 20M during January Window.
We should have started doing this before, players like Rojo (sold for free), Jones and Mata should have been loaned or sold while ago. Now we all know we won't get a dime for these players.
Knowing when to sell players when there stock is high and cash in is an extremely important quality which top DOF have and they sell and use that budget to further strengthen the side. Knowing us we will probably recall Lingard and eventually release him free.
We should have started doing this before, players like Rojo (sold for free), Jones and Mata should have been loaned or sold while ago. Now we all know we won't get a dime for these players.
Knowing when to sell players when there stock is high and cash in is an extremely important quality which top DOF have and they sell and use that budget to further strengthen the side. Knowing us we will probably recall Lingard and eventually release him free.
Is this sarcastic? Can't tell!
Lingard is a decent premier League player and undoubtedly a consummate professional who just wants to play games. He wasn't happy with his stature here being a backup player so no chance he would revert back to that stature after a decent loan spell away.
He would also never have the aptitude to be a fullback!!
Looks a different player
Young players always need time, he always had the potential
Young players always need time, he always had the potential
Has he scored more than Martial this season ? Looks the far better player though. Should have sent Martial to loan instead of him