Ah yes, good choice. Fair enough, I remember him that day, he was outstanding.
But since then?
Lionel Messi
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Ah yes, good choice. Fair enough, I remember him that day, he was outstanding.
But since then?
he scored around 40 goals this season
i think one or two defenses were good enoug for you
So who is a player still playing who has done it time and again against the best defences and not had more than a few off nights?
Ronaldo is the one we normally draw comparisons with. Who were the "quality" defences he destroyed? I don't remember. The easiest to remember would be the champions league final goal against Chelsea, but Essien was playing at right back and lost him for the goal. So anyone?
Ronaldo is the one we normally draw comparisons with. Who were the "quality" defences he destroyed? I don't remember. The easiest to remember would be the champions league final goal against Chelsea, but Essien was playing at right back and lost him for the goal. So anyone?
Madrid are one of the very best teams in the world. If you rule them out, just how many 'quality defences' are we talking about here? Or does he just have to prove his worth against Inter, who have been threatening to collapse in Italy with some insipid performances against lowly sides?
Messi has done it against everyone, regularly, and that's why he's so revered even at this tender age. You're presenting a nonsensical argument Elvis. That doesn't mean he does it every time, no matter what anyone says, no player ever has
Madrid don't have a quality defence.
Holland 1974
He wasn't bad against us to be fair
He also got aplauded by fans in Brazil last year vs Dunga's Brazil, that's pretty rare you know
All I see in that is him having a lot of the ball and doing nothing with it!
I'm not getting into the whole Messi debate again.
If you really want to look at his record against English sides who have reputations as having a great defence (ie not Arsenal reserves) or Mourinho's Inter. Messi hasn't scored many goals against those teams, has he?
Anyway, I'll just enjoy the dying wankfest and Villarreal might put the final nail into the coffin.
Made a mockery of Bayern last year
and they couldn'tget near him in the home leg either
Some of Y'all must remember Messi used to get injured for months before his last season, there's only so many big games he's participated in
and they couldn'tget near him in the home leg either
Some of Y'all must remember Messi used to get injured for months before his last season, there's only so many big games he's participated in
Meh, I guess this is what comes with being viewed as the best in the world, God knows Ronaldo got it
I see we dealt with him pretty well, restricted him to long range shots and not much more.
Bayern? We were on our way to sweeping them aside until Rafael's moment of madness if you hadn't forgotten.
Even Maradona didn't destroy us, all players are human
Messi is young, he has the potential to reach the greats but I have no doubt he will, let him play enough big games first for people to get a true view of him, remember when people said Ronaldo never scored against Spanish teams (Villareal) well now he scores against them on a daily basis, you think if Messi came to the Prem he wouldn't do it to English sides?
Messi is young, he has the potential to reach the greats but I have no doubt he will, let him play enough big games first for people to get a true view of him, remember when people said Ronaldo never scored against Spanish teams (Villareal) well now he scores against them on a daily basis, you think if Messi came to the Prem he wouldn't do it to English sides?
so the guy scores three against real madrid -not good defense
four against arsenal -second class players-
brazil -what?-
Manchester United -ferdinand fault, not messis right-
Bayern -we could have beat them if it wasnt we didnt-
and still think he never ever scored a goal against a good defense
hugely debatable
Ronaldinho took part in both goals - assist for the first (OG) and started the counter for the second. Also pulled the strings throughout the whole match.
I said his record against top defences is poor. I count his goal against us.
Arsenal 2nd leg, do you seriously think agent Silvestre form part of any good defences nowadays? Seriously?
For the record, we did beat Bayern at home, just that it wasn't enough. If you seriously think Bayern have a good defence, you seriously need to watch some highlights of this season's CL.
Brazil - okay, I'll give you that one, I have the impression that Messi generally underperforms with Argentina.
you'd think the sun shone right out of his arse.
The criteria is extremely harsh, I really doubt players got scrutinised like this back in the day, I read some article about it when Messi got criticised in the first leg against Arsenal, instead of people appreciating him playing a team game they wanted him to run past everyone when it wasn't even needed.
This is like saying did Chubby Ron score against Madrid in the Bernabeu in his dynamic season at Barca? Nobody would say that because his season was still sensational, people wouldn't clutch at straws which is why I think the game has become too scrutinised.
Ronaldo was criticised heavily for missing a penalty against Chelsea in the cl final to the point people didn't even mention he got the opening goal. Even Maradona missed a pen in the World Cup, shit happens, but with the extreme media pressure players get these days, they can not breathe.
No,no,no Ronaldinho did not pull the strings in the whole match and was well dealt with for the majority, it was the second leg that he truly turned it on. You see, we mention these incidents and it automatically translates to Ronaldinho pulling the strings in the whole match, the margin is so thin.
So if Bojan would have scored from Messi's pass as it was a sitter today would people rewrite history and say he pulled the strings in the whole match? because when we look back in a few years tha's just how it would have been translated
he scored almost 40 goals this season, he is only 22 and already scored over 130 goals as a pro footballer and you only concede he scored 2 goals against good defenses
you'd think the sun shone right out of his arse.
who? me? far from that
Nah.
As I recall, the papers in Spain said something like: Ronaldo Misses pen in the final of a major competition. Now he's a great player!
alluding, of course to Maradona, Platini and Baggio, who've all done the same.
His record against top defences isnt brilliant, but who's is? There will be several out and out strikers who have good records against top defences, but Messi isnt an out and out striker is he.
I ask again, whats Ronaldo's record against top defences look like? I dont imagine its much different.
Not necessarily you.
My position's always been clear: I think Messi is one of this generation's great players? But at Maradona's level? No, not yet.
Sure, I've seen games from 1982, particularly Gentile against Maradona. I know how they stopped him. But the thing is, Maradona adapted his game. Plus I honestly think he had much more variety, which simply made him difficult to stop.
Messi may yet learn from this, but I've been irritated beyond belief by people even comparing him to Maradona.
The same comment was levelled at Ronaldo until 07-08 when he scored against all of the big 4.
Anyway, let me rephrase, good defenses is a bit too vague a term, there are plenty around. However, top defenses are few and far between, and imho, Messi's record against those is nothing to write home about, especially given the fact that some people want to credit him as being one of the best players ever.
He's doing as well as anyone right now and deserved his WPoTY in 2009, but not worthy of comparison with the likes of Maradona yet.
Ronaldo has a better record than him for starts. But this isn't the point here.
The point is I don't think he's worthy of comparison with the likes of Maradona.
ok but over here, well it's all I heard about. I remember goal.com giving him a player rating 'he will be haunted forever by this miss' I was like, I swear we just won the Champions League? That's how scrutinied the game is these days, Zlatan has scored some crucial goals this season, but let's be honest, he has no chance of being truly respected for the right or wrong reasons.
Imagine going through history at some of the world class talents we adore, and skimming through if they scored or dribbled past everybody in every big game. It would truly take the fun out of the game.
i only compared him with rooney and ron
and always said that R and R are better players
but to go to the extremes that Cal? goes to minimize messi is ridiculous
My comment wasn't directed at you. Are you denying that there are plenty of people here who have claimed that Messi is on a similar level with Maradona?
He could reach Maradona's level when it's all said and done, probably the only player of this generation people realise he has the potential to do.
He went missing BIG TIME over both semi final matches. Thats what I know. I reckon he's a bottler with no balls.
please take the bait
I'm not getting involved in a debate based on what could happen.
For all we know, Pedro or Macheda could become that player, or more likely, they won't.
yeah, but Ronnie set up Messi as well. He set up Larsson,Eto'o twice. Messi's final product in that match was somehow lacking(Ronaldinho missed some as well), but he was more influential than him IMO. Messi had part in the red card, but Ronnie had part in both goals and was marked tighter than him throughout the match(sometimes even by 3-4).
Which goals against top defences are we talking about here?
Most people feel Messi will become worthy of comparison with Maradona, rather than being worthy of comparison already. For example if he retired tomorrow, most people wouldnt consider him as good a player. But the talent and ability are there, he needs to continue working hard and being successful over a sustained period.
to be fair. Arsenal had a fairly strong defence for that game. Not the strongest, but wouldn't call them a reserve squad either.
But the suggestion that Messi needs space to operate is pretty accurate imo.
I think he was out of position today. More often than not he was being drawn further back to get service and try to do something with the ball. He doesn't have that wicked snap shot the likes of Ronaldo or even Ibra have. I think he would have been more effective had barca played their one touch football inside the box that we know they can.
and for the record Pele>Maradonna
you are dead to me
dead!!!!!!
btw, i really hope he gets to the level of maradona, as an argie i would love to see him play for us the diego did
but mostly, i'd love to see a player to reach the levels maradona did because that is what makes football the greatest show on earth, players like maradone, zidane, pele, best, ronaldo, rooney, giggsy
is what make us fan turn on the tv or go to the stadiums and enjoy
and if he doesn't play good for argentina, he can feck off and stay in barcelona for all i care
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