It seems Brendan 'Kevin Keegan' Rodgers does indeed have the ability to coach a side capable of defending.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Well done.
My comment wasn't in any way shocking though. What do you get out of proving a United fan wrong about a bitter rival on a United forum? do you expect us to be optimistic about your club or something?
The Wall...new name for the defence.
I guess past posts make a fool of us all. However, the overwhelming view of Rodgers on here has been so off the mark it merits a mention.
To be fair, you've gone on a decent run of form when other top four challengers have slumped, much the same way as Southampton early in the season and United from early December onwards. It's sustaining a good run of form, or building on it, that none of the top four contenders have done and why it's so close. I don't know how much credit Rodgers can get for that. You were poor today but managed to get the three points. That's commendable but not a cause for praising your manager.
He does deserve credit for how he's handled Sturridge though. In a time when it was vital you picked up points in order to stay in the race for the top four, he has used him sparingly, minimising his risk of injury, while still picking up points.
Really hope sakho will be back for next weekend. Lovren is terrifying.
You don't know how much credit for Liverpool's form?
In case you are not aware, here is Liverpool's form since United beat them in December - 10 games:
DWWDWWWDWW
7 wins - 3 draws - 0 defeats - 24 points out of 30 available.
Liverpool were 10 points behind United and are now 2 points behind.
Of course you can attribute Liverpool's rise up the table to the form of other sides but that would be a very blinkered way of looking at it.
Rodgers has got these guys going and that's worthy of credit and it also puts to bed the abuse and mocking he was getting for being a fraud in the autumn.
TBF a lot of Liverpool fans were writing Rodgers off after our poor form in the first half of the season. I stopped coming on here for a few months as it was hard enough battling against fellow supporters let alone the enemy.
Does it? I don't think Rodgers has put anything to bed just yet.
Liverpool sit 6th, which is the absolute minimum position you'd expect in the league. That may change but it will be a huge challenge.
He royally fecked up an easy CL Group, looking totally out of his depth in the conpetition, and Liverpool will now toil in the pointless Europa League.
He's won a few winnable ties in the FA Cup, so far managing to avoid serious opposition.
Until he achieves something in the game, he'll not have proved any of his detractors wrong. You can't just build your legacy on some half decent runs of form. Something his PR team on here don't seem to understand.
Ok then
ragewerker returns.I think most of us agreed he was a very good manager. I don't think any of us were saying he should be sacked. My opinion was that he should be given until the end of the season to turn things around (which to his credit he has done). I thought he'd struggle to turn things around, despite being a good manager, mainly due to the lack of confidence in the team at the time. I know @Dumbstar was getting frustrated about his refusal to drop Gerrard, but again, I don't think he ever said he wanted Rodgers out immediately or anything of the sort. He also made it perfectly clear how highly he thought of Rodgers. Don't think @Bob Loblaw was calling for him to be sacked either, nor was @Rafateria.
Didn't you predict a title win in the summer then feck off under a rock when it quickly materialised you were shit?
Hard to keep track who's who these days. Rinse and repeat.
This is a bitter post. He's only 42 years old. Why are you talking about legacy? He's young enough to gain from those experiences, and is experienced enough to build teams. Yes they were awful in the CL. At the start though I fancied Basel to go ahead as they've been through this recently. For Liverpool it's about getting some continuity over a period of seasons and his methods have proven that he can get them up there.
As for the line in bold. We've been scraping past lower tier sides. You can only beat what's in front of you, and in the cup you haven't a say who you get. I think we'll win the Cup though. Confident against Arsenal at home and that should galvanize us. I expect big names to be fired up for a knockout challenge.
It was a riposte to the king-making of Rodgers which is resurfacing after a purple patch of form, when he was persona non grata a matter of weeks ago. He has his own PR team on here so there should be some tempering to the wafts of bullshit.
I'm still unconvinced he'll achieve anything at Liverpool. If someone told me he'd leave having won no major trophies, it wouldn't surprise me at all. (The David Brent twat).
@redman5
I did want Rodgers out if his constant love affair with Gerrard meant we would miss out on a top four spot. However, I have also stated (maybe on another forum) that he's the best manager we've had since a young Dalglish left in 1991. We would miss his progressive football and very few other managers would make us as sexy as he has (and come to us). My location, set many months ago, reflects that belief.
I'm just so fcking glad the Gerrard issue is resolved (won't play every game, tough, its over) and we can go back to being Rodgers' sexy beasts.
I'm glad he's back actually as I was seriously worried about Pogue's mental wellbeing. Maybe Kraftwerker and him can get their Hans Solo and Chewbacca act back on the road.
I wasn't actually referring to Liverpool fans on here, more of a general thing. Lots of doubters coming from those who thought he was the 2nd coming of Christ back in May last year. I suppose it just highlights the fickle nature of the modern day football fan.
@redman5
I did want Rodgers out if his constant love affair with Gerrard meant we would miss out on a top four spot. However, I have also stated (maybe on another forum) that he's the best manager we've had since a young Dalglish left in 1991. We would miss his progressive football and very few other managers would make us as sexy as he has (and come to us). My location, set many months ago, reflects that belief.
I'm just so fcking glad the Gerrard issue is resolved (won't play every game, tough, its over) and we can go back to being Rodgers' sexy beasts.
Totally agree with you on the Gerrard situation. An absolute giant/legend at Anfield, who, at the age of nearly 35, has sadly become a liability in a side built on pace & movement
I think the comments about his purchases are still very valid.
As a manager, his decisions regarding the use of Gerrard have also been questionable.
Let's not hide the fact that general concesus on here and in the media, other fan forums is we are shite, and you are still chasing. You were also very poor in CL.
Even in today's match, good result but was really a bit of a steal, bit like many of our games this year.
Still think your manager is given far too much credit.
So just to confirm February was our 'Month Of Death' while March is Utd's. We'd be playing (played) teams above us and thus better than us - as was quoted at the time.
West Ham (H)
Everton (A)
Spurs (H)
Southampton(A)
City (H) to come
10 points out of 15 if we predictably lose to City. I would have snapped your hand off start of the month if that was offered.
West Ham (H)
Everton (A)
Spurs (H)
Southampton(A)
City (H) to come
10 points out of 15 if we predictably lose to City. I would have snapped your hand off start of the month if that was offered.
Not having a go at you per se. But that is exactly, exactly how we would like to play it. Keep this impression that Rodgers is over-rated so 1) he's not poached and 2) other managers continue to think he's a lucky young upstart who'll be found out soon enough.
I think where Rodgers cocked up early on this season was in believing that we could still play our all-out, expansive, attacking style, minus the likes of Suarez & Sturridge. & also in trying to incorporate a host of new signings. We were still conceding goals game after game (just like last season) however, we didn't have the firepower (unlike last season) to combat this. He certainly deserves credit for adopting a more 'pragmatic' approach when a lot of managers would have continued along the same lines simply 'hoping' for the best.
He's certainly proving that given the right forwards, his team can terrorize opposition defences. He's also started to show that he can set his side up to be difficult to beat, & can win games even when not firing on all cylinders.
I think he deserves a lot of credit in turning things around. 3 at the back took awhile to work, but with settling on Can, Skrtel, and Sakho, Rodgers has found a way to open up the midfield to play as they did last season. There is so much speed in the midfield now that our defense is looking solid. Sterling ,Coutinho, Sturridge, and the new signings coming good are forcing teams to retreat deeper, which in turn is making us look like last season. He's turned it around.
I think Rodgers is probably the best manager liverpool can really hope to get (not having a dig) and with a bit of continuity (say 3+ years)
and experience he might become pretty good.
Cant really accuse him of playing boring football either so i'd be inclined to hold on to him if i was a liverpool supporter.
There'll be times when the team or his decisions will look pretty crap but if they stick with him he'll get them as far up the table as can reasonably be expected.
Don't really expect them to compete with City, Chelsea and hopefully us long term though. Just a big gap in terms of spending power among other things.
and experience he might become pretty good.
Cant really accuse him of playing boring football either so i'd be inclined to hold on to him if i was a liverpool supporter.
There'll be times when the team or his decisions will look pretty crap but if they stick with him he'll get them as far up the table as can reasonably be expected.
Don't really expect them to compete with City, Chelsea and hopefully us long term though. Just a big gap in terms of spending power among other things.
Rodgers definitely deserves credit for the turnaround. He looked like he was on his way out but he made adjustments and they have worked well. We have a big fight on our hands to hold them out of the top 4. Luckily our GD is considerably better at the moment, could be key.
It's utterly depressing that a blowhard like Rodgers has been able to turn around Liverpool's early season form, when at one time they looked like finishing below West Ham and Swansea, while our pedigreed philosopher has been dragging us along with shit football.
Are the defensive options in Skrtel, Can, Sakho, Toure, Johnson et.al better than our lot? How come he has them playing good football with their midfield and attacking options than we are with ours? Are their midfield and striking options better than us? How they able to execute fast paced, high pressing football and we cannot? How has he made a 3 man defense work with players that United fans love to laugh at, while we looked completely clueless with similar set-up?
Both Southampton and Spurs changed managers, had a similar player turn around as us, Spurs have played 10+ more matches than us; all with lower level players, lower transfer spend and wage bill. How can look like football teams, while we look like a bunch of drunk strangers kicking around at the local park?
Are the defensive options in Skrtel, Can, Sakho, Toure, Johnson et.al better than our lot? How come he has them playing good football with their midfield and attacking options than we are with ours? Are their midfield and striking options better than us? How they able to execute fast paced, high pressing football and we cannot? How has he made a 3 man defense work with players that United fans love to laugh at, while we looked completely clueless with similar set-up?
Both Southampton and Spurs changed managers, had a similar player turn around as us, Spurs have played 10+ more matches than us; all with lower level players, lower transfer spend and wage bill. How can look like football teams, while we look like a bunch of drunk strangers kicking around at the local park?
United fans on here were full of it before the season started saying that LFC would not perform this season because we had lost Suarez and the extra games due to CL/EL football would give United a huge edge. I suppose 2 pts after 25 games is what you had in mind. Even with the team requiring a total change of formation, integration of many new players, Lovren falling to pieces and Sturridge out for half the season ..... BR has shown that he has the nouse and balls to handle the team. We all want a CL slot and yes that is definitely going to be a challenge, but the recovery, under huge pressure, has been nothing less than a very impressive piece of management by BR.
It's far from pointless if you win it. I don't think we will but it's still possible at this stage.
Tell that to Man City, Chelsea, Southampton and Spurs !
Last season was 'half-decent' ? Not every manager has to win competitions to say they have 'achieved' something in the game. There are basically just 4 trophies available each season and the likes of Chelsea, City and United, with their huge cash reserves, are always going to have an advantage to some degree.
That said as it relates to BR then to a certain degree I agree, he needs to win a trophy. It will be very difficult for us to win the PL or CL (but not impossible as has already been shown) and challenging for either will not be possible season after season, we need everything to come together in our favour (our performances, opponents form etc.) to achieve that.
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All very fair questions.
It's uncanny isn't it. Liverpool's 3-4-3 looks superb. Everyone works hard, there's not a passenger to speak of in there. Even slight, technical players like Coutinho are getting stuck in hard not getting bullied. I honestly believe that Smalling, Jones and Rojo are better individually than Can, Skrtel and Lovren/Sakho, but when our 3 play together, they play like they're blindfolded, concussed and each with one leg longer than the other. Their back 3 looks to have gained an immediate understanding, and it looks incredibly solid. Even WWE Superstar Martin Skrtel looks capable of playing some actual football in there, and not just DDT-ing forwards into the turf.
Liverpool often field a midfield two of Henderson and Allen. I do quite like Henderson, but I think we could field two or three better midfield duos than Henderson and Allen, yet our midfield constantly looks cautious, slow and clueless.
We often talk about 'needing' Fellaini, for height and physicality, and if we fielded a team of our most technical footballers, we predict that we'd get bullied and torn apart. Where's Liverpool's Fellaini? Where's their brute to stop them getting bullied in midfield? There isn't one. There's plenty of muscle in the back 3, but infront of that, there's hardly any. Everyone works hard off the ball. They never seem to tire. Rodgers' plan appears to be based on speed, both in movement and in use of the ball. 'The Philosophy' looks like it is based on the exact opposite
I do think their attacking options are better than ours. On paper, they shouldn't be. Rooney, RVP, Falcao, Di Maria, Mata; at the end of deadline day, our frontline sounded mental with the new acquisitions. It looked like we were going to play ridiculous Keegan football. But it hasn't gone that way, except for the conceding. Sterling, Coutinho and Sturridge are all performing better and look better in just about every way. So much speed and movement. You don't want to give any of them a sniff in the final 3rd, and if any of them have grass to run into on the counter, you're in trouble. Can you say the same for any of our forwards? They'd all lose a footrace with a 5 yard headstart
None of us really know what instructions Van Gaal or Rodgers are giving their players, but I predict Rodgers' instructions are much simpler. Liverpool were gash in the early part of the season. Rodgers made a tactical change which had an immediate impact. United are still trying to come to terms with the new tactics from last summer.
I imagine this is what our players are like in training as they attempt to come to terms with 'The Philosophy'
TL;DR United bad Liverpool good.
You'll beat City.
It is unsurprising that it has taken the younger players some time to adjust, shocking that Lovren and Lambert (and to an extent Balotelli, though clearly Balo wasn't a BR buy) have proven to be far less effective than imagined.
Markovic (20), Coutinho (22), Sterling (20), Ibe (19), Can (20), Origi (20), Flanagan (21), Manquillo (20), Moreno (22), Henderson (24), Allen (24), Sakho (24), Balo (if he stays, 24) and even Sturridge is still only 25. We may even bring back Texeira (22), Ojo (17), Wisdom (21) and Ilori (22) from loan and are already bringing through, with 1st team games under their belts, Rossiter (18) & Williams (18) and we can also expect to see Wilson (17), Sinclair (17), Dunn (20) and Canos (18) join them soon : all young players are understandably inconsistent but many of these have already shown that they are going to be excellent buys and fixtures in the team for years to come. They are a wonderful basis for what is still a very very young, and developing, squad.
Where I believe BR/Transfer committee fecked up was in not bringing in one or two more mature players last Summer, this will be necessary (though generally contrary to FSG's transfer policy) this coming Summer when we will likely lose all of Gerrard (35), Johnson (30), Toure (34), Jones (32) and Enrique (28).
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Doubt it. Sakho and Skrtel's top level is higher than just about any of your guys'. The big problem has been that Sktrel's level has been extremely erratic for some 18-24 months and Sakho took a while to get going.
As for Can, he's defensively the weakest (I refuse to mention Lovren, he's barely a defender), but he's there for being passable, calm and good on the ball. Still learning the position.
To be fair, we've tried the whole 'passing it patiently around the back to draw out the opposition' for the past two seasons without ever really being good at it. It's only this season the team is starting to look proficient and confident at playing possession football.
Fair post. I don't think their defensive options are that much better at all. We have to face facts that their attack is though. Whereas their attack complements each other very well and relies on pace ours is overrated and just doesn't gel. Also, despite what people say about Rodgers (and I am a United fan) he is showing (and has shown) that he is a good manager. With more financial power I don't think he would have trouble challenging for trophies regularly.
I think Sakho is impressive, and I'm surprised his ability seems to divide opinion so much. I think he's quality. I'd have him at United. Skrtel is looking solid in this back 3 where he looks to have a bit more cover, but individually as a footballer I don't think he is too great. I'd take Smalling over him if Smalling could stay fit for longer than 24 hours. I think most United fans would, whereas most Liverpool fans would take Skrtel so there's probably no agreeing over that.
Performance and form wise, your defence looks significantly better as a unit, even considering the back 3 is occupied by Can who is largely unfamiliar with the position, and Lovren who has been LOLbad for most of the season.
Yes. A player like Skrtel alone would do wonders for you. United's defense has no central figure.
no he wouldn't. Our biggest problem is, that we don't play as a team. Too many of our players aren't working both ways and there is little coordination between different parts of the team. You don't fix these issues with better players (and its up to debate, if Skrtel is any better than our lot), but with better coaching.
Its too early to praise Rodgers to the skies, but he certainly turned things around. Liverpool was a mess at the beginning of the season and now they are playing great football again.