Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

A lot of people on here said we had a lousy transfer window but as I have said several times the big achievement in Klopp's first summer window was the excellent work we did re-balancing the squad.
We spent virtually nothing as far as net spend goes and got good money for so many players the manager didn't want. Future windows can be much more settled.

New stand, team playing well, Mane has been brilliant, Wijnaldum has gone a little unnoticed (was at the game and watched him closely yesterday), but he has been very solid & compliments the rest of the midfield and forward players very well.

Add to that the transformed Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino always a threat plus a fully fit Henderson - we look a real team. Decent strength in depth on the bench too.

The biggest plus has been Matip, getting him on a free could well be the signing of the season.

A very difficult fixture list so far and we look in a good league position despite that.
I didn't think we would make the top 4 but I am a little more optimistic we may now. However, it's far too early and other teams are also looking good too.
 
I don't think Klopp will be attracted by Bayern, Man Utd, Madrid etc. His greatest delight is to create world stars, not to have them ready made. Paraphrasing, The day when a great team can only be created with immense wealth is the day I retire from football. If he wanted a superclub he could have gone to one after Dortmund.
 
Leftback99 said:
A bit of both. The Arsenal side they played against was particularly weak compared to today's line up (Holding, Chambers at CB, no Ozil, no Cazorla starting). I'd expect us to beat that side comfortably but not today's.
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But it was also the start of the season for us too :)

And we were missing Kaurius, Matip, sturridge against Arsenal and Moreno played left back. That's 3 from our first choice back line and our main striker.

The way we played against Arsenal early in the second half I doubt it would have mattered who was in their defence.

We played a more or less full strength Tottenham and Chelsea, give or take one or two players - and we had players missing for those too.

Do you think maybe the reason why we picked up 7 from 9 in 3 difficult away trips to London was because we played really well and deserved it?
 
Finn MacCool said:
But it was also the start of the season for us too :)

And we were missing Kaurius, Matip, sturridge against Arsenal and Moreno played left back. That's 3 from our first choice back line and our main striker.

The way we played against Arsenal early in the second half I doubt it would have mattered who was in their defence.

We played a more or less full strength Tottenham and Chelsea, give or take one or two players - and we had players missing for those too.

Do you think maybe the reason why we picked up 7 from 9 in 3 difficult away trips to London was because we played really well and deserved it?
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Stop talking sense! :)
 
There's plenty of objective praise on here from Man Utd fans too!
 
The biggest compliment I can give Klopp's system is that their lacklustre midfield and on paper sub-par defence is rarely exposed.

Other coaches should study how the German teams broke the Klopp code in his second last and last season with Dortmund. I think they bypassed the pressure with some hoofballs.
 
redman5 said:
10/04/16 - Liverpool 4 -1 Stoke City

14/04/16 - Liverpool 4 - 3 Dortmund

17/04/16 - Bournemouth 1 - 2 Liverpool

20/04/16 - Liverpool 4 - 0 Everton

4 games in 10 days towards the end of last season. 4 victories with 14 goals scored. So tell me again why we're going to tire, especially as we have no European commitments this season. Wishful thinking on your part maybe ?
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You were not pressing like this since the beginning of last season. In fact Klopp didn't really implement this style successfully much last year. So yeah, the situation is different since you will have had 6-7 months of this kind of pressing and intensity going into the second part of the season. If you cannot see the difference, then it is you who is blinkered.

Nonetheless we will see when the Christmas period fixture pile up comes.
 
SwansonsTache said:
The biggest compliment I can give Klopp's system is that their lacklustre midfield and on paper sub-par defence is rarely exposed.

Other coaches should study how the German teams broke the Klopp code in his second last and last season with Dortmund. I think they bypassed the pressure with some hoofballs.
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And a lot of teams will do this. I fully expect Mourinho to actually implement this with Pogba and Zlatan providing the height up front. We will go long and bypass their midfield and their defense will get exposed.
 
SwansonsTache said:
The biggest compliment I can give Klopp's system is that their lacklustre midfield and on paper sub-par defence is rarely exposed.
.
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I think Klopp has done really with regards to the defense.

Lovren was overrated at Southampton and had a horrendous Liverpool start, but he's actually been in good form for a while. I'd seen a little of Matip in Germany and he looked alright, he's settled really quickly and looks good. Clyne is a good RB and imo Milner has done really well at LB (my only criticism is I've seen him look a little dodgy at defending one v one, but could be wrong).
 
johnny boy said:
A lot of people on here said we had a lousy transfer window but as I have said several times the big achievement in Klopp's first summer window was the excellent work we did re-balancing the squad.
We spent virtually nothing as far as net spend goes and got good money for so many players the manager didn't want. Future windows can be much more settled.

New stand, team playing well, Mane has been brilliant, Wijnaldum has gone a little unnoticed (was at the game and watched him closely yesterday), but he has been very solid & compliments the rest of the midfield and forward players very well.

Add to that the transformed Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino always a threat plus a fully fit Henderson - we look a real team. Decent strength in depth on the bench too.

The biggest plus has been Matip, getting him on a free could well be the signing of the season.

A very difficult fixture list so far and we look in a good league position despite that.
I didn't think we would make the top 4 but I am a little more optimistic we may now. However, it's far too early and other teams are also looking good too.
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Matip could be the signing of the season for you guys. We got Zlatan for free :)
 
Ruffian said:
I don't think Klopp will be attracted by Bayern, Man Utd, Madrid etc. His greatest delight is to create world stars, not to have them ready made. Paraphrasing, The day when a great team can only be created with immense wealth is the day I retire from football. If he wanted a superclub he could have gone to one after Dortmund.
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You talk as if Liverpool have been trying to create a team of world beaters for a while now. It's just that their transfers have been shite to underwhelming generally.
 
NK86 said:
You talk as if Liverpool have been trying to create a team of world beaters for a while now. It's just that their transfers have been shite to underwhelming generally.
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He's a good manager for a team like Liverpool though, as atm the best players aren't going to go there, but Klopp is very good at getting decent and good players to go up a level.

I imagine this suits the owners down to the ground too.
 
Fluid nature of the front 6 gives them a lot of insurance against injuries, getting tired or coming under pressure late on is unclear for me, some teams do & some teams don't. Also in the League it depends who you get to play last 8 games - 5 teams struggling to stay up who are suddenly super motivated by a new Manager & are putting in the 110%, your immediate rivals who might get a lucky break, someone falls over at the wrong time, something like that or half a dozen teams who are already on the beach?

Coutinho blows too hot/cold for me & is a bit of a cock-knocker. Milner would be a good injury for them to get <---- I'm not allowed to say that am I? What I mean is that he is a key man given that he takes the penalties Moreno is the back up. Mane getting nobbled would also be nice a concern

All looking very competitive up the top end, write off Arsenal for being too fragile when things go against them, us & Chelsea for still being a bit shit as works in progress leaves an hopeful Nation backing City & hoping Aguero stays fit. Liverpool can be got at if they lose a bit of confidence, the momentum is with them, atm. The Arsenal & Chelsea league games do look to have been quite well timed.
 
SwansonsTache said:
The biggest compliment I can give Klopp's system is that their lacklustre midfield and on paper sub-par defence is rarely exposed.

Other coaches should study how the German teams broke the Klopp code in his second last and last season with Dortmund. I think they bypassed the pressure with some hoofballs.
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Our midfield has been far from lacklustre so far! What do you mean "on paper sub par defence"? Just because we didn't spend millions on a centre half maybe? You don't have to.

NK86 said:
Matip could be the signing of the season for you guys.
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Glad you agree with me.
 
johnny boy said:
Our midfield has been far from lacklustre so far! What do you mean "on paper sub par defence"? Just because we didn't spend millions on a centre half maybe? You don't have to.
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Your midfield with Wijnaldum and Henderson is lacklustre. Also as you can see I wrote on paper sub-par defence. See the game against Arsenal as an example.
 
We should put Fellaini up front & see what they're made of. A slightly less bent than usual referee for an Anfield night game & we might do OK.

<I'm mainly posting in the style of RAWK this morning>

Pressure high up the park & good ball retention at appropriate times & confidence from winning games all helps with the defending. Also he's got Migs & Moreno out of the team. Bet they looked at the goals conceded in the Burnley game too, which should have been strangled at source really. I don't think either of Matip or Klavan are great but they seem to be calm & consistent. Lovren has settled down too, where are the stepovers & dreadful Beckenbauer impressions these days?
 
Finn MacCool said:
But it was also the start of the season for us too :)

And we were missing Kaurius, Matip, sturridge against Arsenal and Moreno played left back. That's 3 from our first choice back line and our main striker.

The way we played against Arsenal early in the second half I doubt it would have mattered who was in their defence.

We played a more or less full strength Tottenham and Chelsea, give or take one or two players - and we had players missing for those too.

Do you think maybe the reason why we picked up 7 from 9 in 3 difficult away trips to London was because we played really well and deserved it?
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You played well and deserved the wins, you can only beat what's in front of you. I think you'll challenge for the title. I hope we play against the same Arsenal team.
 
Attack is good. And they do play decent football. However I think their improvement from last season is marginal and over the course of the season they will have problems. I'll own up and admit if they do well but for now I don't see them finishing above 5th.
 
NK86 said:
You were not pressing like this since the beginning of last season. In fact Klopp didn't really implement this style successfully much last year. So yeah, the situation is different since you will have had 6-7 months of this kind of pressing and intensity going into the second part of the season. If you cannot see the difference, then it is you who is blinkered.

Nonetheless we will see when the Christmas period fixture pile up comes.
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Have you actually seen our fixtures over the Christmas period ? I think you're over-egging the 'pile-up' scenario. From the 17/12/16 to the 02/01/17 we play a grand total of 4 games in 15 days. Hardly a pile-up is it ?

If we fail to make a challenge for a top 4 spot this season it'll be because of loss of form, injuries, etc, & not some sort of mythical burn out.
 
montpelier said:
We should put Fellaini up front & see what they're made of. A slightly less bent than usual referee for an Anfield night game & we might do OK.

<I'm mainly posting in the style of RAWK this morning>

Pressure high up the park & good ball retention at appropriate times & confidence from winning games all helps with the defending. Also he's got Migs & Moreno out of the team. Bet they looked at the goals conceded in the Burnley game too, which should have been strangled at source really. I don't think either of Matip or Klavan are great but they seem to be calm & consistent. Lovren has settled down too, where are the stepovers & dreadful Beckenbauer impressions these days?
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The dangers of playing the long ball against us is that you still have to get men forward to support the forwards, & we'll still hassle the life out of you even in our own half. Lose possession & you run the risk of the counter-attack. Something we're pretty good at.
 
redman5 said:
The dangers of playing the long ball against us is that you still have to get men forward to support the forwards, & we'll still hassle the life out of you even in our own half. Lose possession & you run the risk of the counter-attack. Something we're pretty good at.
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Obviously the best football team ever put together. Klopp's tactics just can't be beaten.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Your midfield with Wijnaldum and Henderson is lacklustre. Also as you can see I wrote on paper sub-par defence. See the game against Arsenal as an example.
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We didn't have our strongest defence playing against Arsenal - and our midfield 3 of Lallana, Wijnaldum and Henderson have done pretty well so far against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham.

I admit before the start of the season I didn't think our midfield was good enough, and it's still too early to fully judge but so far I am very happy with our "lacklustre" midfield.
 
I know Mane's added another dimension to our attack but something needs to be said about Lallana. I assumed he'd be benched for most of the season but he's been fantastic so far. I do wonder if we'd had to play against Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal without him whether we would have come away with the same results. Three goals and three assists in six games is a great return and his work rate is incredible.

One thing I will say is that we don't have a player who can score 20-25 goals. We've got plenty of players that can contribute to goal scoring like Coutinho, Firmino and Mane but to challenge for the league I think you need that one player that can get you at least 20 goals. That's why I don't think we'll end up challenging City.
 
redman5 said:
Have you actually seen our fixtures over the Christmas period ? I think you're over-egging the 'pile-up' scenario. From the 17/12/16 to the 02/01/17 we play a grand total of 4 games in 15 days. Hardly a pile-up is it ?

If we fail to make a challenge for a top 4 spot this season it'll be because of loss of form, injuries, etc, & not some sort of mythical burn out.
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Tiredness and fatigue plays a part in loss of form and injuries. You think they magically appear all the time?
 
I think its next season where we will really see if Klopps pressing style has major implications later in the season - IF we qualify for Europe.

Its hard to make a judgement based on last season as it was oct before he came in, our squad was weaker and when we prioritised the EL over the prem the players coming in were quite a major drop off in quality. Next season with (hopefully) a few more good signings we should be better equipped to cope with Europe and the extra demands.

My prediction before this season was 4th-6th and despite our form and what the bookies say I'm not ready yet to think we could better that. Its way too early - although its hard not to get overly optimistic with some of the football we're playing.
 
Klopper76 said:
One thing I will say is that we don't have a player who can score 20-25 goals. We've got plenty of players that can contribute to goal scoring like Coutinho, Firmino and Mane but to challenge for the league I think you need that one player that can get you at least 20 goals.
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Was thinking the same, but we have plenty who hopefully can get into double figures though, Lallana, Mane, Firmino and Coutinho - maybe Milner too if we get more penalties!
Sturridge is hard to say as at the moment probably not first choice.

Overall though I think we will continue to score goals so I am not sure having nobody who can get more than 20 will affect us.
It's important we get goals from midfield though.

I doubt we will challenge City though. Top 4 is a possibility.
 
TheReligion said:
Obviously the best football team ever put together. Klopp's tactics just can't be beaten.
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He has perhaps not seen Dortmund, with far better players than Liverpool, getting undone with that tactic. It's almost like Burnley never happened. Teams which sit back and are half decent defensively will actually show them up quite a lot like Dortmund faced. When you don't have space to exploit behind the defense, I expect them to flounder.
 
NK86 said:
He has perhaps not seen Dortmund, with far better players than Liverpool, getting undone with that tactic. It's almost like Burnley never happened. Teams which sit back and are half decent defensively will actually show them up quite a lot like Dortmund faced. When you don't have space to exploit behind the defense, I expect them to flounder.
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Hull sat deep yesterday.
Most teams try and keep a good defensive shape (in case you hadn't noticed) and aim to be hard to break down.

We lost to Burnley because we gifted them two goals and didn't take our chances.
 
Leftback99 said:
You played well and deserved the wins, you can only beat what's in front of you. I think you'll challenge for the title. I hope we play against the same Arsenal team.
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I will be surprised to see them challenge for the title.
 
Ruffian said:
I don't think Klopp will be attracted by Bayern, Man Utd, Madrid etc. His greatest delight is to create world stars, not to have them ready made. Paraphrasing, The day when a great team can only be created with immense wealth is the day I retire from football. If he wanted a superclub he could have gone to one after Dortmund.
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Implying United don't make stars? We have one of the best young players in the world in our team right now who came through our academy.
 
Cascarino said:
He's a good manager for a team like Liverpool though, as atm the best players aren't going to go there, but Klopp is very good at getting decent and good players to go up a level.

I imagine this suits the owners down to the ground too.
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I get where you are coming from. However of someone like Madrid or Bayern call, I doubt his principals will come in the way.
 
NK86 said:
They were down to 10 very early on ans obviously weren't great defensively after that.
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They were but they were already 1 down and still unable to get out of their own half with 11 men. I am not saying they defended well - but sometimes you have to balance that up with how well the attacking team played.

Tom Van Persie said:
Implying United don't make stars? We have one of the best young players in the world in our team right now who came through our academy.
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You mean Rashford? I agree a terrific talent but "one of the best young players in the world" - that's pushing it a bit right now.
 
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