Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

I like Firmino a lot, finds an easy pass a lot of the time when there doesn't seem to be one. Because the easy pass is very often the right pass, this is a very good ability to have.

Thought Coutinho did this on Saturday & I also think it's quite a new thing for him too. As an alternative to shooting from 30yds especially.
 
montpelier said:
Thought Coutinho did this on Saturday & I also think it's quite a new thing for him too. As an alternative to shooting from 30yds especially.
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He's got 8 assists and 5 goals from 9 games so far in all competitions.

I think his consistent ability and willingness to carry the ball from midfield to the final third has long been under appreciated, but it is true that he has lacked guile and creativity for a good while in the final third in favour of gerrard-esque shooting policy once he got close to the penalty area. Which is weird considering the vision he showed for a pass when he first came here.

It's all coming together for him this season though. Excellent in pretty much all phases of play.

FWIW, it's not just me who thinks he's been one of the outstanding performers in the league so far.
 
Rafateria said:
And Moreno of course ;) Actually i think I'd rate Mane's total performances this season below those of Matip / Milner / Henderson in terms of influence on our performances and results. Milner especially.
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I was mostly just looking at our first XI, so no Moreno. I can't remember the last time we had so few positions that wasn't in need of an upgrade.

It's a shame Milner is not younger. He has the leftback position sewn up.

Moreno is a lost cause though. He plays for himself and only follows the ball. You can't have a defender with that kind of blinders on. He is uncoachable.

As for Mane, I think he has been quickly over rated due to how much he gives to the side simply for being a reliable pacy outlet on the wing. He's been good, but he's more of a cog in the machine than a star player so far. After the Arsenal game, I was expecting more moments of individual quality from him, but so far he's been playing a more subdued and controlled game than I expected. Not the worst thing in the world at this stage I suppose. I'm still hoping he has a few get-out-of-jail cards in him this season though. It's only really Coutinho who can pull a rabbit out of the hat besides him.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
So that's Dortmund and Bayern fans here rooting for Liverpool. Because of your rival teams ex manager ?!
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He's one member, and doesn't represent the entirety of Dortmund and Bayern fans. That being said, as a non-Utd supporter you are less inclined to have beef with Pool per se.
I think there are several factors playing into this issue:

1. Klopp being a german manager
2. Nearly half of Liverpool's squad being former BuLi players. It's easy to relate to them.
3. Liverpool is really nice to watch atm.

This shouldn't be seen as an antagonism towards Utd, though Bastian's treatment didn't earn your club sympathy points among Bayern fans. The outright hostility towards him here, depicting him as a fat lazy parasite feck is somewhat irritating.
 
If Bayern had signed Rooney in return your lot would have been saying the exact same things about a Utd legend.
 
2ndTouch said:
He's one member, and doesn't represent the entirety of Dortmund and Bayern fans. That being said, as a non-Utd supporter you are less inclined to have beef with Pool per se.
I think there are several factors playing into this issue:

1. Klopp being a german manager
2. Nearly half of Liverpool's squad being former BuLi players. It's easy to relate to them.
3. Liverpool is really nice to watch atm.

This shouldn't be seen as an antagonism towards Utd, though Bastian's treatment didn't earn your club sympathy points among Bayern fans. The outright hostility towards him here, depicting him as a fat lazy parasite feck is somewhat irritating.
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It's absolutely bizarre to put it mildly.
 
Said before the season they were being underrated heading into this season and early on that looks about right.

Klopp is a great coach and they have assembled a pretty damn good squad with actually effective footballers that bought into the system.
 
Four of us going on Sunday, looking forward to it and think this also isn't an easy game.

On paper we should win and think we will have most of the ball. They will be looking to counter quick with deeney and inghalo. Also set pieces. Feel like I'm repeating myself in recent games. Counter and set pieces.

I guess a positive is we are getting used to playing this type of team over the last couple of games.

I'm going for a 3-0 with only our second clean sheet of the season.
 
Dumbstar said:
If Bayern had signed Rooney in return your lot would have been saying the exact same things about a Utd legend.
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Have you seen the opinion of Rooney on here? He's out legend and we want him out on his ear.
 
Sterling: "I needed to leave Liverpool to play with the best"

Jurgen-Klopp-Football3651.jpg

F365 said:
Raheem Sterling says he chose to leave Liverpool for Manchester City so he could play with top players and reach his potential.
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http://www.football365.com/news/sterling-i-needed-to-leave-liverpool-to-play-with-the-best
 
SteveJ said:
Sterling: "I needed to leave Liverpool to play with the best"

Jurgen-Klopp-Football3651.jpg


http://www.football365.com/news/sterling-i-needed-to-leave-liverpool-to-play-with-the-best
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I think Sterling would've thrived under Klopp's management but it's hard to argue against what he says. Some of Cities players are better than anyone we have right now and at the point of his departure we were in a mess under Rodgers.

Sterling didn't exactly do much to help during that poor finish to 14/15 though.
 
LFC-Fans said:
Oh yeah. He's really thriving now isn't he? Pshhh feck him.

Watching the hilights from the City Barca game and he was well below average. Absolutely awful.

Sold for £50mil replaces with a much better £36mil Mané. Take that all day long.

I miss him.
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I thought he was ok last night and has clearly thrived under Pep. I can't blame him for moving, we were only going one way under Rodgers and it wasn't up. He'd have been brilliant under Klopp but I've not missed him at all this season because we've got a brilliant attack. It'd be nice to have him while Mane's at the AFCON though
 
Thought he was good last night. All Digne could do was kick & trip him.

You got Mane now anyway.
 
The Sterling story is now a bit meh. He's moved onwards and upwards and so, it seems, have Liverpool.
 
montpelier said:
Thought he was good last night. All Digne could do was kick & trip him.

You got Mane now anyway.
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Aye, he was. Think his game has improved under pep. Shame he left us but there you go. Think he would have improved under Klopp as well though.
 
Schmiznurf said:
Manchester United - Liverpool
Trophies: 64 - 60
Social Media: 75 million - 35 million
2016 Shirt Sales: 2.85 million - 805 thousand
Club Worth: 3.3 billion - 1.5 billion

Like I said, big cub but not massive.
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It will be a sad day when social media followers will be used to compare popularity of football clubs.

Their average shirt sales in the last five years have been around 850k which puts them ahead of teams like Arsenal, PSG, Juve and Milan. This is despite never winning the Premier League or any major trophy in the last ten years. Heck not even competing and without Champions League football for most of those years. That should tell you something.

Their value of $1.5bn puts them in the top 8 clubs in the world just behind Chelsea who have won multiple leagues and the Champions League having featured in every season for the last 10 years bar this one. That should also tell you something.

Also they are on par with us on 41 major trophies and the closest rival is Arsenal with 28.

You cannot say that a team with a long and illustrious history that dominated football in the 70s and 80s is not a massive club. People watching football around the world back then are still alive and remember the Liverpool glory days and I can bet you that not all of them are on social media either.

You can say Liverpool may no longer be as relevant, even though our rivalry still makes them so, but you cannot say they are not a massive club.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
It will be a sad day when social media followers will be used to compare popularity of football clubs.

Their average shirt sales in the last five years have been around 850k which puts them ahead of teams like Arsenal, PSG, Juve and Milan. This is despite never winning the Premier League or any major trophy in the last ten years. Heck not even competing and without Champions League football for most of those years. That should tell you something.

Their value of $1.5bn puts them in the top 8 clubs in the world just behind Chelsea who have won multiple leagues and the Champions League having featured in every season for the last 10 years bar this one. That should also tell you something.

Also they are on par with us on 41 major trophies and the closest rival is Arsenal with 28.

You cannot say that a team with a long and illustrious history that dominated football in the 70s and 80s is not a massive club. People watching football around the world back then are still alive and remember the Liverpool glory days and I can bet you that not all of them are on social media either.

You can say Liverpool may no longer be as relevant, even though our rivalry still makes them so, but you cannot say they are not a massive club.
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Except they're not a massive club, they're a big club no doubt but not massive.
 
Schmiznurf said:
Except they're not a massive club, they're a big club no doubt but not massive.
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They got left behind off the pitch while we were cashing in. They couldn't even organise a new stadium over the last 20 years despite wasting prob £100m on consultancy and planning to build one. Over the years they've had to sell/lost on free transfers McManaman, Owen, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Suarez does anyone doubt Coutinho will be next?

They can't pay the wages or guarantee the success that a massive club can, being historically successful and having passionate fans doesn't cover up that fact.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
It will be a sad day when social media followers will be used to compare popularity of football clubs
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Surely social media followers simply equates to followers? How can it not be "used to compare popularity of football clubs"?

It's nice to think that old school ideals like supporters on seats are the be all and end all but like it or not, in a world where TV money rules and clubs like United make hundreds of millions of pounds a year from obscure sponsorship arrangements, things like social media presence and following are legitimate criteria.
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
They couldn't even organise a new stadium over the last 20 years despite wasting prob £100m on consultancy and planning to build one.
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Considering the entire cost of the Emirates build was £390mil, if Liverpool have spent £100mil on consultancy and planning, someone wants shooting.
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
They got left behind off the pitch while we were cashing in. They couldn't even organise a new stadium over the last 20 years despite wasting prob £100m on consultancy and planning to build one. Over the years they've had to sell/lost on free transfers McManaman, Owen, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Suarez does anyone doubt Coutinho will be next?

They can't pay the wages or guarantee the success that a massive club can, being historically successful and having passionate fans doesn't cover up that fact.
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Their choice of managers has been pretty awful. And they had some shit owners. But their revenue is only $30m leas than Chelseas who have won multiple leagues and Champions League in the past 5 years and $50m off Arsenal who have been regular quarter finalists in the champions league.

Their revenue is way ahead of a lot of European heavyweights and the closest English rival are Spurs with $90m behind.

For a club who hasn't been competitive in the last decade those are pretty good numbers.

We should be worried about them as the new owners seem pretty decent and Klopp seems to have them fightning again.
 
diarm said:
Surely social media followers simply equates to followers? How can it not be "used to compare popularity of football clubs"?

It's nice to think that old school ideals like supporters on seats are the be all and end all but like it or not, in a world where TV money rules and clubs like United make hundreds of millions of pounds a year from obscure sponsorship arrangements, things like social media presence and following are legitimate criteria.
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It might be legitimate criteria sometime in the future when social media has been around for a substantial amount of time. As an example a lot of older people who would have seen Liverpool play in their glory days wouldn't be on social media or wouldn't be looking to follow/like Liverpool on it.

Also until data can be properly analysed it's likely that it will be skewed as some fans might have many different social media accounts and follow their team on all of them so one person could be accounting for 3-4 followers.

Finances are probably the most accurate way of determining "size".
 
Ultimate Grib said:
It might be legitimate criteria sometime in the future when social media has been around for a substantial amount of time. As an example a lot of older people who would have seen Liverpool play in their glory days wouldn't be on social media or wouldn't be looking to follow/like Liverpool on it.

Also until data can be properly analysed it's likely that it will be skewed as some fans might have many different social media accounts and follow their team on all of them so one person could be accounting for 3-4 followers.

Finances are probably the most accurate way of determining "size".
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Finances in our case, are boosted by the fact that companies in Japan and Singapore want to pay us silly money to use our branding on their noodles or tyres. I'd argue that our larger social media following and greater television viewing numbers contribute to making us more attractive in these countries.
 
diarm said:
Considering the entire cost of the Emirates build was £390mil, if Liverpool have spent £100mil on consultancy and planning, someone wants shooting.
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At one stage in the early 00's they said a new stadium would cost £90m . When you consider the loss of revenue in that time it's criminal that they were that badly run by the 1st set of American owners
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
At one stage in the early 00's they said a new stadium would cost £90m . When you consider the loss of revenue in that time it's criminal that they were that badly run by the 1st set of American owners
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Shocking. A new stadium for the price of an injured Fernando Torres and an Andy Carroll.
 
If we had capitalised properly in the 90's we'd be a giant now.

The developed main stand is a big step forward, but we need to go ahead with Anfield Road development. The lack of corporate seats means it won't be anywhere near as financially lucrative, but having a decent stadium is very important. For status, for atmosphere, and allowing our fans to get to the match. It won't cost that much which makes the stalling all the more frustrating.
 
Ruffian said:
If we had capitalised properly in the 90's we'd be a giant now.

The developed main stand is a big step forward, but we need to go ahead with Anfield Road development. The lack of corporate seats means it won't be anywhere near as financially lucrative, but having a decent stadium is very important. For status, for atmosphere, and allowing our fans to get to the match. It won't cost that much which makes the stalling all the more frustrating.
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Thats what we did wrong, while clubs like United started to look into sponorship deals, profit, fanbase, worldwide exposure etc. We sat there thinking "nah, waste of money that, we're Liverpool. Dont need it".

Now we've fallen behind.
 
top1whoisman said:
This'll be important for Pool as Mane is out.

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Yeah, fully participated in practice, even the 5-a-sides and stuff. He'll be back for the United game 100%, I think we might even ease him in for a 20-minute spell against Soton before that.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yeah, fully participated in practice, even the 5-a-sides and stuff. He'll be back for the United game 100%, I think we might even ease him in for a 20-minute spell against Soton before that.
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Any clue yet how Klopp will approach the EFL semi, considering it's a day later than we play and all? Guess we'll find out more when you play on Sunday.
 
top1whoisman said:
Any clue yet how Klopp will approach the EFL semi, considering it's a day later than we play and all? Guess we'll find out more when you play on Sunday.
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I guess Sunday will be a run-out for the kids, i.e. Woodburn, Alexander-Arnold, Stewart, Ejaria, maybe Gomez and Ojo if they're fit(?) and the likes, Lucas and Karius will probably start as well.

Given Klopp's cautious approach with players coming back from injury, I don't think he'll start Milner (Moreno), Matip (Klavan), Henderson (Can), Coutinho (Ejaria) and Sturridge (Origi) against Southampton. It's an away leg so we just need to score a goal and limit the damage if possible, although it would be nice to win 0-3 so we can rest our key players in the second leg. There's a very good chance the final is against United so I hope we take this seriously.
 
RobinLFC said:
I guess Sunday will be a run-out for the kids, i.e. Woodburn, Alexander-Arnold, Stewart, Ejaria, maybe Gomez and Ojo if they're fit(?) and the likes, Lucas and Karius will probably start as well.

Given Klopp's cautious approach with players coming back from injury, I don't think he'll start Milner (Moreno), Matip (Klavan), Henderson (Can), Coutinho (Ejaria) and Sturridge (Origi) against Southampton. It's an away leg so we just need to score a goal and limit the damage if possible, although it would be nice to win 0-3 so we can rest our key players in the second leg. There's a very good chance the final is against United so I hope we take this seriously.
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Yeah it’s a bit of the same for me in terms of United. Of course playing Tue-Sun is no issue, but having two legs and the Pool game being such a huge one, not sure… Then again resting 60% tomorrow and the rest 40% on Tuesday probably gives us a good chance to be competitive in all three fixtures.
 
top1whoisman said:
Yeah it’s a bit of the same for me in terms of United. Of course playing Tue-Sun is no issue, but having two legs and the Pool game being such a huge one, not sure… Then again resting 60% tomorrow and the rest 40% on Tuesday probably gives us a good chance to be competitive in all three fixtures.
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Yeah, although I'd say it's a bit more straightforward for you guys. A day extra rest, but Hull at home is a lot easier than Southampton away imo. If you put out anything close to your strongest team you could be up 3-0 at the half, making the return leg almost useless and you can rest the likes of Ibrahimovic.
 
RobinLFC said:
If you put out anything close to your strongest team you could be up 3-0 at the half, making the return leg almost useless and you can rest the likes of Ibrahimovic.
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Zlatan doesn't rest. Rest needs Zlatan.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yeah, although I'd say it's a bit more straightforward for you guys. A day extra rest, but Hull at home is a lot easier than Southampton away imo. If you put out anything close to your strongest team you could be up 3-0 at the half, making the return leg almost useless and you can rest the likes of Ibrahimovic.
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I think Zlatan can score from the bench or even from the stands :p

In one way having the 1st leg at home is not an advantage. Rest players, play a say 1-1 draw and you've got a challenge in the 2nd leg. If you lose the first leg away 2-1, you're still in a good position to get to the final.
 
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