If you could make your starting 11 from the top 6, would Mane, Coutinho and Lallana be the only Pool players in your team in a Jurgen Klopp system (i.e. Zlatan is a fantastic player but probably doesn't fit Klopp's style for example)
Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If you could make your starting 11 from the top 6, would Mane, Coutinho and Lallana be the only Pool players in your team in a Jurgen Klopp system (i.e. Zlatan is a fantastic player but probably doesn't fit Klopp's style for example)
Playing as a team is an important point. You could argue that Arsenal have better players than we do in Sanchez & Ozil (although the latter is debatable right now), but I think our team plays for each other much moreso than Arsenal do at the moment, which is why I'd personally give us the edge.
Whatever we say about Boberto Firmino, his lady has a magnificent klopper
Think some Liverpool fans are underestimating the effect of Mané being out....
I can see us dropping points in at least one of Palace and West Brom, probably Palace.
I can see us dropping points in at least one of Palace and West Brom, probably Palace.
If we're able to use players from the top 6 then yeah, only Coutinho, Lallana and Mané would get into a Klopp system.
She's not the boss of me.
Teams chasing you will drop more points.
possibly, although Coutinho seems to have found form again for your lot. He struggled there for a while after his return from injury
If we beat West Brom on Sunday I think we'll get top four.
There are some tricky games after that but winning there would be a big boost for the rest of the season.
There are some tricky games after that but winning there would be a big boost for the rest of the season.
Palace have already done their "giant killing" act for this season fam
Yeah...
unfortunately, a Liverpool fixture usually represents a chance for a team playing badly to "turn their season around" or a team who hasn't scored a goal in 2017 to suddenly "score their first goal of 2017".
We change fortunes, for the better or worse.
For worse, when a team is playing great and we're the underdog we usually provide an upset.
We're actually a good team to win money on if you bet right. Just bet on the most unlikely result. It'll usually happen with us
Will be watching this one if poss, hard to see Palace doing 3/3 of the big clubs but should be a good clash of styles. Might be a daft question but is Sakho eligible?
No. Which may be significant as he's been very good. Palace have had a good month so will be tricky, but Liverpool are in decent form and at home.
No, which is the one small comfort I'm banking on; Sakho's been a big part of Palace's improvement so it's an advantage we can hopefully capitalise on.
The one thing? The only thing that's making you confident is that Sakho isn't playing? Not Liverpool's excellent run of form in last 7 games: 5 wins, 2 draws? Not the fact Liverpool are third and Palace are 15th? Not the fact that Palace are yard dogs and Liverpool are the league's most dangerous attacking side?
I think you're neglecting the fact that this is a massive clash of styles and Liverpool have clearly struggled against this specific style all season.
For my money, if Liverpool beat Palace next week, they're in the Top Four. Certainly wouldn't bank on it though.
How about our terrible form in Jan and Feb that left us not just out of the title race but on the brink of CL qualification? That was freaking relegation form. We also don't have Mane, and Lallana is still a doubt.
Ok, the other thing is that we're at home, that's another thing I'm counting on. It's a freaking Allardyce team; between Pullis and Allardyce I have enough bad memories to learn to not be confident.
That specific style? Not really.
Beaten Stoke twice
Beaten West Brom twice
Beaten Watford already
Beaten Palace already
Who else plays with real physicality? I think the only defeat that can be pointed to is Burnley away and that was in August - hardly all season.
I ain't talking about physicality. I'm talking about how Palace will allow Liverpool come on to them, soak it up and hit them on the counter. They also by-pass defensive play. Liverpool HATE playing teams who by pass the defence. They thrive on pressing teams who try to play in their own half. Palace don't do that. I'm sorry, but liking the 2017 Palace team to the 2017 Stoke team is quite strange, this isn't 2010 anymore. They couldn't be more different. Palace is a tricky game for Liverpool...
Why just use the form in Jan and Feb as a reference point? What about the form in Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, March, Apr? You're preoccupying yourself with a season blip and extrapolating that as a reason to be scared of a relatively poor team. Liverpool have just won 6 points away from home against better teams than Palace but who play similar styles.
Liverpool have not been better than us this season at all. But we're Man Utd so more is expected of us and most of our fans are negative spoilt brats.
We are practically neck and neck with Liverpool in the league, yet we have won the League Cup and are in the very deep stages of the Europa...yet our season is deemed a failure in comparison to theirs?
Liverpool are having a great campaign and we are not? Please!
Liverpool had the exact same number of points we have right now with the same games played and were dumped out of each cup early doors. They've had a full week to prepare for every game while we've been parading around Europe...Anyone thinking they have been better than us over the past 7 months is deluded.
We are practically neck and neck with Liverpool in the league, yet we have won the League Cup and are in the very deep stages of the Europa...yet our season is deemed a failure in comparison to theirs?
Liverpool are having a great campaign and we are not? Please!
Liverpool had the exact same number of points we have right now with the same games played and were dumped out of each cup early doors. They've had a full week to prepare for every game while we've been parading around Europe...Anyone thinking they have been better than us over the past 7 months is deluded.
You said Liverpool have struggled all season against sides of a particular style. Meaning teams who soak up pressure. That's not true. Where is your evidence that this has been a season-long concern for Liverpool? I think there have been occasions when Liverpool have faltered but plenty of teams have parked the bus against this Liverpool side and lost - handsomely at times. Where is the season-long body of evidence that this Liverpool side are vulnerable to counter-attacking sides?
As for Stoke, I appreciate that they are no longer-Pulis' yard dogs, but Hughes employs that tactic against Liverpool hence why they changed their shape in both matches this season. Genuinely, look at the way Stoke play Liverpool. Hoof/direct/yard dog.
Liverpool have been good this season. Coutinho is a super player. Sane also. The lack of having the to play in Europe helps Liverpool greatly though. Klopp has all week to focus on train for a fixture. That will change next year. I don't think Liverpool's current squad could have done that, there's too many average players. They'll need to get a few in. I'm sure they willl though.
I concede it's a perception thing, to some extent. The points aren't hugely different. However the perception comes from the following:
United have played often very dull stuff - Liverpool have been scintillating at times
United can't score goals (one player in double figures) - Liverpool are the league's best attack in terms of numbers
United's home form is spectacularly poor, which creates its own narrative
United haven't hit the heights as many times as Liverpool this season
Budgets - United are not where they should be in the league given their spend
Expectations - Klopp came 8th last season, Jose spent millions in the summer
Ultimately it's another trophyless season for Liverpool to add to the saga of mediocrity that the club has become.
With one trophy in the bag, another to play for, and still a chance at crashing the top 4 party, United are well placed to surpass the achievements of LFC over the last 10 years, but in one season. In fact they've already matched it. Perception.
Bit prickly there.
I wasn't criticising United. I was explaining the narrative as to why there's a perception that United are having a poor season. Is there anything in my analysis you disagree with or shall we just spend the next 25 posts engaging in glib back and forth?
I just think it's a completely false perception that Liverpool are having a good campaign.
You could easily flip every point on its head. Liverpool have been tumescent for months, played themselves out of contention for all silverware, and are often defeated in embarrassing fashion by average sides. United are unbeaten in 22 league games and one of the best away sides in the league. Created the most chances in the league (but don't finish well). We could go on.
It's all perception but ultimately it boils down to tangible success (trophies), and United, in a single transitional year, are well placed to surpass anything LFC have done in a decade.
Ha ha...I think that's a little bit of disillusion there mate.
But you're right, it's "perception". It's pundits' obsession with United not doing anything but winning a title.
PS: I don't think Liverpool play 'scintilating' stuff at all. I think high press is a very boring approach to football. Waiting on the opposition to make a mistake is quite yawn inducing to me...but then again, it's all subjective. I think United approach games quite positively, but will admit a lot of their games have been tough watching, but that's mainly down to the opposition. Also, I don't know how you can say "United haven't hit the heights as many times as Liverpool this season" given the fact that United have won a lot more matches than Liverpool this season.
And as somebody else has said, United have already achieved just as much this season as Liverpool have in the last 10-years.
Again, I think you're missing my intention. I'm not saying who has had the better season. I'm explaining why there may be a prevailing narrative that United are having a poor season. I'm explaining why United have been criticised so much. I'm rationalising the perception.
Yeah, you're right.
And I'm teasing out the bullshit hiding within your perceptions.
I'm focusing on the level of performance. In the autumn Liverpool were playing great attacking football, hitting 3s, 4s and 5s regularly. It was widely believed to be entertaining - is call it scintillating.
United may have won more games, but they haven't played really well and buried teams enough. It's been a bit dull on the whole - the draws. Yesterday was the first time I've seen United really play extremely well and win a big game - maybe Spurs at home but it wasn't as good a performance as yesterday. Liverpool, to be fair, have done that loads this season. A lot more stand out wins than United.
Great.
So, can you explain why there's a prevailing sense that United's season has been disappointing? Or are you just here to attack?
While I agree on your overall analysis of the narratives of each sides respective seasons, I think you're doing United quite the disservice by calling us "boring". IIRC we're second in chances created in the league and with an average of expected goals going in we would be toe-to-toe with Spurs and Chelsea, not you - all the while winning the league cup and competing for the Europa League.
The run of home games last autumn which went something like four draws in a row was ridiculous. We scored 1 goal a game but we absolutely hammered teams, obliterated them. It wasn't boring by any means, as much as poor finishing.
Fair enough. I guess boring is harsh - but clearly not enough goal scorers is a problem.
Liverpool also had the advantage of being not in Europe(which is due to the genius of Klopp) and also being crap in the domestic competitions, which actually helped them with their attacking play in September and October. It took one month of 9 matches to show Klopp's inability to create a decent squad. Leicester and Chelsea in the past two seasons have shown that how having no European football is such a big boon to the clubs, Liverpool have utterly failed in that regard.
That's our biggest problem by far IMO.
If half our home draws, in which we've been dominant for most of them, were being converted into wins.. Well, you do the math.
You're using 9 matches to judge a 16 year career? It's like using Jose's last three months at Chelsea to gauge whether he's any good, isn't it?
That's a two and a bit month spell from 6 months ago.
I can't believe Liverpool fans are still dining out on this.
This thread is about Liverpool, what he did with Mains and Dortmund doesn't hold any significance here. I'm talking in context of Liverpool's squad. That should've been obvious to anyone.