It made it harder to win and it something Liverpool bottled constantly when they had the chance.
Liverpool
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It made it harder to win and it something Liverpool bottled constantly when they had the chance.
Exactly. Ferguson himself said that you needed a large degree of luck to win 3 trophies in a season. You had in it 1999. We didn't in 1977.
Paisley never won the treble. The biggest achievement for an English club which no other manager has ever matched. Fergie is the greatest.
Also Fergies achievements at Aberdeen are pretty dam impressive.
That's ironic seeing as you were slating United fans that consider it unlucky that we met Barca in two CL finals a while back.
I agree you do need some luck - after all slip ups can happen at anytime.
Just quoting your manager. We won 3 trophies in 1984 & 2001, & luck played a major part in both seasons.
Nothing to be ashamed of.
If the format was the same as it used to be, we would have a much greater chance to win it 13 times we would have been in the competition. We would have had 13 chances with only 4 or 5 quality teams in the draw with us (Champions of Spain, Italy, Germany, maybe count Portugal, Netherlands,France depending on the year). We would have most likely still won 2 (probably more), whereas you would have never won your 5th.
you dont know very much
Why are we even debating this?
For neutrals there is no question.
For neutrals there is no question.
With the exception of 2 or 3 seasons, United had always gotten through the group stages of the CL. It was then - in the knockout stages - that the CL pretty much reverted back to the old European Cup format. 2 games played over 2 legs, one at home, & one away. It was then that United generally fell short. How can you possibly argue that the competition was stronger, when we competed against a country's champions, whereas you could have faced a side that finished 3rd or 4th the previous season ?
If the CL is so difficult to win, how did we do it in 2005, & nearly win it again 2 years later ?
Oh really? sorry, carry on with your contradictory dribble.
Liverpool took beatings as well.
Nobody could expect Aberdeen to compete with Liverpool. Liverpool spent a fortune and Aberdeen had no money. Fergies teams at Aberdeen usually had 7-8 home grown players. Liverpool had 1-2 at most. To actually get that far with Aberdeen was a huge achievement.
@redman5
I have read a couple of books on Liverpool, so I do know a decent amount about Shankley and Paisley. I might have laughed as much as any poster on here about what happened this season but have always admired & been fascinated by the Liverpool sides of the 70s and 80s and why/what made them so good.
But whichever way you try and paint it, it's impossible to ignore that the current CL format is much tougher to win than the old European format for any English side. 3 European Cups is an exceptional achievement but I still personally rate Shankley at least as good as Paisley, even though Shankley never won the EC. Paisley may well have been better tactically than both. But obviously there's so much more to management than tactics. Plus the big one Liverppool fans always try to dance around, longevity. Mourinho said it himself, Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest because getting to the top is the easy part, staying there is another thing entirely, it's the hardest thing to do. And no one has done that for longer than Ferguson, who spanned all the different era's, upto the current one which is more competitive, globalised and money-driven than at anytime in the history of the sport.
It surely ranks as Ferguson's biggest skill & ultimately what puts him top of the pile. The ability to adapt and remain successful in any era. He did so through the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s.
I have read a couple of books on Liverpool, so I do know a decent amount about Shankley and Paisley. I might have laughed as much as any poster on here about what happened this season but have always admired & been fascinated by the Liverpool sides of the 70s and 80s and why/what made them so good.
But whichever way you try and paint it, it's impossible to ignore that the current CL format is much tougher to win than the old European format for any English side. 3 European Cups is an exceptional achievement but I still personally rate Shankley at least as good as Paisley, even though Shankley never won the EC. Paisley may well have been better tactically than both. But obviously there's so much more to management than tactics. Plus the big one Liverppool fans always try to dance around, longevity. Mourinho said it himself, Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest because getting to the top is the easy part, staying there is another thing entirely, it's the hardest thing to do. And no one has done that for longer than Ferguson, who spanned all the different era's, upto the current one which is more competitive, globalised and money-driven than at anytime in the history of the sport.
It surely ranks as Ferguson's biggest skill & ultimately what puts him top of the pile. The ability to adapt and remain successful in any era. He did so through the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s.
Jesus Christ. You've dropped a bollock here mate! Can you honestly not see why?
The question is how many managers are between Ferguson and Paisley?
Top 5 people?
Top 5 people?
Totally ignoring the fact that 3 of the 4 S/F teams this year in the CL didnt even win their domestic league the year before. Two of them finished 3rd.
Because Liverpool could still perform to a very good standard on their day despite the fact that they weren't one of the top 2 sides in England. Which is precisely my point.
How could you possibly argue that having to square up against Juve, AC, Barcelona, Real, Munich, Chelsea, Arsenal in the quarters for example is easier than facing the champions of 7 of the leagues. Absurd.
And no, it didnt revert back to the old European Cup format… We had 2 Spanish sides, 2 Italian sides, 2 German sides, and an English side in the quarters with us (for example). Whereas in the old format you would have a Russian side, a Serbian side, a French side etc etc who, despite being champions of their league, would have been weaker than the second or even third (being generous by not saying 4th) placed team in the big European leagues.
I'm not convinced that any logical person could genuinely believe this format isn't much harder to win. Easier to get into, much harder to win.
As well as the fact that it takes its toll on a teams league season.. Imagine winning the league so many times while also having to play many more games in Europe than teams did in the days of the European Cup.
Second serve.
He's wumming us. Using the 2005 victory was the giveaway.
But I can't help but get sucked in:
There's the fact that a cup competition by it's very nature involves a lot more luck compared to a league. The best team doesn't always win it.
Then on top of that, the higher number of quality teams in a cup drastically reduces a sides chances of winning it. This is what happened to the old EC when they expanded it.
The CL is basically the UEFA cup and EC combined. Paisley won both in their old format but never the equivolent of both combined. History shows that no one has retained this new version. Teams that finished 1st last year can regress (Utd this season) while teams who finished 2nd, 3rd or as low as 7th can improve...
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So, what sort of budget will the dippers have this summer? It seems like the few resident scousers on here are confident that Liverpool can compete for top players. I don't see how they can compete on wages but would be interested to see how they fair this summer
0. It's between them and Michels and the best of all time.
Yup....thats me. Straight to the point and factualThanks for your detailed response
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/19/world-cup-marketing-the-sun
Yesterday's news, but still, it's absolutely ridiculous.
This is only covering L postcodes, correct? If that's the case, then our friends in the Wirral and the like will be in for a very unpleasant surprise.
Yesterday's news, but still, it's absolutely ridiculous.
This is only covering L postcodes, correct? If that's the case, then our friends in the Wirral and the like will be in for a very unpleasant surprise.
Redman thinks the current Liverpool team is better than the Utd team of 92. His opinions aren't to be debated, they're for pointing and laughing at.
Okay. Let's ignore the fact that no team has defended the CL successfully till now.
Random Liverpool question here - Why did Coutinho come off the bench during the run in? Was he not fit? Is he not first choice?
He seems to be very good but I am hearing the Lallana rumours. Is there room for both with Allen, Lucas and Gerrard around?
Seems they need fullbacks and CBs now more than anything.
He seems to be very good but I am hearing the Lallana rumours. Is there room for both with Allen, Lucas and Gerrard around?
Seems they need fullbacks and CBs now more than anything.
Coutinho from what i have seen is ridiculously talented but i have never seen a player more forceful in trying to play the killer pass than him, he also goes missing in the big matches and can be bullied out of game by physical teams.
So is Lanna > than Coutinho? I didn't see much of Lanna this season.