Individually I think we've got a great group of players. On paper I think we have a better squad.
Liverpool's squad now even with United's?
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The squads have no meaning in this when it's clear as daylight Klopp is the reason they have started to become better and better. This man went to the CL final with players like Andrew Robertson, Trent Alexander Arnold, Dejan Lovren James Milner and Jordan Henderson, all bang average players that became better due to his management. They smashed Saint Peps City 5-1 on aggregate and in the final they were giving it to Madrid hard and it looked like they were about to score any minute before Salah went off. Speaking of Salah another average player that suddenly became world class under Klopp. In the end they didn't win feck all, thank god for that, but they are playing the exact same football that most of us Man Utd fans want to see.
I don't know how they will do this season I hope for a season like Klopps final one in dortmund where they collapsed but I can't imagine that will happen as they have adressed a number of areas in the team that they had problems in over the years and with the front 3 of Salah Mane and Firmino I can sadly only see them get better. I think City will win the title again quite comfortably but imo we did a big mistake not hiring that yellow teethed prick, I believe he would fit our club perfectly but it's up to Mourinho now to show what he has got, I know he is pissed about not getting his players but our squad overall is not that bad, if he can't compete and we keep seeing this miserable type of football being played over and over then he needs to be shown the door.
I don't know how they will do this season I hope for a season like Klopps final one in dortmund where they collapsed but I can't imagine that will happen as they have adressed a number of areas in the team that they had problems in over the years and with the front 3 of Salah Mane and Firmino I can sadly only see them get better. I think City will win the title again quite comfortably but imo we did a big mistake not hiring that yellow teethed prick, I believe he would fit our club perfectly but it's up to Mourinho now to show what he has got, I know he is pissed about not getting his players but our squad overall is not that bad, if he can't compete and we keep seeing this miserable type of football being played over and over then he needs to be shown the door.
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Your squad is better in terms of class/skill/experience, but you can't seem to put it into use. Pogba is a great example. You judge him and set ratings based on his Juventus performances, obviously. Because since he came in he's not been even near to top midfielders like Silva, Eriksen or de Bruyne. Same thing with Sanchez so far.
You also seem to base your comparisons on a suggestion that Sanchez will not only reach his Arsenal level, but do it on a different flank.
I'm also rather confused why there's a lot of noise in the transfer threads about how your FBs and defence are poor, but in this thread they are all better than what we have.
My take on combined XI:
DDG
TAA/Valencia-Baily-VvD-Robertson
Matic
Pogba-Keita
Salah-Firmino/Lukaku-Mane/Sanchez
So, pretty even. We just utilize our players better, there is a positive vibe around the club. One more thing I feel is important is that our squad is young, most of the key players are at their peak years or approaching them.
Also I really believe we have a decent squad, maybe even better than yours. If now I'm to assemble our backup XI you might notice those are players that were heavily involved in our consecutive top4 finishes and a few cup finals.
You need a proper RW, young fullbacks and a new manager.
You also seem to base your comparisons on a suggestion that Sanchez will not only reach his Arsenal level, but do it on a different flank.
I'm also rather confused why there's a lot of noise in the transfer threads about how your FBs and defence are poor, but in this thread they are all better than what we have.
My take on combined XI:
DDG
TAA/Valencia-Baily-VvD-Robertson
Matic
Pogba-Keita
Salah-Firmino/Lukaku-Mane/Sanchez
So, pretty even. We just utilize our players better, there is a positive vibe around the club. One more thing I feel is important is that our squad is young, most of the key players are at their peak years or approaching them.
Also I really believe we have a decent squad, maybe even better than yours. If now I'm to assemble our backup XI you might notice those are players that were heavily involved in our consecutive top4 finishes and a few cup finals.
You need a proper RW, young fullbacks and a new manager.
Saying Sanchez is better than Mane, I would definitely debate. Mane scored 20 odd goals last season, and Sanchez playing in this UTD team is different than Sanchez for Barca. He scored 11 goals last season and is now 30, and looks past his peak to me.
You say overall options at CB are better, but Van Dijk is a class outfit and Lovren has just played in a World Cup final, a few weeks after playing in a Champions League final.
Liverpool’s defence, alongside City’s was the best in the league from Van Dijk signing day onwards.
As a defensive unit, UTD’s midfield is stronger, and has been built that way, but offensively Fred has minimal career goals, with most of that time playing in the Weak Ukrainian league, and Matic offers close to nothing going forward, and Pogba turns up occasionally, when he feels like it, rather than consistently.
Up top, people may prefer Lukaku rather than Firmino, and that’s fair enough, but in the Liverpool team, I’d have Firmino all day long. His 30 goals last season also helped of course. His goal return has increased significantly year on year.
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IMO it is better.
If United finish above Liverpool I would consider it a good effort on United's behalf and a failure on Liverpool's.
If United finish above Liverpool I would consider it a good effort on United's behalf and a failure on Liverpool's.
Yeah, that's hysterics.
Clearly someone has no idea how bookmaking works. I think you better do a bit of research.
Anyway, stop digressing. I think you realise how inane your comment was - that their starting XI is "way better" than ours - and you're trying to move the conversation out of it's original context.
Yeah, that's hysterics.
Clearly someone has no idea how bookmaking works. I think you better do a bit of research.
Anyway, stop digressing. I think you realise how inane your comment was - that their starting XI is "way better" than ours - and you're trying to move the conversation out of it's original context.
I'm not doing anything, stop constantly trying to put words in my mouth because for some reason your ego's constantly bruised on a football forum. I think Liverpool will finish above us, because they have the 'way better' team. That's all I've said. If you don't agree with that fine, we'll see as the season plays out. If you have nothing else to add I'd appreciate you stopping the random bits of ad hominem and let this convo end.
How ? Valencia has been right up there with the best in the league over the last couple of years and Young is playing for England. Dont see how they are better.
Based on league / CL form. Young was decent enough last season, but I'd rather have Robertson. He can carry the ball forward, he was like a lite version of Evra last season. Young's got a better delivery and dead ball but he doesn't open up or stretch play as well as Robertson does.
Valencia was once better, but he didn't really do much last season. Decent defensively but seldom ever contributed in attack. TAA is a bit of the opposite, a little suspect in defence but plays some great passes and crosses when he gets forward.
Imo ours defenitely are better in defence, but in attack it's no contest. Personally I think all the top teams nowadays need attacking fullbacks which is why I prefer Liverpools pair to ours.
Squads are now very similar in terms of quality. I think we edge the starting 11 when everyone is fit. But the most important thing is that it feels like we have an identity and play cohesively as a team whereas Utd are a collection of individuals who sometimes spark but, more often than not, performances look laboured.
My ego is bruised?
Where do you get this from? I literally can't connect this insult to the conversation at hand. It has nothing to do with me, and all to do with you and your apparent HPD.Words in your mouth? Let's review shall we?
You said, and I quote, "Liverpools starting XI was much better than ours." Hence the beginning of this conversation because, frankly, it's hypobolic nonsense. Much like most of your posts here.
After being called out on it you said Liverpool finishing above us in the league will all be down the their starting XI. You later retracted, admitting tactics, management, approach etc. play a part. Who would've thought?
You then swiftly move the conversation on to who will finish higher in the league, citing league odds as some kind of definitive evidence of who has the better team, and in the process showing you are completely ignorant of bookmaking mechanics. You're constantly driving the conversation away from the starting XI.
You seem to be the only one in this thread that believes this, but that doesn't seem odd to you. Feel free to have the last word, I won't bother replying again.
My ego is bruised?
Words in your mouth? Let's review shall we?
You said, and I quote, "Liverpools starting XI was much better than ours." Hence the beginning of this conversation because, frankly, it's hypobolic nonsense. Much like most of your posts here.
After being called out on it you said Liverpool finishing above us in the league will all be down the their starting XI. You later retracted, admitting tactics, management, approach etc. play a part. Who would've thought?
You then swiftly move the conversation on to who will finish higher in the league, citing league odds as some kind of definitive evidence of who has the better team, and in the process showing you are completely ignorant of bookmaking mechanics. You're constantly driving the conversation away from the starting XI.
Bye bye now. I look forward to reading your next tantrum.
I say your ego's bruised because you've quoted in me like three threads now for an opinion that's not that different to what other people are saying.
I said their first XI is 'much better', and then literally gave you a player by player breakdown as to why I think that. What more is there to say to defend my position? I never once said league position was all down to the team - it's pretty obvious it's not.
The reason we had any more conversation at all, rather than being at attempt at deflection as you seem to think (deflection of what? I've given you my reasoning already..) is because you're the kind of person that has to have the last word every single time. Go back and read every single reply you've made to me barring your first - you always end on an insult. It's the exact same reason I stopped replying to you in the Fred thread a couple of days ago because I knew the conversation would be frivolous and so stopped replying, and yet you've followed me into this thread with nothing but sneering once again.
It's annoying frankly. And stop acting all superior as though you know more than you do. You're calling me ignorant of bookmaking mechanics - then go on, explain to me why exactly Liverpool have better odds in the PL than we do? You don't think it's because oddmakers think that Liverpool will finish higher than us in the league, a large part of that due to them having the better team? You think odd makers industry wide - people paid well to set odds - are setting themselves up for hundreds of millions in losses for a laugh? See the funny thing is, part of my living is trading and investment and a part of that is risk management, something that's easily extrapolated to betting which I've done occasionally. And yet you're branding about the 'you're ignorant go do some research' line. Christ.
Weird Liverpool obsession on here. Weird thread. Weird.
De Gea is better than Alisson.
Van Dijk is the best centerback out of the bunch, closely followed by Bailly. Jones, Smalling, Lovren and Matip are all roughly at the same level. They look great sometimes and mediocre other times. Valencia is still better than Arnold, but Robertson is better than Young.
Fabinho is at the same level as Matic. Keita is great but Pogba is better. Fred is better than Wijnaldum.
Liverpool have one of the best front three in the world. United’s front three is arguably as good on paper but doesn’t perform anywhere near as well on the pitch.
Overall:
United have a better GK and midfield
Defence is about equal
Liverpool have a better attack
Van Dijk is the best centerback out of the bunch, closely followed by Bailly. Jones, Smalling, Lovren and Matip are all roughly at the same level. They look great sometimes and mediocre other times. Valencia is still better than Arnold, but Robertson is better than Young.
Fabinho is at the same level as Matic. Keita is great but Pogba is better. Fred is better than Wijnaldum.
Liverpool have one of the best front three in the world. United’s front three is arguably as good on paper but doesn’t perform anywhere near as well on the pitch.
Overall:
United have a better GK and midfield
Defence is about equal
Liverpool have a better attack
My thoughts exactly.
Utd fans want attacking football and goals. I don‘t think there was this kind of opinion about Liverpool in 2014, but many Utd fans on here would want Klopp as the manager, that is the difference.
I think Van Djik will get found out defensively this season. Him, Klavan, Lovren will make a lot of mistakes. I actually rate Matip the most out of that bunch, but I'm sure he'll make some too. But i also rate Smalling more than our other options so maybe i am weird. I think we have a pretty decent advantage still in defence. Midfield the same applies there, we have experience and top level talent while they have Henderson and 2 fullbacks playing midfield in Milner and Fabinho. They haven't got a real striker neither, but a lot of creativity and goals with Mané and Salah.
DDG = Allison
Robertson = Young
VVD > Bailly
Lovren > Smalling/Jones
Klavan > Lindelof/Rojo
Valencia > TAA
Keita > Pogba
Henderson > Fred
Fabinho > Matic (age)
Salah > Martial/Lingard
Lukaku > Firminho
Mane > Sanchez.
It's their year.
Robertson = Young
VVD > Bailly
Lovren > Smalling/Jones
Klavan > Lindelof/Rojo
Valencia > TAA
Keita > Pogba
Henderson > Fred
Fabinho > Matic (age)
Salah > Martial/Lingard
Lukaku > Firminho
Mane > Sanchez.
It's their year.
Liverpool is far ahead of united at the moment. Liverpool's board, manager and players are on the same wavelength, and pulling in the same direction. I won't say the same for Utd. Tension seems build up among the board, manager and players in MU. It is a team game after all.
The squads are much of a muchness. The football Liverpool play - coached through Klopp - is on another level. They attack... or something like that.
That's Mourinho's fault.
That's Mourinho's fault.
Some of this is already posted earlier.
Individually our players are better than pool. Whether they can perform to their level on the field, we will have to wait for the match to start.
But, but football is a team sport. Even the mighty Messi/Ronaldo cannot win the world cup on his own. Pool have a manager that can motivate them and play as a team. Jose is a manager that prioritize wining above everything, we can play dirty, ugly, unentertaining, whatever as long as we get the 3 points. Both manager have their strong point and weaknesses.
Who will come up on top will depend on how they perform on match day and over the season.
Individually our players are better than pool. Whether they can perform to their level on the field, we will have to wait for the match to start.
But, but football is a team sport. Even the mighty Messi/Ronaldo cannot win the world cup on his own. Pool have a manager that can motivate them and play as a team. Jose is a manager that prioritize wining above everything, we can play dirty, ugly, unentertaining, whatever as long as we get the 3 points. Both manager have their strong point and weaknesses.
Who will come up on top will depend on how they perform on match day and over the season.
Last season there were practically no one to come off the bench for Pool, but surprisingly Shaq and Sturris were the best players in pre-season. Shaq looked really really sharp and Sanchez like. He was better than Salah IMO. Shaq will be good and caf will be frustrated that why didn't you go for him. He have looked EXCATLY what you need. A crosser/passer to Lukaku. Salah looked ok but not phenomenal like last season. Still very good. Mane will IMO do better than Salah this season. He has looked tricky, pacy and constant danger man. He is more wasteful than Mo but more creative.
United has better defenders at actual defending but offer significantly less going forward. Matic is nothing special. A workhorse like Hendo. If swapped to Liverpool system he would be totally outrun. Kante would be the best there is for Liverpool's system. Not a great passer but pure speed and ball winner. Keita has shown some qualities like that + he can pass forward. Pobga showed ball winning in WC and we all know he can pass it very well.
On the long run United's style is a safer bet for winning titles but at the moment it's too defensive and not adventurous enough going forward. France won the WC by playing quite safe and most boring football of the big boys. They defended very deep BUT when they got forward they had the licence to commit all their attackers and midfield minus Kante. United didn't have that license nor capability. If Jose wants to make his brand of ball work he really needs a good rw badly and to give licence to attack and dominate for spells of the game. United's defence is not strong enough to endure 90 mins of being under siege when the attacks are so feeble that they don't provide respite and a sense of danger to the oppo.
If United sorts out the balance in this they are a serious threat. If they continue like last season they will struggle even more.
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They have upgraded considerably. Its subjective whether or not their squad is better than our. What gives them an advantage is the system. They are greater than the sum while we're still learning addition.
Shaqiri will play like a wing back under Mou. He will just be the next Valencia.
We were in no way primed to build on a good season inin 2010 and 2015.
If their new goalkeeper is not Karius or Mingolet they will have closed the gap already.
Hyperbole of course but seriously that was one of their major weaknesses the last two seasons and of course Lovren, just kidding their squad depth also was a bit of a problem imo, even though Klopp barely rotates his squad I felt it was noticeable when they had someone of the first team out with an injury.
Hyperbole of course but seriously that was one of their major weaknesses the last two seasons and of course Lovren, just kidding their squad depth also was a bit of a problem imo, even though Klopp barely rotates his squad I felt it was noticeable when they had someone of the first team out with an injury.
Allison, coupled with VVD, is a massive exponential improvement.
The rest is really just a lot of sideways movement. We lost our best player in Coutinho and replaced him with Klopp's dream midfielder in Keita. We lost Can and replaced him with Fabinho. We lost Chamberlain for the season and have replaced him with Shaqiri.
This would all have looked a lot better if we had actually signed Fekir.
The rest is really just a lot of sideways movement. We lost our best player in Coutinho and replaced him with Klopp's dream midfielder in Keita. We lost Can and replaced him with Fabinho. We lost Chamberlain for the season and have replaced him with Shaqiri.
This would all have looked a lot better if we had actually signed Fekir.
How are so many people on here claiming kieta is better than pogba.
The only department we can match Liverpool in now is midfield and that hangs on the commitment of Pogba.
Odd. I'd say DDG, Pogba, Fred and Matic are all better than our counterparts and that Robertson, TAA and Firmino are all better than your counterparts (no one cares about backup centrebacks, but yours are better either way). Might be that Keita proves me wrong over the season.
Still so grateful this didn't happen!
As for Keita, he'll be a contender for best CM in the league once he's adjusted. I watched a lot of Leipzig because I was a fan of their previous manager (Hasenhuttl) and Keita always stood out to be a level above. Looked incredible at times. I don't have him down as a Pogba type, though - more a Herrera/Kanté. Better on the ball than both, though.
I wonder if Klopp would get massacre by the media if we manage to finish ahead of them and they are 19 points behind city given that they are now dubbed the only challengers to city's crown.
Nope, Liverpool are very strong this season on paper. If Liverpool does not finish at least second with the amount of money they spent, then some heads have to roll. Heck, even finishing second is not good enough I reckon and if that happens Klopp should admit he is nowhere near the quality of Pep and put a loser sign on his forehead.
The truth is, Mourinho has not really been harrangued that much by the media for his league finish. It's the fans that are burying him most of all.
cool story, bro.
Are they? We finished above them, which means either our squad is considerably better or our system is not as bad as people think.
But he is being harangued by the media for finishing 19 points behind city, forgetting that all other teams finished at least 20 points behind city.
But what is past is past. Now that we have a new improved Liverpool, where on paper is heads and shoulders above united, there should be no excuse for Liverpool to finish 19 points behind city...
... or is there?
2003 and 2010 they had completely different players and management. Not 100% sure on the 2015 squad but I think the mentality of the current Liverpool squad is a lot stronger than the other squads, specially with klop at the helm.
I truly expect them to finish above us and the main reason being who is in charge of each club, not player for player as I'd still prefer more than half of our players over theirs - although not many on here would argue they wouldn't fancy salah / firminho / keita / van dijk in our squad