Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread

[Adebesi]

If this season has proven anything so far, it's that the approach of "only" settling for the worlds best players is a method that carries tons of risk.

Is that our strategy? Did we sign even one player last summer who could be described as one of the world's best players? Schweinsteiger was once one of the world's best players, I guess. Does that count though? Is our strategy to buy aging former stars?

Not knocking our signings, I think most of them are useful players that will develop into very good players in time. I only quoted this because in another thread someone just said Woodward is bent on signing Galacticos, which seems like a similar kind of remark. I dont see it. Just because we have become more active in the transfer market, I dont see that we have started buying at the very top end of the market.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Has anyone discussed the madness that was leaving an injured Chris Smalling on the field, thus risking further injury to our most important player?

'Cos that was feckin' dumb.

 

[Question234]

Is that our strategy? Did we sign even one player last summer who could be described as one of the world's best players? Schweinsteiger was once one of the world's best players, I guess. Does that count though? Is our strategy to buy aging former stars?

Not knocking our signings, I think most of them are useful players that will develop into very good players in time. I only quoted this because in another thread someone just said Woodward is bent on signing Galacticos, which seems like a similar kind of remark. I dont see it. Just because we have become more active in the transfer market, I dont see that we have started buying at the very top end of the market.

That's exactly my point.

We went in with the approach of "get the best or don't bother at all" i.e ramos, and 1 of neymar/muller/bale. But of course the best players can't always be lured away so we were sort of left empty handed.

The approach of only brining in WC signings isn't feasible strategy for this utd, we have the money but couldn't make any of the big clubs budge.

 

[Cheesy]

Has anyone discussed the madness that was leaving an injured Chris Smalling on the field, thus risking further injury to our most important player?

'Cos that was feckin' dumb.

We seemed to play him up front for a brief time which was even more ridiculous.

 

[Adebesi]

That's exactly my point.

We went in with the approach of "get the best or don't bother at all" i.e ramos, and 1 of neymar/muller/bale. But of course the best players can't always be lured away so we were sort of left empty handed.

The approach of only brining in WC signings isn't feasible strategy for this utd, we have the money but couldn't make any of the big clubs budge.

But we didnt do that really, did we? We signed Schneiderlin, who is not the best midfielder in the world by any means. And Schweinsteiger, who is a bit past it (but still good). Darmian who is a useful right back, but I dont think we have to worry about Real Madrid calling just yet. Memphis who is no Bale, Martial who is no Muller. We did make compromises in who we signed. Good players, but we didnt "get the best or not bother at all", we got the best we could from what was available.

I guess there were two options. Only buy the very best players, but then clear out the deadwood slower, slow the whole process down and improve gradually.
Or clear out the deadwood quickly, but then buy the best players that are available, regardless of whether they are best in class. In which case your expenditure will be high, progress may well still end up being slow and improvements incremental.

Either way, rebuilding a squad in 18 months and expecting to be as good as Barca isnt going to work. Who knew?

 

[ZDwyr]

Has anyone discussed the madness that was leaving an injured Chris Smalling on the field, thus risking further injury to our most important player?

'Cos that was feckin' dumb.

Just shows how desperate he is/was.

 

[Cina]

But we didnt do that really, did we? We signed Schneiderlin, who is not the best midfielder in the world by any means. And Schweinsteiger, who is a bit past it (but still good). Darmian who is a useful right back, but I dont think we have to worry about Real Madrid calling just yet. Memphis who is no Bale, Martial who is no Muller. We did make compromises in who we signed. Good players, but we didnt "get the best or not bother at all", we got the best we could from what was available.

I guess there were two options. Only buy the very best players, but then clear out the deadwood slower, slow the whole process down and improve gradually.
Or clear out the deadwood quickly, but then buy the best players that are available, regardless of whether they are best in class. In which case your expenditure will be high, progress may well still end up being slow and improvements incremental.

Either way, rebuilding a squad in 18 months and expecting to be as good as Barca isnt going to work. Who knew?

When you rebuild you're generally supposed to ... build, make progress, improve, etc.

I mean, I guess we've improved a little, as in, we're not getting trumped 5-3 by Leicester and we were knocked out of the league cup by a slightly less shite team this time, but in 18 months you absolutely expect more and we actually look like a worse side now than we did early in the season. Add to that, LvG seems to be doing his usual thing of talking bollocks and losing the plot.

 

[Question234]

But we didnt do that really, did we? We signed Schneiderlin, who is not the best midfielder in the world by any means. And Schweinsteiger, who is a bit past it (but still good). Darmian who is a useful right back, but I dont think we have to worry about Real Madrid calling just yet. Memphis who is no Bale, Martial who is no Muller. We did make compromises in who we signed. Good players, but we didnt "get the best or not bother at all", we got the best we could from what was available.

I guess there were two options. Only buy the very best players, but then clear out the deadwood slower, slow the whole process down and improve gradually.
Or clear out the deadwood quickly, but then buy the best players that are available, regardless of whether they are best in class. In which case your expenditure will be high, progress may well still end up being slow and improvements incremental.

Either way, rebuilding a squad in 18 months and expecting to be as good as Barca isnt going to work. Who knew?

A stupid claim that I have never once made. Was never going to be easy. We were in the market for world class players to replace some of the dead wood. Of course we made other signings but we know the club tried to sign both ramos and 1 of muller/neymar. It was decided that we needed quality in those positions but because we could not get the best we decided to work with what we have/prmote youth and that has backfired.

His league form is meh for me, i know we are in transition so results are all I care about, but not qualifying that group is really poor. No ifs or buts. Wolfsburg are a very solid side but allowing the qualification to depend on beating them away from home means we don't deserve it anyway. Expected LVG to be alot better in europe and it hasn't been the case, we were naive throughout the entire tournament.

now 3 out of our starting back 4 are injured. schnedierlin is injured and schewinsteger might be suspended. We are in a pickle here, he has to take some responsibility.

The second half of that psv game jesus

 

[Adebesi]

A stupid claim that I have never once made. Was never going to be easy. We were in the market for world class players to replace some of the dead wood. Of course we made other signings but we know the club tried to sign both ramos and 1 of muller/neymar. It was decided that we needed quality in those positions but because we could not get the best we decided to work with what we have/prmote youth and that has backfired.

His league form is meh for me, i know we are in transition so results are all I care about, but not qualifying that group is really poor. No ifs or buts. Wolfsburg are a very solid side but allowing the qualification to depend on beating them away from home means we don't deserve it anyway. Expected LVG to be alot better in europe and it hasn't been the case, we were naive throughout the entire tournament.

now 3 out of our starting back 4 are injured. schnedierlin is injured and schewinsteger might be suspended. We are in a pickle here, he has to take some responsibility.

The second half of that psv game jesus

Oh yes sorry I didnt mean to imply you had suggested that, it was a tongue in cheek remark aimed at people generally saying or hinting that when you spend £250m (or whatever it is) we should clearly be much better than this, the point being that depends on what you started off with, for one thing, and also you may well end up looking pretty damn good eventually, but it may take time.

Im slightly stuck in the mantra of defending Van Gaal for the slowness of our progress because I think the upheaval in the squad made that almost inevitable. The fairer criticism right now, for me, is maybe we did too much too soon, if we had taken a more gradual approach maybe we would look a bit more coherent right now.

I guess you are right about the attackers and defenders. What I am saying is that maybe, until we had the strikers we wanted in the bag, maybe we should have kept Chicharito around. Or Januzaj. Or both. We'd have more options, a bit more experience. It might have helped and couldnt have hurt, really. OK Chicharito may not have liked it but tough on him, basically. Its a harder case to make with defense. Keeping Evans was probably not going to help much. I think, contrary to what I have said above, a strong case could be made for buying a new defender because of the injury problems we have had with the ones we have for many years now.

 

[drdoityourself]

I voted between 3 and 4, I still believe he'll turn out good even though some major mistakes have been made during his reign.
I don't blame him for trimming the squad, the only thing I question is the loaning of Januzaj with no replacement other than the unspectacular Lingard.
One of the main reason I feel we struggled in Europe during the end of Fergie's era due to the bloated squad, constant rotation to keep everyone happy with no settled first eleven. Our teams were set up to match the opponent, not the other way around. That led to team that could endure the toughest of schedules but doing so sacrificing reaching the highest echelons of European football. Also the abundance of squad players meant that there was little opportunity for youngsters getting a sniff.
I feel van Gaal's plan has more potential, it can help us become a European powerhouse again. Settled first eleven, a game plan that is true to itself and we can only get better at.
But he seriously overestimated the quality of our front four. The modern game is so heavily reliant on pace and power but we went with a past it Rooney, slow and weak Mata on the wing and inexperienced Memphis, Lingard and Martial. Lingard should be squad player at best, Memphis needs more time but Martial is more than ready. So there are at least 2, if not 3 of the front four that need replacing, and with more pace, power and hunger in those positions (and an attacking right back) I feel the sky is the limit for this club.

 

[Catt]

Can see him walking at the end of the season.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Strange thing to say and something we have laughed at Arsenal for years. Aiming and finishing into the top 4 every year and promptly fecking off early from the tournament once we get these. What's the sense in that?

What the club need right now is stability, i can't expect this squad to win the title yet.

 

[K2K]

That's exactly my point.

We went in with the approach of "get the best or don't bother at all" i.e ramos, and 1 of neymar/muller/bale. But of course the best players can't always be lured away so we were sort of left empty handed.

The approach of only brining in WC signings isn't feasible strategy for this utd, we have the money but couldn't make any of the big clubs budge.

It isnt feasible for any club.

Even Real Madrid of all people missed out on both of their top targets ( Veratti and Ddg). With Veratti, they were told to get lost by Psg and turned elsewhere (signed Kovacic instead)

 

[Question234]

It isnt feasible for any club.

Even Real Madrid of all people missed out on both of their top targets ( Veratti and Ddg). With Veratti, they were told to get lost by Psg and turned elsewhere (signed Kovacic instead)

Good point tbf

But Madrid and Bayern can still play that game better than us, while barca are just fed class from la decima, they can just use that thing like a roulette machine that will always pay out ffs.

 

[Maradona10]

I think he everyone know about barney, he got Team news in some cases even a day earlier and gave it away on twitter. I think mata does not look like a player who would let it rip, but i think yesterday he was playing very well and should not have been taken off. If LVG looses players confidence, the end is nigh for him.
I would love it if he could turn it around, we are just 3 points of leicster, i want to see him end his career well. I am a person who always wants a happy ending, i hope its happy for louis. He has been a great asset to the game, i hope football gods make sure he goes out on a high and with his dignity in tact.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

If Mata dislikes you, there's not much hope.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If Mata dislikes you, there's not much hope.

Dead right. Juan loves everybody.

 

[IBleedRed]

If LvG cant win the league this year and we can get Pep or Carlo then it will be time to show him the door.

 

[K2K]

I think he everyone know about barney, he got Team news in some cases even a day earlier and gave it away on twitter. I think mata does not look like a player who would let it rip, but i think yesterday he was playing very well and should not have been taken off. If LVG looses players confidence, the end is nigh for him.
I would love it if he could turn it around, we are just 3 points of leicster, i want to see him end his career well. I am a person who always wants a happy ending, i hope its happy for louis. He has been a great asset to the game, i hope football gods make sure he goes out on a high and with his dignity in tact.

Then choose your massage parlours more wisely then

 

[The Law of Denis]

If Mata dislikes you, there's not much hope.

To be fair, he has been the victim of the worst substitution since Jose Pekermen switched Riquelme for Julio Cruz.

 

[arthurka]

I've been thinking about this.. What bothers me the most is his handling of our former players like Nani, Evra and Chicharito and others.. Just thrown out without proper cover. It's biting us in the ass bigtime. But the biggest grudge I hold against him is that he has failed most of the big tests thrown at him.

We had one shot last year to win a trophy and played Arsenal at OT and lost he blamed Di Maria for that.

This season we have had chance after chance to stake our claim in the league and have not taken any of those, City H, Leicester A, West Ham H, and more.

And finally this tragedy that this seasons CL has been. Bad results home and away. He had a huge opportunity to turn the negativity aura that has been hanging over the club for a good while with two games. PSV at home and when that failed VfL away. That he flunked in style and blamed it on the refs!

He can go now I don't see what he can do that he hasn't already shown.

 

[Jazz]

Where did you see that picture? Care to share?

Was on the Daily Mail website last night - haven't checked to see if it's still there. It was pretty aggressive from the guy pointing and shouting at him. I know fans are fecked off but he's 64 years old. Don't care about anyone else, but I'm personally uncomfortable with that. If fans are angry don't go to the matches and make your point to the board that way. But this is not the way to behave towards an old man.

Edit - just seen someone posted above.

 

[DLE]

Going to be a long long season if his pre-season meddling is anything to go by.

It would be great if we could edit our vote in that poll. Then we could see how the fans are slowly but surely shifting to 1) Sack him now.

 

[acnumber9]

Was on the Daily Mail website last night - haven't checked to see if it's still there. It was pretty aggressive from the guy pointing and shouting at him. I know fans are fecked off but he's 64 years old. Don't care about anyone else, but I'm personally uncomfortable with that. If fans are angry don't go to the matches and make your point to the board that way. But this is not the way to behave towards an old man.

Edit - just seen someone posted above.

If he's fit to be in the job then he's fit to take what goes with it. His age is irrelevant.

 

[Triple.Threat]

i'm beginning to lose my respect towards him, he seems to be blaming everyone bar himself for our trouble. Is it true he went on to blame Schweinsteiger last night?

 

[Sam]

I think he everyone know about barney, he got Team news in some cases even a day earlier and gave it away on twitter. I think mata does not look like a player who would let it rip, but i think yesterday he was playing very well and should not have been taken off. If LVG looses players confidence, the end is nigh for him.
I would love it if he could turn it around, we are just 3 points of leicster, i want to see him end his career well. I am a person who always wants a happy ending, i hope its happy for louis. He has been a great asset to the game, i hope football gods make sure he goes out on a high and with his dignity in tact.

LVG has been subbing him all season, and he's looked pissed off every single time.

I still reckon he was the one that made the 'half the player I can be' comment a couple of weeks back.

 

[Jazz]

If he's fit to be in the job then he's fit to take what goes with it. His age is irrelevant.

What kind of comment is this? Abusing an old man is ok with you...? Don't bother answering actually.

 

[Will Absolute]

Was on the Daily Mail website last night - haven't checked to see if it's still there. It was pretty aggressive from the guy pointing and shouting at him. I know fans are fecked off but he's 64 years old. Don't care about anyone else, but I'm personally uncomfortable with that. If fans are angry don't go to the matches and make your point to the board that way. But this is not the way to behave towards an old man.

Edit - just seen someone posted above.

Very distasteful, I agree. I suppose football fandom is a broad church and there's bound to be a few morons. Whatever their age, no one trying to do the best they can in a difficult job should be subjected to that kind of treatment.

Fans can (and should) express their disapproval of how things are going without behaving like wild animals.

 

[acnumber9]

What kind of comment is this? Abusing an old man is ok with you...? Don't bother answering actually.

He's a physically fit man. Nobody's actually physically attacking him. The melodrama is a bit sickly.

 

[Devil may care]

LVG has been subbing him all season, and he's looked pissed off every single time.

I still reckon he was the one that made the 'half the player I can be' comment a couple of weeks back.

Yeah he's the most likely I think.

 

[Shamwow]

[QUOTE="Maradona10, post: 18493076] we are just 3 points of leicster[/QUOTE]

This is not comment on your actual poin but it's bloody weird seeing that sentence and considering it a positive. Leicester... lol.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Surely he now realises there's a difference between how the fans react to a loss to MK Dons in the league cup while playing a bunch of kids in the first few months of his tenure to going out at the group stage in a relatively easy group after serving up tumescent football the whole season round in your second season after you've had the luxury of building the squad the way you see fit.

He's only got himself to blame. Special captain privileges, selling most of our strikers and attacking players, relying on a washed up has been and a 19 and 21 year olds in their first season at the club for goals, leaving the squad thin, loaning Januzaj out and finding yourself having to name Nick Powell in the match day squad of the most important game of the season, continually playing Juan Mata on the right and subbing him out, subbing Mata out for Powell, playing Blind in defense etc etc.

I want him to do well, and hope we recover in the league, but I fear he's too stubborn to change.

 

[redzeppelin]

We won't be able to finish top 4 with him. Not sur why keeping him is more important than providing entertaining football to the fans.

 

[RedFish]

We won't be able to finish top 4 with him. Not sur why keeping him is more important than providing entertaining football to the fans.

I suppose it boils down to whether in the long run (next season basically) you believe he can get us challenging for the PL title and CL. Some, clearly want him gone no matter what simply because we seem to play the worst football in the league supposedly.

 

[Adisa]

Quite a quite a few papers saying he will be sacked if we don't win the tile. Club have made it clear that just finishing top 4 isn't enough.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Quite a quite a few papers saying he will be sacked if we don't win the tile. Club have made it clear that just finishing top 4 isn't enough.

And that is the correct decision IMO. I think that is the only way he can salvage things. The league is there for the taking I will say that, although I doubt we will actually win it.

 

[Question234]

We won't be able to finish top 4 with him. Not sur why keeping him is more important than providing entertaining football to the fans.

isn't that what you said last year ?

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Good point tbf

But Madrid and Bayern can still play that game better than us, while barca are just fed class from la decima, they can just use that thing like a roulette machine that will always pay out ffs.

Even Barca buys players who can't play for half a season like Suarez and Arda, because they know chances to buy a world class player are few, and you have to take them as they come. It's not about the money you can spend, it's about beeing the first in line on those few occasions a world class player is for sale.

 

[Bastian]

Has anyone discussed the madness that was leaving an injured Chris Smalling on the field, thus risking further injury to our most important player?

'Cos that was feckin' dumb.

We seemed to play him up front for a brief time which was even more ridiculous.

I didn't think it was that mad. Not as mad as throwing on youngsters who won't get a regular game for United in Louis' most important game for the club so far. Or playing with Fellaini when Carrick was on the bench. Psychologically it would have given Wolfsburg even more incentive to see us down to 10. Smalling was playing at maybe 10% after the injury, and that's why he was thrown up front, one more player for them to worry about. Think it would have been more stupid to take him off. It's not like he was running or throwing himself into challenges at that point.

What I find extremely disturbing is that once we got that 2-2 equalizer none of the players picked the ball from the net to try to go for the win. We needed a win to guarantee progression. But they all just celebrated the own goal and ran back to defend some more. I think it says it all really. And Keane is right that we lack leaders. We have for years.

 

[Garethw]

His tenure has been a disaster. Half of his players will probably be deemed unsuitable/not good enough by the next manager and be sold at a fraction of the price we paid.

We'll then have to spend another obscene amount of money over a good few transfer windows to get us back competing on all fronts again.

All this talk of him "laying foundations" is bollocks as well. As stated above, this squad will be ripped to shreds once he fecks off and the new manager is going to be starting from scratch again.

Even Moyes would have got us top 4 with an open cheque book two summer transfer windows running.