Luckhurst: United prepared to move for a holding midfielder in January

K Stand Knut said:
The issue isn’t about people being happy or not happy about our signings.

The issue I have is with people saying we’ve spent x amount so aren’t going to splash out on a midfielder.

I will accept that there might need to be outgoings before we get any more players in but there SHOULD easily be another £40-50m available for a better midfielder, IMO.

Bissouma or Rice, for example. With the right structure of a deal or even with an outright buy!
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Why should there easily be another 50m? We aren't made of money and covid has had an impact.

Yes, ideally we would sell Lingard, Van de Beek, Matic, Pereira, Dalot and whoever else and bring in Trippier and someone like Bissouma or Rice. But we can't control that Atletico wants 40m for Trippier or West Ham want 100m for Rice. We can't control that nobody wanted Pereira as more than a loan. That West Ham didn't want to meet the asking price for Lingard. Not entirely unreasonable that we're giving Van de Beek another chance instead of instantly selling him at a huge loss.

I swear people think football transfers work like Football Manager and you can just bully any club and money makes no difference?
 
#07 said:
No but a mid-table club somewhere in Europe might if they didn't have to try and match £100k a week wages, nevermind a transfer fee.

The likes of Liverpool don't give players like Rhian Brewster anything close to what Andreas Pereira and Brandon Williams are on. So they're more gettable targets for a middle of the road team. Its different to cough up £10/20m for a player if you're only having to pay them £15k a week. Nobody is going to buy our deadwood players and then give them £150k a week. That's why we end up giving away players like Alexis, Rojo and there will be others.

Our wage structure is bizarre and it stops us selling players. When I see the journalists writing up briefings about 'protecting value' I can only think they mean in pure accountancy terms e.g. a new long contract has a high book value. Cos I don't see any value in renewing deals like we do, for the players we do, on the money we do it. Its literally throwing good money after bad.
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Agreed.
 
Flytan said:
You can't look at just what United does. You have to look at what you're competitors are doing. So yes, only signing a Winger and CB (as good as they are) when Chelsea and City are buying players of equal quality in more quantity makes us Arsenal.
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Equal quality in your opinion, not in my opinion. Varane and Sancho get into just about any team in the world (Sancho not in PSG, but that's about it). We addressed 2 massive gaps with perfect signings. City ignored all their gaps and spent 100m on a player that doesn't fit their style or improve their starting 11. Ronaldo would address their issue, but let's wait and see if it happens, and regardless, Pep has 2 seasons left after which they'll inevitably decline anyway. Helps having the best coach in the world with unlimited spending generally.

Chelsea strengthened with Lukaku, but Saul or Kounde don't really make any difference from a starting 11 point of view anyway for them and neither would make a big difference in our starting 11 anyway.
 
bosnian_red said:
If I could've picked 1 player, it would've been Sancho. He's a massive signing for us and will be fantastic. He's literally a dream player to complete our attack and addressed arguably our biggest need, given we had no creative wide player and nobody natural on the right.
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I'm very happy he's here and rate him highly. I think Sancho is a player we shouldn't miss out on but if this was a signing we could have done next season allowing us to get a DM this summer then I would have preferred that. I just think a DM is more priority than RW. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong though
 
bosnian_red said:
Why should there easily be another 50m? We aren't made of money and covid has had an impact.

Yes, ideally we would sell Lingard, Van de Beek, Matic, Pereira, Dalot and whoever else and bring in Trippier and someone like Bissouma or Rice. But we can't control that Atletico wants 40m for Trippier or West Ham want 100m for Rice. We can't control that nobody wanted Pereira as more than a loan. That West Ham didn't want to meet the asking price for Lingard. Not entirely unreasonable that we're giving Van de Beek another chance instead of instantly selling him at a huge loss.

I swear people think football transfers work like Football Manager and you can just bully any club and money makes no difference?
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We are the most financially stable club in world football and could play forever with no fans in the ground without it affecting our revenues too much.

And, everything that happens at our club is our fault. Far too many contracts handed out to retain some sort of value. We could name, and maybe even agree on, at least 5 players who might fetch at least £15m each IF their wages weren’t obscenely high. If we could sell them all, that’s £75m. Throw at West Ham and take Rice.

The wages these players are on are what put clubs off because the players then expect the same wage wherever they go and that is unsustainable for clubs lower down the pyramid.

Or go and pay £40m for Bissouma.

Structure the deal like the Sancho deal.
 
Surely the board can't be dumb enough to think we can end the window without signing any midfielder after how City and Chelsea have strengthened and McTominay getting surgery? Can they? Do we have any hope of getting a mid?
 
bosnian_red said:
Let's not rewrite history here. He's one of our greatest ever players and was still fantastic in his last season. And he was fantastic in 06/07 too. Young and improving with big moments in first 3 years, one of the best in the world in his last 3.
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06-07 & 07-08 were his 2 truly great years here. He half arsed it big time in his final season.
 
bosnian_red said:
Why should there easily be another 50m? We aren't made of money and covid has had an impact.

Yes, ideally we would sell Lingard, Van de Beek, Matic, Pereira, Dalot and whoever else and bring in Trippier and someone like Bissouma or Rice. But we can't control that Atletico wants 40m for Trippier or West Ham want 100m for Rice. We can't control that nobody wanted Pereira as more than a loan. That West Ham didn't want to meet the asking price for Lingard. Not entirely unreasonable that we're giving Van de Beek another chance instead of instantly selling him at a huge loss.

I swear people think football transfers work like Football Manager and you can just bully any club and money makes no difference?
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But is it cast in stone that it absolutely must be Rice or no one? Looks to me like Ole would rather wait another season, provides him a handy excuse if he doesn't win, for his supposed number one target even if he isn't the best or presents the most valuable option for us. I think Bissouma would have been available if we bid something in the range of £40m and he is a useful player to have as an alternate to one of Fred or McTominay.

I think Ole has become too comfortable and feels like he can waste another season of progression whilst waiting for his favourite, a favourite the club won't afford anyway if we go for Haaland so does it mean we wait for Rice for two seasons? And clubs like City will wait for us whilst we do this one player per window rebuild at a snail's pace?

We need players out and the reason why they are still here is entirely on us-
1. Whoever is the idiot negotiating Lingard's sale and
2. Ole for holding on to James when he had suitors who were willing to spend money on him.
It's moronic for the club to say we couldn't sell players to get a DM in and then persist with a semi retired Matic for a season when we had clubs genuinely interested in Lingard and James and just couldnt lower our valuation or held on to a player clearly out of his depth at the level we are operating at or aspire to reach. Failing to sign a DM because we held on to James and Lingard would be idiotic to say the least.
 
K Stand Knut said:
We are the most financially stable club in world football and could play forever with no fans in the ground without it affecting our revenues too much.

And, everything that happens at our club is our fault. Far too many contracts handed out to retain some sort of value. We could name, and maybe even agree on, at least 5 players who might fetch at least £15m each IF their wages weren’t obscenely high. If we could sell them all, that’s £75m. Throw at West Ham and take Rice.

The wages these players are on are what put clubs off because the players then expect the same wage wherever they go and that is unsustainable for clubs lower down the pyramid.

Or go and pay £40m for Bissouma.

Structure the deal like the Sancho deal.
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Problem with the bolded is that because we are as you say the most financially stable club in the world we cannot get that deal. If we call Brighton the price will be 80M and they will want it all up front, just look at the deal to bring Maguire from Leicester. The PL is a cash cow and none of those clubs need to sell to balance the books, you need to look overseas to find leverage like that and of course Brexit has made it far harder to do that.
 
bosnian_red said:
Sure. But it's also OK to be happy and grateful with what we did and not always look at what others do. We have had a very good window. Whatever City/Chelsea/PSG do doesn't change that.
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I think it depends on what you are expecting this season. Early days, but I don't think we can compete with City or Chelsea for the league title. If we want to win something, a midfield starter would help a lot.

If we are happy to write off yet another season as just for transition, then yes, we have a good team. Next season, Pogba is leaving, Cavani would be too old and we need to buy a midfielder. That's not happening.
 
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Gandalf said:
Problem with the bolded is that because we are as you say the most financially stable club in the world we cannot get that deal. If we call Brighton the price will be 80M and they will want it all up front, just look at the deal to bring Maguire from Leicester. The PL is a cash cow and none of those clubs need to sell to balance the books, you need to look overseas to find leverage like that and of course Brexit has made it far harder to do that.
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I’m not sure that that is all entirely true but I see your point.
 
K Stand Knut said:
I’m not sure that that is all entirely true but I see your point.
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I think Neves might be doable. It was reported that in that case we had agreed the outline of a deal with Wolves and it was really only a matter of whether we wanted to take the plunge which is where the dependent on outgoing sales part comes in. A figure of 35m was being quoted, I do think we should be able to stretch to that even if we have to wait til January to sell anyone. Hopefully the rumors from this morning that Jesse to West Ham is likely turn out to be true.
 
Fortitude said:
So you're not expecting a title challenge, then?
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Unlikely unless things fall our way. If Ronaldo goes to City, then it's hard to see anyone beating them out, a mix of Pep and Ronaldo. It's funny as I think we'll have improved massively but as of now would put us at 4th favourites. More likely a cup win though and we really need one.

It gets to a point where the difference between the top clubs is less about player personnel and more about the coaching, and I think we're pretty much there. Ole has done great and I don't want him gone or anything, but I also think City/Liverpool/Chelsea have 3 fantastic coaches, the 2 best of the past decade and Tuchel being a very good tactician showing his impact instantly too, while Ole is merely "decent", but not necessarily providing a huge plus on his own but not dragging us down either. We need a "plus" coach if we want to win the title IMO. Yes we need to revamp our midfield group, but it can't be done in one window regardless. Next summer is the next step, where the dream window is Haaland and getting a new midfield 2 after Pogba leaves in all likelihood (and probably VdB as well).

We have a young squad, we'll be up there, and it's continually progressing really well. Just because oil rich teams are able to spend 100m on a squad player and add on Ronaldo, or can add Ramos/Messi/Hakimi/Donnarumma/Wijnaldum in one summer, doesn't mean we now have to risk our future just to keep up with them. We do what we can. Realistically, Sancho and Varane is doing what we can.
 
LoneStar said:
I think it depends on what you are expecting this season. Early days, but I don't think we can compete with City or Chelsea for the league title. If we want to win something, a midfield starter would help a lot.

If we are happy to write off yet another season as just for transition, then yes, we have a good team. Next season, Pogba is leaving, Cavani would be too old and we need to buy a midfielder. That's not happening.
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If we dont do well this season we can kiss our chances of signing Haaland goodbye.
Not getting that CM/CDM has serious implications
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah ideally last summer we would've signed a holding midfielder instead of Van de Beek and Amad, but no point crying over previous years. What we did this summer, is good and I have 0 complaints about it.
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What I meant is we could have kept that money back for this summer and bought one
 
ravi2 said:
I know Ole sees this but I doubt it bothers the Glazers too much. As long as they can withdraw dividends then they have no problem.
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Yeah they are only bothered about shirt sellers and nothing else
 
Our Midfield must have a solid player now, it's not like there isn't anyone available.
 
LoneStar said:
I think it depends on what you are expecting this season. Early days, but I don't think we can compete with City or Chelsea for the league title. If we want to win something, a midfield starter would help a lot.

If we are happy to write off yet another season as just for transition, then yes, we have a good team. Next season, Pogba is leaving, Cavani would be too old and we need to buy a midfielder. That's not happening.
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Our squad may never be complete at this rate if we postpone getting a DM this summer. Next season if Pogba leaves it means we would now need a DM and CM. Cavani would be off too so we would need a striker. Been a long time we signed three starters in one summer.

Personally I think though you can say our squad is still missing a DM, I think since we started this rebuild with Ole we have spent enough money to have a complete squad by now.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Fair enough on both counts. I guess my point is Fred and Scott play ahead of Donny on merit
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Well yeah they do, partly because Donny hasn't been given a (seemingly) fair run yet. Obviously we don't know the behind-the-scenes - he might not be performing in training to warrant a selection, he might not be gelling well with the team or he might not understand or fit the tactic. Until he's played a bit more I think it's unfair to judge him properly yet.
 
bosnian_red said:
Unlikely unless things fall our way. If Ronaldo goes to City, then it's hard to see anyone beating them out, a mix of Pep and Ronaldo. It's funny as I think we'll have improved massively but as of now would put us at 4th favourites. More likely a cup win though and we really need one.

It gets to a point where the difference between the top clubs is less about player personnel and more about the coaching, and I think we're pretty much there. Ole has done great and I don't want him gone or anything, but I also think City/Liverpool/Chelsea have 3 fantastic coaches, the 2 best of the past decade and Tuchel being a very good tactician showing his impact instantly too, while Ole is merely "decent", but not necessarily providing a huge plus on his own but not dragging us down either. We need a "plus" coach if we want to win the title IMO. Yes we need to revamp our midfield group, but it can't be done in one window regardless. Next summer is the next step, where the dream window is Haaland and getting a new midfield 2 after Pogba leaves in all likelihood (and probably VdB as well).

We have a young squad, we'll be up there, and it's continually progressing really well. Just because oil rich teams are able to spend 100m on a squad player and add on Ronaldo, or can add Ramos/Messi/Hakimi/Donnarumma/Wijnaldum in one summer, doesn't mean we now have to risk our future just to keep up with them. We do what we can. Realistically, Sancho and Varane is doing what we can.
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If Ronaldo goes to City that'll boil a tonne of piss. If he doesn't they may go in for Haaland and if they get him that will also boil a tonne of piss.

Back to the topic. Now that Scott is out I think a DM/CM is a must! That Saul loan looking really f-ing good now tbh...
 
Resch said:
Sesko scored


Sesko scored a beauty yesterday and assisted the second goal. He will become one of the best strikers in the world.
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I love how he plays. This is the striker we should move for since we have Cavani for one more year. still very young and not famous yet. I don't think we can get Haaland with the rumored wage demands. Sesko plays similar to Haaland I think.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I'm very happy he's here and rate him highly. I think Sancho is a player we shouldn't miss out on but if this was a signing we could have done next season allowing us to get a DM this summer then I would have preferred that. I just think a DM is more priority than RW. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong though
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We literally bought Sancho with last years money. There’s no reason whatsoever the money isn’t there for a midfielder other than Glazernomics.
 
ravi2 said:
If we dont do well this season we can kiss our chances of signing Haaland goodbye.
Not getting that CM/CDM has serious implications
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jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Our squad may never be complete at this rate if we postpone getting a DM this summer. Next season if Pogba leaves it means we would now need a DM and CM. Cavani would be off too so we would need a striker. Been a long time we signed three starters in one summer.

Personally I think though you can say our squad is still missing a DM, I think since we started this rebuild with Ole we have spent enough money to have a complete squad by now.
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Yup I agree with both of you. My point was that this whole transition thing is overrated. We need to win things now, like most big clubs aspire to do. Not at some point in the future.

We should try hard to get a DM and win things this season. If we do that, it would help with getting Haaland, and might even convince Pogba that we are here to win major trophies.
 
bosnian_red said:
Unlikely unless things fall our way. If Ronaldo goes to City, then it's hard to see anyone beating them out, a mix of Pep and Ronaldo. It's funny as I think we'll have improved massively but as of now would put us at 4th favourites. More likely a cup win though and we really need one.

It gets to a point where the difference between the top clubs is less about player personnel and more about the coaching, and I think we're pretty much there. Ole has done great and I don't want him gone or anything, but I also think City/Liverpool/Chelsea have 3 fantastic coaches, the 2 best of the past decade and Tuchel being a very good tactician showing his impact instantly too, while Ole is merely "decent", but not necessarily providing a huge plus on his own but not dragging us down either. We need a "plus" coach if we want to win the title IMO. Yes we need to revamp our midfield group, but it can't be done in one window regardless. Next summer is the next step, where the dream window is Haaland and getting a new midfield 2 after Pogba leaves in all likelihood (and probably VdB as well).

We have a young squad, we'll be up there, and it's continually progressing really well. Just because oil rich teams are able to spend 100m on a squad player and add on Ronaldo, or can add Ramos/Messi/Hakimi/Donnarumma/Wijnaldum in one summer, doesn't mean we now have to risk our future just to keep up with them. We do what we can. Realistically, Sancho and Varane is doing what we can.
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I think your view is fair, but the worry of looping in perpetuity has to be there as servicing one area of the pitch then leaves others thin unless we get a breakout wave of graduates supplementing us in those weak areas.

By this, as an example, say we genuinely put together a package for Haaland, but at the same time lose Pogba; with our outlay per window, the pursuit of a replacement anywhere near Pogba has to be rolled over to the next summer, if not farther, in the meantime, our other players of quality may have their head turned or become disillusioned with the inert state of gaining to lose, or losing to gain (whichever way is still a loop that's practically inescapable), which is a frustrating state to be in, particularly for a fanbase.

What's stuck in the craw for a lot of people is this was a window in which we made ground on City and were ahead of Chelsea, seemingly, only for our work earlier in the window to be top-trumped with us now appearing not to address a serious flaw in our 1st team, whilst those around us are still, even now, strengthening further. So not only have we not closed the gap, we've not even remained equidistant to last season and have instead seen the gap widen.

In terms of organic growth, I can see where you're coming from, but the picture painted in this most inorganic of times is that we're not going to challenge for the title barring a miracle class of unders coming through at the same time, or waiting for Pep to leave or both oil clubs slipping and needing to rebuild at the same time (see Leicester's fortune); I personally feel this is our best chance to give it a go, should we get a proper midfielder in before the window shuts, as next summer so many headaches in the first team will be in need of address.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
We’re not signing any more players, are we?
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Nope and I doubt we ever were. It's still been a good window for us but dampened by the fact we never got a much needed midfielder and obviously by being completely overshadowed with Chelsea and City's window
 
Don't think we'll do any further signings. After all signings are done and dusted for all the other teams we'll be left with an underwhelming squad and manager compared to the other teams.

As good as Sancho and Varane are, not signing a midfielder will make us too weak to make any significant challenges. Will probably end up 4th or 5th.
 
We need a new plan to compete cause we clearly don't have a good one. Chelsea and City have top class managers and money to burn

Liverpool got a top class managers and absolute geniuses on the board who work wonders in the market with making their money stretch.

We got an Ok manager, an incompetent board and an ability to never finish a rebuild. Sometimes you just go to bite the bullet if you want a shot at the big boy trophies.

Where is our Tom Brady?

All the Glazers aim to do is stop the protesets. That's their goal for the season.
 
laughtersassassin said:
We need a new plan to compete cause we clearly don't have a good one. Chelsea and City have top class managers and money to burn

Liverpool got a top class managers and absolute geniuses on the board who work wonders in the market with making their money stretch.

We got an Ok manager, an incompetent board and an ability to never finish a rebuild. Sometimes you just go to bite the bullet if you want a shot at the big boy trophies.

Where is our Tom Brady?

All the Glazers aim to do is stop the protesets. That's their goal for the season.
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Always has been.
 
Coops73 said:
Always has been.
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I know but every year the club pretends we got ambitions and well we clearly don't.

Like every year we go into seasons with massive holes in our starting 11.

Liverpool don't do that, City don't, Chelsea don't.

Liverpool are proof it's not even all about money either. A bit of good planning goes a long way.
 
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There's going to be a ton of activity over the next few days. The dominoes are falling now. United will sell what we need to sell and we'll sign a midfielder. My prediction is the lad from Monaco
 
laughtersassassin said:
I know but every year the club pretends we got ambitions and well we clearly don't.

Like every year we go into seasons with massive holes in our starting 11.

Liverpool don't do that, City don't, Chelsea don't.

Liverpool are proud it's not even all about money either. A bit of good planning goes a long way.
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Yep, rinse and repeat, it’s almost boring to talk about it but wait for the we’ve spent X amount apologists to chime in.
 
Strats said:
Don't think we'll do any further signings. After all signings are done and dusted for all the other teams we'll be left with an underwhelming squad and manager compared to the other teams.

As good as Sancho and Varane are, not signing a midfielder will make us too weak to make any significant challenges. Will probably end up 4th or 5th.
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I can't see anyone breaking into the top four ahead of us, City, Chelsea and Liverpool.

It's also hard to see us finishing much if any higher than 4th though if that's the extent of our business this summer.
 
sullydnl said:
I can't see anyone breaking into the top four ahead of us, City, Chelsea and Liverpool.

It's also hard to see us finishing much if any higher than 4th though if that's the extent of our business this summer.
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Jesus lad, it's not that bad, for Christ sake. I want us to improve midfield, but we will be challenging this year even if we don't.
 
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