Like you and Carrick then
Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances
- Thread starter Kelvin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
Like you and Carrick then
Of course they're not biased. I don't think you're even using the word properly. They just have different expectations from a central midfielder and don't fully appreciate what he brings to the team.
Besides, Carrick's been getting absolutely unanimous praise for his league performances this season. No dissenting voices at all. That's because he's been consistently excellent.
If Nani hadn't had a longish dip in form over autumn no doubt he'd be getting unanimous praise too. The simple fact is, he HAS been inconsistent this season. As has more or less every player in our squad. For some reason comments mentioning the "i" word about Nani causes knee-jerk vehement condemnation from a small cohort of caftards. As evidenced by the last couple of pages of this thread.
Someone turned Pogue's tolerance-for-criticism-of-United players dial WAY up today 
He's more talented than any of them and if he has another few of years at this level will be considered better than them, by me at any rate.
He's more talented than any of them and if he has another few of years at this level will be considered better than them, by me at any rate.
It shouldn't be, it's clearly not bias, that doesn't make sense, but we do have our favourites, more so than others at any rate, and everyone is guilty of that to an extent, which can lead to these issues.
Easily, although I did love Overmars. Nani will be one of the rare talents we have had at the club, similar to Ronaldo but not as freakish, if he puts his time in, and I feel more confident of that than I did about Ronaldo, or Wayne etc. He seems to have his head in a far better place.
Yes. Agreed.
The truth is usually in the middle of the most extreme criticism/praise.
Ergo, Nani has been better than "decent" but falls short of the consistently excellent performer he's often portrayed as.
Someone turned Pogue's tolerance-for-criticism-of-United players dial WAY up today
He's more talented than any of them and if he has another few of years at this level will be considered better than them, by me at any rate.
More talented than. More effective than?
Not consistently, yet, no...but you gave a list of the best PL wingers of our generation
I don't think I've ever heard a positive comment about his head before, good on you
I don't think I've ever heard a positive comment about his head before, good on you
Well, he's still been one of our more consistent and better performers, clearly. It's not that Pogue, but a constant under-rating of his ability and consistency, especially, when he isn't in peak terminator form. We've seen it in these threads over the past years too, and I imagine it helps feed the other side too.
Thanks, it's really reducing his overal praise, having a head that actually just looks like a high-top.
Robben as well. For that year or so at Chelsea, he was a class winger.
Anyway, just to clarify, are you saying Nani is not only the best winger in the country, but the behind only Ronaldo and Giggs in the premiership era? In terms of natural ability, at least?
No doubt, as both sides will tend to over-score and under-score, the middle's a fair place to meet.
I think it depends on the time frame you judge him on, especially considering the transformation from someone who was widely doubted, to a player recognized as vital to the team. He's been one of our most consistent performers in recent years, but not to the extent that every game is an amazing performance, that's never really going to be the case.
His consistency is generally excellent I'd say, if you're realistic about expectations. He can't take that highest level to every game, of course not, but you rarely find him invisible, even in the slumps of form.
More talented, given time he can perhaps replicate and surpass their achievments in the Premier League. Talent is one thing, but that wasn't just what made those particular players, all time PL greats.
In terms of talent.
Uncanny
Also, I was googling high-tops and found something else out. Throw a high-top fade into the mix and things just get even stranger. Just what the feck is a Nani composed of these days?
His main point was always that compared to the general standard of the best wingers in the league - the Giggs', Ronaldo's and co. - he fell a bit short. Really isn't necessary to quibble over one bad choice of words. I don't disagree much either, really. I can't see him hitting the peaks of competing for a Ballon D'or, which was the case for a couple on there...but I'd be very disappointed if he didn't surpass the achievements of some of the others. There's that nagging fear he might just up and leave though, and if he left now I would be surprised if any fans outside of United put him up there with the others.
I think he can certainly be as good as Giggs (obviously not in terms of longevity) and he's certainly as good a player as Giggs was at this age. Ronaldo, well of course not. The Ballon D'or stuff I've never got, he should be regarded as one of the worlds best wingers though, but not in the worlds best 3 players for sure.
people always have different opinions, that's fine. Like a debate I had with Pogue a few weeks ago as to whether he's as important as Rooney to the team, we had different views. It's people who claim he's still inconsistent, or selfish, or makes bad decisions etc, things that are blatantly obvious to not be true any more, that's what really irks me. It's like saying Carrick only passes backwards.
I don't see why. Consistency, selfishness, decision making, these are all highly subjective characteristics, people will have different opinions about them, there is nothing obviously true or not true about them. Its not like a conversation about which foot he usually shoots with, something that can be demonstrably proven one way or the other.
And better than Giggs? Giggs in his prime? No way.
Sorry, just seen I misunderstood what you said about Giggs. I'd be lying if I said I remembered exactly how good he was at Nanis age, so you might be right. I'd be delighted if he reached the heights of Giggs at his prime. Not convinced he'll make it but obv I hope he does, esp if he stays with us.
How are they subjective? I think you can pick out the top players in the world and give a definitive statement on those attributes. Nani used to be very selfish but he really isn't any more. There's a reason he's clocked up more assists than anyone else in the PL in the last 16 months or whatever it is.
And who in our team has been more consistent than him this season. Carrick? Can't think of many more. The majority of the team have been really inconsistent, I think Nani has had a few ups and downs but not nearly enough to label him as being an inconsistent player.
Again, decision making is probably the hardest to judge. Yes he takes a lot of shots, but as I said, he's our best at that, why shouldn't he considering he gets quite a lot of them into the back of the net. He's also supposed to dribble lots and take on his man, sometimes that doesn't work out and it looks like he's made the wrong decision. If it did come off it'd be entirely different.
He's been one of the very best wingers in Europe overall in the last 2 years.
And who in our team has been more consistent than him this season. Carrick? Can't think of many more. The majority of the team have been really inconsistent, I think Nani has had a few ups and downs but not nearly enough to label him as being an inconsistent player.
Again, decision making is probably the hardest to judge. Yes he takes a lot of shots, but as I said, he's our best at that, why shouldn't he considering he gets quite a lot of them into the back of the net. He's also supposed to dribble lots and take on his man, sometimes that doesn't work out and it looks like he's made the wrong decision. If it did come off it'd be entirely different.
He's been one of the very best wingers in Europe overall in the last 2 years.
They're subjective because they're subjective. If that isn't obvious then there's not much I can do, other than direct you to a dictionary.
In terms of his consistency, I don't think I've criticised him for that have I? I think I've focussed on his decision making.
In terms of his consistency, I don't think I've criticised him for that have I? I think I've focussed on his decision making.
If you asked 10 people to score these attributes out of 100 for Nani and other players, you would get 10 different answers, with potentially big differences between them. Because it is subjective.
Maybe some sort of regression analysis would be in order?
Nani is that kind of player who fits perfectly in this philosophy...get genies around you (as a manager) if the system doesn't work than they save you...for me was and is the best ever winger playing for us.
Nani busted through last season and further strides might have been expected. I still think the problem is that you don't really control things in CM and hence don't give the front four a proper platform to work from.
Only thing that IMO would take him to being mentioned in the very best players in the world for me is if he could be better at free kicks.
I don't get how people say he makes the wrong decision too much. Even if you accuse of him making the wrong decisions, truly wrong decisions are few and far between. Commentators and fans alike will say that was the wrong decision in hindsight but, really because it didn't work out they then think they should have taken the safer one on.
Take Valencia for a while, he was constantly take the "right" decision in make the safe pass or maintaining possession but, that didn't create much. Now that he is taking the risk of beating his man, he is a lot more dangerous.
Nani taking on shots that maybe aren't quite there for normal people or taking 2-3 people on instead of passing is fine IMO - he is that type of player where he gets that leeway.
I don't get how people say he makes the wrong decision too much. Even if you accuse of him making the wrong decisions, truly wrong decisions are few and far between. Commentators and fans alike will say that was the wrong decision in hindsight but, really because it didn't work out they then think they should have taken the safer one on.
Take Valencia for a while, he was constantly take the "right" decision in make the safe pass or maintaining possession but, that didn't create much. Now that he is taking the risk of beating his man, he is a lot more dangerous.
Nani taking on shots that maybe aren't quite there for normal people or taking 2-3 people on instead of passing is fine IMO - he is that type of player where he gets that leeway.
We've certainly been over reliant on the wingers in recent times.
I'd say before last season. As far I'm concerned Nani was there on 31st January 2010 when he led the demolish at the Emirates. Even though we didn't win the title that year Nani was easily our best player that season behind pre-injury Rooney and a good argument can be made that he has been our second best player since, some would say our best.
Where I agree with you is on the centre midfield issue. When team's are intimidated by the aura of United and sit off us its easier for someone like Nani to cause nightmares. You saw that in the Wolves game and stuff. Nani ripped them a new one. But when people press us, unless we find a way to counter he can get marginalised. Our season went wrong the second Davies took out Cleverley and whilst there have been highlights since nothing like what went before.
Agree. But in that situation, he remains the player (even above Rooney) who can create a chance or make a chance out of nothing.
Nani has been a bit inconsistent this season so far. Started the season on fire, then struggled for a while, before coming good again and now his last few games have been all over the place. That match (was it Blackburn?) where he played the first half on the right and the second on the left gave me a definite feeling he was tired, there were a couple of occasions in the second half where he was slow to react or didn't chase someone back in a situation he normally would.
He's getting a little break now, so hopefully he'll be back to his brilliant best on the weekend.
He's getting a little break now, so hopefully he'll be back to his brilliant best on the weekend.
Playing in some kind of a free role today. Definitely not playing on the left wing.
Started well today, then gradually got into crap mode. He will be playing against his 'favourite' team next week, hope he kicks on from there
Although Nani hasn't been at his best in recent games I've actually been very happy with what I've seen. It looks like he's got to that point now that even when he's not at his best he can still contribute something. In the past when he's been off par he's been frustrating and a hinderence, which is often the case with flair players. The best ones though manage to still contribute something when they're off their best and Nani's doing that which is a really good attribute.
He's been doing that pretty much every game he plays on "the left".
It'd be severely limiting to do otherwise. He and Rooney are good enough to express themselves from anywhere on the pitch.
He must be knackered, playing non stop for 4 weeks. I thought Fergie should have rested him today.
He's playing on the left but he does come central to get involved or pop up on the right. Young was doing it too. When Evra is getting forward a lot it can be done because a lot of the time he ends up "left wing" in our move
(as much as I hate it) This.
Nani, Carrick and Valencia have played how many consecutive games? Lad needs some rest, he'll be fine.
How long away is Ashley Young from full fitness?
Thats probably the reason why he's been a bit below par and gets substituted
Not the best season for Nani but I like his work rate. He tracks back and offers alot of cover.
- Status