No more than around £30m
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
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No more than around £30m
I'd fear for our chances of winning the title and champions league next season if that were the case. It would also contradict everything Fergie said post Champions League final about having to reach Barca's level
Going into next season with Fletcher, Giggs in what will probably be his last season, a hot and cold Carrick and a still to really shine Anderson would be suicide to any hopes of competing a the top level IMO mainly due to the lack of options there if we pick up a couple of injuries
People have these fears every season. I.e. unless we sign this and that type of player, we are screwed. And they are incorrect more often than not.
So you would turn your nose up at c.£37m, around the price he is likely to go at?
Don't think we'd get him at that price. If it turned into a bidding war between us and Chelsea, it would be 40+.
You've changed your tune, since you've always justified Man Utd paying over the odds to get the right player in the past. What's different now?
Modric isn't the right player most probably
Did I?
Didn't want us to buy Berbatov what we bought him for, didn't think buying Veron for near on £30m was a good idea.
Rio and Rooney I thought was worth it, because of their young age.
It's not so much the lack of quality in midfield that I'm worried about (although even though the likes of Carrick, Fletcher and Giggs were in midfield that won the title and reached the champions league final last season they will need to improve next season especially away from home as I cant see us getting away with winning the title with just 5 away wins again) it's more the lack of depth losing Scholes & Gibson not to mention maybe O'Shea as well without replacing them.
People say Cleverley will take Gibsons place in the squad but I have my doubts as to whether we could throw him into a champions league quarter or semi final like we have with Gibson. So effectively IMO an already weak midfield will be made even weaker not sure how we can get away with that tbh
I wish I could share the same optimism as cnutofcnuts does all the time, feck me, if we somehow inherited Burnley's squad he'd be telling us that we dont need to sign anybody.
Jones will get his fair share of games in midfield.
And I do see Rooney playing a deeper role if needed.
Why does it matter to you if we pay 30 or 40m for a player you admit would significantly improve our squad?
The prize money from just one extra trophy would more than make up the difference.
I've yet to see Burnley's squad win the league.
And that's the scenario we have to avoid. We should't sacrifice players to cover our inability to fix them through the transfer market, it would be so 2004/05 when we ended up with Rio and Rooney in midfield in a couple of games. Rooney's best role is behind the striker, deep, but not a real midfield role. He should be free.
Paying that kind of money, on top of what we are already spending, devalues the success resulting from it. Makes us little different from City and Chelsea.
People keep saying that about Jones I dont see why though? Because he's played there sparingly for Blackburn? He's been bought because of his ability as a CB imo. I would imagine Jones would play as many games in midfield as O'Shea did last season
The only reason behind not signing a midfielder IMO would be like you say we see Rooney playing deep, not as deep as an out and out midfielder but more like he did when partnered with Chicharito and thinking him there along with what we already have is enough - only time will tell if that's true though
You think?
Big ask for a player who doesn't even consider himself a central midfielder to cover for the dozens of league games in central midfield we got from Scholes and Gibson last season. All in his debut season for United. His second in the Premier League. At 20 years old.
Little different? Our net spend over the last 5 years is closer to zero than it is to what either of those teams have spent. Does the difference between 30 and 40m spent replacing one of the greatest midfielders ever really bother you all that much?
i'm not comparing Burnley's squad to ours, i'm saying you need to take the red tinted specs off once in a while. Optimism is good, and in this discussion (from what i've skimmed through) you've arguably got a case, but you constantly talk down to people who suggest that perhaps not all is well at our club.
Looking at some of our midfield performances last season, and I'm talking about the weaker sides, I honestly think you may be overestimating our lads in midfield. Or at least counting too much on return to a certain form, which some may be able to and others do not.
When you are overran by Wolves, West Brom, Blackpool, Villa, Liverpool, Bolton - and I'm not talking about a few bad minutes, I'm talking about really looking stunned and unable to hold the ball and do something with it - in can't be that difficult to improve on that.
I am not talking about a deep midfield role, but either the attacking one of three in midfield, or the more traditional deep lying striker.
Jones will not play much as a CB next seson, unless there is plenty of injuries, and Sir Alex will want to match him.
Hence why I don't think Sir Alex will add to the midfield, unless he manages to pull off a purchase of Modric or Nasri for reasonable money.
My optimism is based on what I see in front of, and has in the past proved to be right most of the time.
Talking down people?
Though I agree with your general tone, and with the view that he has been bought and will be used mainly as a central defender, he was hardly used "sparingly" there for Blackburn, he made 24 starts last season - 18 as a CDM and 6 as a CB.
Can't solely blame the two in midfield for that.
Third. Not that it's relevant to the point, I just thought I'd point it out.
Nope. But they are the heart of it, surely. We've got class everyone else on the pitch, and even when we got Rooney back on form, Rio back on form, Valencia back after injury, it continued to look a problem. If it's not mostly about the midfield, what is it?
The bottom line is we know Carrick's strengths and weaknesses. We also know Fletcher's. Both are players that should be played alongside more creative players. And ours come down to 38 year old Giggs and unproven Anderson. It's just not enough. It wasn't enough when we had Scholes, and it's certainly isn't now that he's gone.
You structure the team to compensate for any weaknesses.
In this case, you let the likes of Rooney and the wide players stand for the creation, which means involving Rooney on the ball as much as possible.
This supposed lack of creativity doesn't bother me. We scored plenty of goals last season for a team that allegedly lacks creativity.
What worries me is our ability to retain possession under pressure and provide a platform for the creative players to express themselves. This is something we failed to do far too many times last season and I don't see how replacing Scholes, Hargreaves and Gibson with a rookie centre half, playing out of position, is going to help matters.
I'm not all that bothered about signing some sort of creative genius. We just need another competent, effective specialist central midfielder who passes the ball accurately. Modric has relatively few goals and assists but he'd be perfect.
What worries me is our ability to retain possession under pressure and provide a platform for the creative players to express themselves. This is something we failed to do far too many times last season and I don't see how replacing Scholes, Hargreaves and Gibson with a rookie centre half, playing out of position, is going to help matters.
I'm not all that bothered about signing some sort of creative genius. We just need another competent, effective specialist central midfielder who passes the ball accurately. Modric has relatively few goals and assists but he'd be perfect.
The midfield we have at the moment will gets dicked by big teams as often as it performs so we're either banking on the other players being good enough or we've got something up our sleeve.
Not to mention the fact that Giggs is going to start faltering soon and Cleverly has never played games for us.
Not to mention the fact that Giggs is going to start faltering soon and Cleverly has never played games for us.
This thread - and prices bandied about - get's ever more amusing.
Let me remind folks what Levy has said, in a statement without precedent in terms of it's strength regarding the sale of a Spurs player:
"“We are building a team for the future to consistently play at the highest level and retaining players is crucial to that. ... In respect of Luka Modric, we are not prepared to sell, at any price (my emphasis), to Chelsea or any other club".
Make no mistake, this is not a negotiating tactic. This is Levy saying that Spurs are a big club with high ambitions of their own. This is Levy saying "feck you" to the Russian gangster and anyone else who imagines they can force through a Modric sale.
For Levy to back-track now would require a transfer fee so amazingly huge that even Spurs fans would applaud the sale because of what that money could buy. Because the alternative would mean that Harry would resign, there would be a mass revolt of Spurs fans and Levy's credibility would be shot to hell to the point where he too would probably need to resign.
40m? Don't make me laugh. 50m? Nope. Even if Modric handed in a transfer request it would change nothing and be rejected out of hand.
Best face it - Modric stays, because no one is going to offer what it would take to make Levy cross the line in the sand that he himself has quite deliberately drawn.
PS. My bet offer remains open (Modric stays, no conditions attached) - only four Caftards have so far taken it up.
Let me remind folks what Levy has said, in a statement without precedent in terms of it's strength regarding the sale of a Spurs player:
"“We are building a team for the future to consistently play at the highest level and retaining players is crucial to that. ... In respect of Luka Modric, we are not prepared to sell, at any price (my emphasis), to Chelsea or any other club".
Make no mistake, this is not a negotiating tactic. This is Levy saying that Spurs are a big club with high ambitions of their own. This is Levy saying "feck you" to the Russian gangster and anyone else who imagines they can force through a Modric sale.
For Levy to back-track now would require a transfer fee so amazingly huge that even Spurs fans would applaud the sale because of what that money could buy. Because the alternative would mean that Harry would resign, there would be a mass revolt of Spurs fans and Levy's credibility would be shot to hell to the point where he too would probably need to resign.
40m? Don't make me laugh. 50m? Nope. Even if Modric handed in a transfer request it would change nothing and be rejected out of hand.
Best face it - Modric stays, because no one is going to offer what it would take to make Levy cross the line in the sand that he himself has quite deliberately drawn.
PS. My bet offer remains open (Modric stays, no conditions attached) - only four Caftards have so far taken it up.
Good for Spurs. No club should be bullied into selling their best players.
Levy might be less absolute if Modric hands in a transfer request and/or starts kicking up a fuss in public.
Unless he comes to us I hope he stays with you lot anyway in that you won't compete with the top 4 again next year and he could well strengthen Chelsea if he leaves.
Unless he comes to us I hope he stays with you lot anyway in that you won't compete with the top 4 again next year and he could well strengthen Chelsea if he leaves.
Jones and Cleverley keep getting thrown into discussions about midfield yet Cleverley has never played a single senior game there, and Jones has played it out of necessity and admittedly prefers being a CB, add to that the fact we bought him a year early and I don't see SAF changing any plans he had for our midfield based on his signing.
Our best CM performances last season came with either Scholes or Giggs as part of the midfield, we have lost Scholes and Giggs will be 38 soon and feck knows where his head is at after all the recent shit. As Pogue says we need someone that can dictate play from midfield, not a goal scorer or even creator as Rooney does that centrally, but someone that can essentailly do what the likes of latter day Scholes, Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi etc.. do.
Did you feel the success we got after the amounts we paid for Rio and Rooney was tainted? I mean the prices we paid for them would be even more than £40M in todays market.
Our best CM performances last season came with either Scholes or Giggs as part of the midfield, we have lost Scholes and Giggs will be 38 soon and feck knows where his head is at after all the recent shit. As Pogue says we need someone that can dictate play from midfield, not a goal scorer or even creator as Rooney does that centrally, but someone that can essentailly do what the likes of latter day Scholes, Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi etc.. do.
Did you feel the success we got after the amounts we paid for Rio and Rooney was tainted? I mean the prices we paid for them would be even more than £40M in todays market.
Like how Levy tried to bully Boro into selling Downing to them?
Yeah, a lot of people seem to have taken him as a regular at centre-back for them since his breakthrough because he's played there in a few high profile games - against us and city towards the tail-end of last season for example, and his debut against Chelsea as well, but Nelsen and Samba have been Blackburn's first-choice central-defensive partnership, with Givet playing there more than Jones as well.Well I'll be honest I had no idea of that
However I would say that his position in "midfield" was extremely defensive - at times he was almost a third centre-back. Carrick played most of last season as a CDM for us and I would say Jones' average position was a fair bit deeper than that even, though he didn't hesitate to make runs forward.
However I would say that any suggestions that he's been signed as a midfielder are wide of the mark, unless Fergie is planning to play him in that same CDM role as he's played at Blackburn, and release Carrick up the pitch, more like the position he played in his first season with us.
Either way, I want Modric anyway.
I go along with all of this. I'm not sure why people see the need for us to buy a creative player so much. I'd much rather a Modric than a Sneijder if we're playing such high money. Is he as good as him? No, but he'd fit into that midfield far better.
I think Rooney will be used as the 'creative' hub next season. Our attack has plenty of goals in it, from Rooney himself to Nani, Berb, Hernandez, and the likes of Valencia and Park always contribute their share too. I'm also confident that if Modric did play in our midfield he would bag more goals than in that Spurs team.
Basically, there's limited options out there right now, and if we DO want to spend big on an established midfielder, he's the way to go.
Then again, Chelsea will probably get him now, rendering this pointless.
Based on what?
Last years PL was not vintage, but teams seem willing to spend a lot more money this time around, bucking the trend of other leagues.
My opinion is that the league as a whole will I prove and the gap between the clubs will close.
Last year is was glaringly obvious we lacked quality in midfield - results and performances away from home speak for themselves. The players referred to weren't "too good" then.
I am almost certain fergie will bring in significant midfield reinforcement, and if not, the club risk falling behind the Chelsea's and Man City's of the world who will undoubtedly bring in more quality. If this is allowed to happen clearly the club are being hamstrung by the owners.
Fergie has worked miracles in the past, but now the 19th has been won, if he cant get close to Barca because of limits on transfer funds then why carry on? I personally think Fergie's been promised money to bring in players he needs - hence being able to blow £20 million on a young player in a position where have significant stregth in depth already.
Was discussing this with a pal of mine and he raised an interesting point as to where Spurs go from here.
If they keep Modric - as they seem determined to do, how exactly do they convince him that they've got ambitions of getting back into the top 4?
Clearly Next year will be the hardest its been in terms of CL qualification - Chelsea and City will spend heavily, as have Liverpool who I think may do alright. Arsenal also look like trying to address issues in their side if you believe the rumours.
To me this adds up to Spurs having to spend substantially - certainly on a couple of decent forwards and probably at the back as well. As well as supposedly trying to get the cash together to build a new stadium in order to compete long term.
You think they have the money (in terms of fees and wages) and prestige to attract the calibre of player required to be back in the top 4? Be interested to hear your opinions.