Manchester Arena Bombing 22.05.17

Zii said:
Why do people always blame ourselves (the west) when something like this happens. Stop making excuses for their evil
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Nobody is making excuses, just trying to understand the variables that drive young men and women to commit these dreadful acts. And its nothing to do with being evil. It fecking amazes me how its fine for people to be devastated by this, and totally unapologetic for wanting retribution, although they totally dismiss the reason these extremists exist, might just be that they are sick and tired of the death and destruction they are witness to. Do you know how you would respond,if you had lost you beloved city and many friends and family, might not you take up arms and on the off chance behave totally irrational?

Or is it easier to ignore the horror that is going on throughout the middle east and blame it on the Koran. Why not a different tact? why not intervene and stop the war in Syria and Yemen? why not extend a bloody hand and actually try and help these people instead of demonising their faith all the time.
 
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Ubik said:
Kinell

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I'm always unsure when countries release stuff like this. Does it help restore some confidence or does it just contribute more to an atmosphere of fear/nerves? It's not like the general public can do much with the information anyway. But I can also understand doing this to restore some credibility and faith in intelligence services and show people the right side wins most of the time.

For me personally, I've got five concerts planned in Manchester/London in July and I'd rather take the "ignorance is bliss" option of not knowing how many times terrorists have been trying to blow us up.
 
Zii said:
Why do people always blame ourselves (the west) when something like this happens. Stop making excuses for their evil
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Well, I think it makes sense to take a step back and see who created the evil that you're talking about. Right now, the US forces in an attempt to fight ISIS are arming the Kurds. As time passes, if it turns out that some "radical" Kurd gets involved in some heinous act of terror (against anyone - West included), then would you not point some finger at the source of it all?

I'm not saying the US (or the west in general) have complete blame on a lot of the shite that happens but some part of the blame definitely is with the west.
 
mancan92 said:
So? This happens every month over there. In fact 100 is only a small number compared to other attacks. But hey they are all evil and we are all good. It's because they are Muslims etc etc.
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Perhaps I misinterpreted you, your wording made it sound to me like this had happened today.
 
mancan92 said:
So? This happens every month over there. In fact 100 is only a small number compared to other attacks. But hey they are all evil and we are all good. It's because they are Muslims etc etc.
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Your wording implies this attack happened today.

Though i kind of agree with your sentiment with the large number of innocent people killed over in the middle east with the airstrikes and the silence from a lot of the western media and the citizens.
 
mancan92 said:
To honest it shows how bias our media is that it took 2 months to report on this.
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It was reported everywhere two months ago. We had a discussion about it here on the Cafe.
 
mancan92 said:
Then why do we still have the same people going on and on about it being because of people being Muslims that these terrorist attacks happened?
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I'm not sure who you have in mind, but this can be explained by people weighing up different potential factors and coming to different conclusions.
 
mancan92 said:
Then why do we still have the same people going on and on about it being because of people being Muslims that these terrorist attacks happened?
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While that's true, that view has been in the minority in this thread and plenty of posts have said it's a simplistic view in the least.

Also, I don't care for people laying blame on 'the west' the same as I don't accept the blame is with Islam. The blame lies with leaders of some of the western governments and political Islamic extremism. While we have many Muslims condemning these attacks, similarly we had a million people march on parliament against war in the gulf. We were roundly ignored and now innocent people the world over are paying the price.
 
Unclear how truthful the brother is being, as no doubt he will be being tortured by the Libyans.

The mother should be arrested as well, as she would have known something was going to happen when her son rings and asks for forgiveness.

Probably wouldn't have stopped the attack, but if the UK authorities were tipped off then they could have reacted.

 
rcoobc said:
Is Twitter actually journalism, or are they allowed to share useful info and opinions on it?
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In any line of work you're a representative of the company you work for in public settings/social media. I.e, if you say "Waitrose is for posh shitc**ts" on twitter, while working at waitrose they can fire you for it. With journalists it's an amped up version of that because your job is why people are following you in the first place.
 
Silva said:
In any line of work you're a representative of the company you work for in public settings/social media. I.e, if you say "Waitrose is for posh shitc*nts" on twitter, while working at waitrose they can fire you for it. With journalists it's an amped up version of that because your job is why people are following you in the first place.
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Yeah, but they are just doing some basic reporting... not calling out their boss sleeping with the mail boy.

Dobba said:
If she wants to use it as a personal account she needs to stop reporting from events in a professional capacity on it.
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What she's doing isn't personal....

Okay, maybe this is my fault by saying "opinions", but they could be "professional opinions"
 
It's twitter for heaven's sake. The obsession with Kuenssberg is very very odd. Ukippers were at it today as well.
 
Ban said:
One day it's crazy talk the other day he's blowing himself up.
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So essentially you then have to ban anyone that talks crazily e.g. The blokes who claim Jesus is going to rise up and make us pay for our sins and the white nationalist blokes.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
So essentially you then have to ban anyone that talks crazily e.g. The blokes who claim Jesus is going to rise up and make us pay for our sins and the white nationalist blokes.
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Guy who yells that Sharia will take over Uk and similar stuff is probably ending up as a ISIS jihadist if he hasn't already. At least he should be brought for questioning. I'm not sure that the comparison with blokes who yell that Jesus will rise again is appropriate.
 
Ban said:
Guy who yells that Sharia will take over Uk and similar stuff is probably ending up as a ISIS jihadist if he hasn't already. At least he should be brought for questioning. I'm not sure that the comparison with blokes who yell that Jesus will rise again is appropriate.
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Not necessarily, thinking sharia is great and all isn't the same thing as wanting to commit jihad. You'll create more foes this way and it becomes a crime to simply think.
 
Ban said:
Guy who yells that Sharia will take over Uk and similar stuff is probably ending up as a ISIS jihadist if he hasn't already. At least he should be brought for questioning. I'm not sure that the comparison with blokes who yell that Jesus will rise again is appropriate.
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Guys like that in the UK have typcially been associated with Anjem Choudary's al-Muhajirun group, and yes, a good number of them have ended up either going to Syria to fight with ISIS, or arrested in the UK for planning (and in some cases successfully executing) terror attacks. Everybody ever seen with those people should be (and likely is) under severe surveillance.
 
2cents said:
Guys like that in the UK have typcially been associated with Anjem Choudary's al-Muhajirun group, and yes, a good number of them have ended up either going to Syria to fight with ISIS, or arrested in the UK for planning terror attacks. Everybody ever seen with those people should be (and likely is) under severe surveillance.
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I hope they're at least tracked, yeah. đ

One thing I don't get is that the guy flew to Lybia, got back and nobody bat an eyelight. You don't go to Lybia for vacation.
Also there are photos of his brother with machine gun and his dad isn't exactly a saint either.

There was some story about his brother recently?

FlawlessThaw said:
Not necessarily, thinking sharia is great and all isn't the same thing as wanting to commit jihad. You'll create more foes this way and it becomes a crime to simply think.
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What about claiming that ISIS flag will fly on Downing street?
 


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Ban said:
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Yeah the whole documentary is on Netflix. They're al-Muhajirun members who've had their passports taken away to prevent them travelling to Syria.
 
Ban said:
What about claiming that ISIS flag will fly on Downing street?
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Supporting ISIS is completely different to supporting sharia as it is an enemy of the state. So someone who states that probably should be tracked, I doubt the ones who would do anything however would be so forthright in their views.
 
Ban said:
I hope they're at least tracked, yeah. đ

One thing I don't get is that the guy flew to Lybia, got back and nobody bat an eyelight. You don't go to Lybia for vacation.
Also there are photos of his brother with machine gun and his dad isn't exactly a saint either.

There was some story about his brother recently?


What about claiming that ISIS flag will fly on Downing street?
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He got arrested yesterday for his links to terrorism and they suspect he was going to launch an attack in Libya. Their father who at first appeared to be a well respected figure in the Manchester Libyan community was previously part of a terror group himself.

As for the guy travelling to Libya, it wont have been that suspicious in itself as his family moved back there a few years ago after leaving the UK.
 
Fergies Gum said:
He got arrested yesterday for his links to terrorism and they suspect he was going to launch an attack in Libya. Their father who at first appeared to be a well respected figure in the Manchester Libyan community was previously part of a terror group himself.
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Nice family.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Well if they're thinking of attacking, then they're pretty dumb. I think they would be on the intelligence services' radar.
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Those who could went to Syria, some (including Choudhary) are in prison, and the rest have had their passports taken away and I'm sure are under heavy surveillance round the clock. But even so, the killers of Lee Rigby were associated with this group, and somehow slipped the net.
 
Ban said:


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As I've said many times. There's no difference between ISIS and majority of Saudi Arabia.
There was a study detailing where most secretarian tweets were coming from. Saudi was well ahead of all the other countries in the middle east.
Yet we call them allies in the fight against terror.
This shite will not stop until we stop deceiving ourselves.
 
Adisa said:
As I've said many times. There's no difference between ISIS and majority of Saudi Arabia.
There was a study detailing where most secretarian tweets were coming from. Saudi was well ahead of all the other countries in the middle east.
Yet we call them allies in the fight against terror.
This shite will not stop until we stop deceiving ourselves.
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I don't think we are deceiving ourselves mate, our politicians have their own agenda.
 
Adisa said:
As I've said many times. There's no difference between ISIS and majority of Saudi Arabia.
There was a study detailing where most secretarian tweets were coming from. Saudi was well ahead of all the other countries in the middle east.
Yet we call them allies in the fight against terror.
This shite will not stop until we stop deceiving ourselves.
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is the correlation between the way a society/culture/religion administers punishment and the desire to go to a concert and blow children to bits?

I think just about everyone disagrees with Saudi Arabia's criminal punishment - but drawing a line from that to the willingness to walk into crowded areas and blow people up is a bit of a stretch, no?
 
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