In a nutshell. With City’s current profile, I’m pretty sure we could get at least what Etihad pay us if went on the open market, if not more. Sure, it seemed over valued when the deal was first signed but that’s not the case now. However, even if it is under valued these days I can’t ever see Etihad being ditched under the current ownership so it’s hypothetical really.
Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
In a nutshell. With City’s current profile, I’m pretty sure we could get at least what Etihad pay us if went on the open market, if not more. Sure, it seemed over valued when the deal was first signed but that’s not the case now. However, even if it is under valued these days I can’t ever see Etihad being ditched under the current ownership so it’s hypothetical really.
I’m not, 16/17 figures for both clubs.
Can’t find a breakdown anywhere but I’d say the bulk of it doesn’t come from AD/UAE companies these days. If you check out the Soccerex link I put up earlier you’ll see that since the start of 2016/17, City have signed deals with the following companies - individually they won’t be of the value of our main sponsors but collectively they’ll be worth a fair chunk:
Goals
Qnet
Thomas Cook Sport
K8.com
Carlsberg
Eaton
Dongqiudi
BNN
Hays
The Open
Nexen Tire
Hyperion
Heineken
Tecno
iTrader.com
Valvoline
Dsquared2
SHB
Mundipharma
EA Sports
Ballr
UBTech
Star Lager
Veqta
Ahh apologies, so your commercial income only went up 7m? I'm finding that a bit low, what was the reason for that? I know we're accused of just using the emirates countries for sponsorship but I'm sure even without that we'd have gone up more than 7m when we grew by about 40m on the year before
If all your big sponsors are signed up for years ahead there’s not a huge amount of room for growth. City’s commercial income only grew by £12m from 13/14 to 15/16.
Some stats about their form this season.
http://www.football365.com/news/the-statistics-that-make-man-city-a-phenomenon
The stat that isn't mentioned is no less important, imo, and may become significant later in the season. They have most sprints in the league, i..e play with great intensity which is the physical basis of their successful balance between attack and defence. (Read somewhere that they have conceded least shots within the penalty box in the big 5 leagues.) But is it sustainable? If it is, only an injury crisis can stop them from winning the league even if they lose some games unexpectedly (an injury crisis could be related to the intensity of their game though). Because their results are based on the way they play and not on the exceptional form of 1-2 players. The system helps the palyers to perform well. This explains why Delph has looked pretty good as a LB even though he hasn't played there for years.
http://www.football365.com/news/the-statistics-that-make-man-city-a-phenomenon
The stat that isn't mentioned is no less important, imo, and may become significant later in the season. They have most sprints in the league, i..e play with great intensity which is the physical basis of their successful balance between attack and defence. (Read somewhere that they have conceded least shots within the penalty box in the big 5 leagues.) But is it sustainable? If it is, only an injury crisis can stop them from winning the league even if they lose some games unexpectedly (an injury crisis could be related to the intensity of their game though). Because their results are based on the way they play and not on the exceptional form of 1-2 players. The system helps the palyers to perform well. This explains why Delph has looked pretty good as a LB even though he hasn't played there for years.
First we were told the owners may be rich but they wouldn't invest serious money. Then we were told they would get bored quickly and stop investing the big bucks. Then we were told we would never get the callibre of player we needed regardless of the money we threw at them. Then we were told we could get the players, but we'd never get them to gel as a team. Then we were told we might win, but it would be hollow because we have bought our success. Then when its pointed out most clubs have bought their success to one degree or another, we were told it's not so much that we bought our success, but we have bought it with money that is invested by the owners rather than money earned from the fans and somehow, that money isn't as good as a different type of money. Then we are told we will never make a profit. Then when we do, we are told the commercial deals are overpriced because they are in effect from the owners' pals so the profit isn't real. Then when it's pointed out if anything, the deals are undervalued, we are told that the deals with the other sponsors are at their maximum. At some stage will anyone acknowledge they were wrong and the owners have carried out an incredibly well thought through long term plan for success and sustainability ?
Well done, you’ve battled against severe causes and overcome them dramatically well. Big up the City. Bluemoon is the greatest.
And then when people have run out of ideas, they resort to sarcasm
It reminds me of when we were cr*p, resorting to the height of our floodlights or the width of our pitch. Then when we started to become contenders, we realised how stupid we must have looked and concentrated on the football. It's gone full circle now. If fans of other clubs want to keep going back to knocking our financials, despite time after time being proven wrong, it suggests they have conceded defeat on the field
Okay Jon, you win. Chelsea have had to deal with it for years, I’m not sure why you feel you should be immune to it. If I was a fan of City I know I wouldn’t care, I’d just watch the football.
I don't know but I reckon the prozone and conditioning experts at the club will know. Didn't it always used to be you always took a rest when you had the ball? and we have the ball the most so it might not be a major issue.
I think you're getting confused. I doubt any City fan cares in the grand scheme of things - we just like to point out where we think opposition fans are being inaccurate/wrong, be it accidentally or on purpose. It's what football fans do. For example, if someone said that Ferguson was a shit manager, you wouldn't really care but you'd probably have great fun picking that person's argument apart and telling them they're talking bollocks.
It wasn't over valued when the deal was signed either. It was worth what Etihad felt it was worth to them, what their Australian CEO at the time James Hogan, figured it was worth to the company. The fact it perhaps seemed high, ignores the fact that Etihad as an Abu Dhabi based business, trying to establish itself as a global airline, presumably though the idea of being associated with a major Abu Dhabi owned Premier League club that was destined to go from strength to strength, was particularly attractive to them. Hardly surprising they would want to align themselves with a business also backed by their own country is it. No different from British businesses back British olympic teams, for example. UEFA who bent over backward to feck us over with FFP, still concluded that Etihad was not a related party.
I think they got a very good deal and it's worked well for them, hasn't it.
Good post. Pretty much sums the situation up.
Pep MOTM, well deserved.
Hope Sane get's POTM now.
Hope Sane get's POTM now.
The owners do seem to have operated fairly sensibly. When they came in a lot of people assumed there'd be a constant managerial merry go-round, but since arriving they've essentially had three of their own appointments, since Hughes wasn't their own choice and probably wasn't good enough to manage a title winning team.
Unlike Abramovic at Chelsea the managers have generally been given time to succeed, and when it's been clear they're either not good enough or need to be replaced they've been let go for someone better to come in. Plenty of criticism was directed towards you for the handling of the Pellegrini/Guardiola situation but it's easy to forget you'd already been under-performing for a while under Pellegrini and that a change was probably necessary.
I genuinely thought they were 5 points ahead in the table, not 8.
Image if Everton hadn't stopped them 
Don't wanna sound like I'm giving excuses but that game we would've won if it weren't for Walker getting wrongly sent off.Image if Everton hadn't stopped them
I'm not sure we would, we were absolutely mince in that first half
You're right, that game could have gone either way and a draw was probably fair. It was our first home game and I believe that we were not fully tuned up at the start of the season (Brighton and Bournemouth were also subpar performances). Pep knew that we were in for a long, hard, season where we would likely be competing on multiple fronts come March/April so planning ahead is key.
We were awful, but considering how well Pep's changes at half-time worked and made Everton collapse tactically I think it's fair to at least entertain the idea that we could well be 33 for 33 had the red card not happened.
At the start of last season the pressing game relied too heavily on Silva and De Bruyne, and was unsustainable. Since Sergio was “persuaded” to join in, the front three now form a pressing unit, and the huge increase in mobility at full back has made it a team effort. Who can say whether it will last, but Guardiola increased the possibility fivefold with those two tweaks. For the rest of the season, I’m assuming it will be used to get City two goals ahead, if possible, at which point they’ll have the brains to step off the gas a little.
It's worked well for both parties I reckon. When it was first signed, I'm pretty sure I hadn't even heard of Etihad at that point which I guess was the same for most people in this country but now they and City are synonymous with each other and every football fan knows who they are.
From what I can see, this is exactly the plan and it seemed to be the case with Guardiola's other teams - start off fast and try and effectively put the game to bed in the first 30-40 minutes, then "swallow" the ball making it hard for the opposition to get a foothold in the game. Of course, it won't pan out like that all the time even if we run out winners. Chelsea away for example - we were the better team throughout but had to wait until midway through the second half for the breakthrough. On the other hand, we were 2 up in next to no time at home to Napoli which turned out to be an invaluable position as they piled on a lot of pressure in the second half.
The pressing was strategic in that match as well. I think the pressing intensified as Chelsea ceded the intiative.
Are you saying that on the back of 2 Premier league titles over the last decade, your revenue has reached within 20% of United, Barca, Real without any sort of dodgy accounting/dealings?
So you guys hired the most astute business men in world football. They found deals that no one in world could find. That just seems too big of a stretch to believe. I am sure the sheikh can hire great business men but I don't believe for a second that at least Real Madrid, Bayern and Chelsea couldn't have hired better and left you in the dust business wise.
It’s not that unbelievable really. It’s just coincidence that our success has come alongside the 2nd wave of mass revenue in the sport, which has increased substantially over the last couple of years in this country. Much in the same way yours coincided with the PL and Sky impact. You’ve taken that context completely out of your comment. Now is very different from what clubs could demand from sponsorships 10 years ago, and our success aligned nicely to that.
Individuals also can have a huge impact on the business. It’s a different game from the actual football. You can easily say “Oh well if you could hire great people then so can everyone else”, but the business world is proof that companies in the same industry succeed and fail all the time to drastically different levels. I don’t think our management team are revolutionary, but they’re streets ahead of a lot of sides, and likely ahead of yours.
Strange comment to make. Nobody catches up that quick without sustained success. Not only are you already posting higher commercial revenue than Utd but you've overtaken us during a point when we are posting record numbers ourselves, its not like we are standing still. Thats a ridiculous leap.
Id also add that due to the way EPL clubs split their media income, Sky tv deals and mass revenue incomes mean squat when its shared out equally. Nobody has an advantage there.
Theres a reason nobody outside of City fans respect your financial reports, and if non City fans don't respect it then how is your brand growing so fast? What markets are being broken into here?
Id also add that due to the way EPL clubs split their media income, Sky tv deals and mass revenue incomes mean squat when its shared out equally. Nobody has an advantage there.
Theres a reason nobody outside of City fans respect your financial reports, and if non City fans don't respect it then how is your brand growing so fast? What markets are being broken into here?
You didn't look that good in the first 3 games, tbh.
I think people perhaps don't realise just how talented Khaldoun Al Mubarak is. This is a guy who is not connected to the Abu Dhabi royal family, but has risen from the role of sales rep to be one of the most powerful men in Abu Dhabi. I think people should reflect on just how much of an achievement that is.
As CEO of Mubadala Development Company, he's in control of something like $50bn of assets. He's the CEO of goodness knows how many businesses and he's only 41. He masterminds virtually all of Abu Dhabi's development projects. The guy is a bone fide genius and people like this are pretty darned rare. It is no coincidence that City have had incredible commercial success with Khaldoon running the club.
It's like having Warren Buffet buy a football club and like people are surprised it has commercial success? It's not a surprise.
As CEO of Mubadala Development Company, he's in control of something like $50bn of assets. He's the CEO of goodness knows how many businesses and he's only 41. He masterminds virtually all of Abu Dhabi's development projects. The guy is a bone fide genius and people like this are pretty darned rare. It is no coincidence that City have had incredible commercial success with Khaldoon running the club.
It's like having Warren Buffet buy a football club and like people are surprised it has commercial success? It's not a surprise.
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we're 60m behind United in commercial revenue, though once the new Ethiad deal and shirt sponsor deals are sorted we'll be close to level pegging.
True actually.
People have kind of glossed over that. We were saying "same old, same old" at the start of the season. All the possession, dozens of chances and not taking them.
Chelsea have been by far the most successful club in England over the past decade. Yet they are on your level financially. So they weren't able to capitalise on their much greater domestic success (they also won the CL and EL). You have won only one title in the past 5 years and that was four years ago. Heck you have only won the title once since we won ours. This isn't some unparalleled success that no other club in world football could manage.
Bayern, Real Madrid and Barca are much more successful recently yet again they can't compete with your growth. It defies logic that 2 premier league titles buys you the business success that Chelsea, Real Madrid and Bayern couldn't manage. Atletico Madrid won a title a couple of years back, Dortmund won it 4 years back, Leicester won it a year back, they didn't all of a sudden start posting profits compared to the top tier clubs.
Yeah, it was clearly a problem with players geling together.
Well this is the whole point, where is the success? If you had dominated the league for 5 years & won lots of trophies you would be a sponsors dream. You consistently finish in the top 4, but that's about it. Sponsors want to be associated with teams that win trophies though. We have been garbage for 4 seasons but have still won trophies. We also have our PL reputation built over 2 decades. This is what has kept us generating the revenues we do.
We are now supposed to believe that you are now posting revenues near on a par with us without doing any of these things.
Even if City are involved in creative accounting,UEFA and the FA do nothing about it or remotely care, so it's no use.
But if they were serious, they would properly scrutinise all related party transactions.Even in basic IFRS accounting, that's something that is a basic disclosure requirement.
But if they were serious, they would properly scrutinise all related party transactions.Even in basic IFRS accounting, that's something that is a basic disclosure requirement.
1.They do care.
2. They have looked.
3. There was found to be nothing wrong.
Point 3. Is why PSG are still being looked at.
When you say nobody outside of City fans respects our financial reports, what you really mean is some opposition fans, Arsene Wenger, and that sanctimonious twat who is the head of La Liga.
Otherwise, plenty outside of City fans respect our financials. Unless you think you know more than the likes of Forbes, Brand Finance, and Soccerex. Maybe you think those 3 are being paid off by City to say good things about our finances. Speaking of Soccerex, I put up a link of theirs the other day which listed every commercial deal at every Premier League club plus a section for each club showing all deals signed since the start of 2016/17. There were 24 companies who signed deals with City and very few were from Abu Dhabi/UAE. Maybe you think all these deals are fake, in which case Heineken are in on this big scam too.
And if it’s just deals relating to companies close to our owner that you have an issue with, then surely you’re equally dismissive of Stoke City’s finances given that their owner’s company Bet365 are also Stoke’s shirt and stadium sponsor. Ditto Newcastle and Fat Bastard Ashley’s Sports Direct tie-up. Ditto Everton and Moshiri’s mate Usmanov sponsoring their Finch Farm training complex through one of his companies. For some weird reason though, I never once see you complaining about any of those.
None of those clubs have unusually high commercial revenue.