Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

[Fluctuation0161]

Yeah but those agents didn't increase their price when other clubs expressed interest. That's the point. We can easily afford Sanchez's demand today but then it might become a general notion in all our future deals which we don't want to entertain.

This was your point.

Gone are the days when players/agents used to demand absurd salary/fees etc to join City.
We decide the terms and play by our own rule now rather than agreeing to whatever the player/agent wants.

It then turns out City have spent the most of all Premiership clubs on agent fees.

I wouldn’t call that ”playing by your own rules”. I’d just call that missing out on Sanchez.

Also your wages increased by 25% in Peps first year. So there is no precedent being set in wages or agents fees, which was your initial point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...wage-bill-rises-25-244m-pep-guardiolas-first/

 

[RedorDead21]

De bruyne's game now is world class while alexis's performances have been great but definetly no way near de bruyne's performance.
No one is defying Sanchez's quality as a player but even though the overall money might not be that huge in today's market, any future contract negotiations will face this deal's implications.

City stepped back because the gentleman's agreement was broken, nothing else.
I dont think that its a question of affording Sanchez and his agents wage/fees demands.

"Players that will cost a lot more money with no indication they will reach the level of Sanchez in the PL"
This statement is not necessarily true. Players like Sane/Jesus in the long run will be far more beneficial. But i knid of understand what you are trying to imply. However i think thats not appropriate for all the cases, most case yes.

Its not your money and my underlying point still stands. You've spent money like its going out of fashion with no complaints or statements of "justifying anything". Indeed these statements only appear when it's clear you're not getting your man. I bet if it was Veratti and the wage structure was being smashed you's would be justifying the reasons instead. Its all cr*p lets be honest. Your wage structure will go up several notches anyway in the next 2 years. You're not going to reverse the tide so pretending thats why you're not getting Sanchez is a joke really!

 

[RedorDead21]

That's the whole point, he's supposedly close to signing a new deal. We sign Sanchez and pay him substantially more than everyone else then you really think de Bruyne's agent is just gonna do feck all about it? It's his job to do something about it.



Yeah, and it's Alexis Sanchez, not Lionel Messi. It's got nothing to do with morals, either.

Its also the agents job to say Sanchez is getting 350k across the road at United so my client wants y...Its irrelevant Sanchez and KDB won't be sharing a dressing room.....your boy can still leave if he wasn't happy with his pay and wanted parity with the leagues best players!

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[roonster09]

That's the whole point, he's supposedly close to signing a new deal. We sign Sanchez and pay him substantially more than everyone else then you really think de Bruyne's agent is just gonna do feck all about it? It's his job to do something about it.



Yeah, and it's Alexis Sanchez, not Lionel Messi. It's got nothing to do with morals, either.

KdB is getting 16 Million per year in the new contract, Sanchez is getting around same money. It's not impossible for City to just give 20-30K more to KdB to match the wages and this is if you believe everything City have fed to the media.

 

[robinamicrowave]

really? There's a reason he was Pep's number one attacking target in the summer.

A lot's happened since the summer. He would have suited us then, but we'd have to disrupt a pretty sweet balance to fit him in now.

 

[Seij]

When was the last time they lost to a "random bottom half team"?

You know what? I checked the records and it's actually been a very long time since they did that. That's my mistake. Klopp's record against tougher oppositions is quite amazing while his team seems to struggle consistently winning against lower table teams so I had assumed that they lost a few this season in the similar pattern.

They did draw quite a few games though.

 

[Seij]

Why do people even bother to post this shit ? Is it the first thing that comes into their heads and then out of their mouths with no thought to accuracy or they don't bother to check their facts ?

We've lost 2 matches this season, to City & Spurs.

http://www.skysports.com/liverpool-results

As I replied to another poster above, yes that is my mistake, which was based more on last season but I hadn't realized that Liverpool under Klopp really improved on that this season.

My apologies. Now, let's stay civil please.

 

[Oaencha]

I laughed so hard I woke my girlfriend up; now she’s pissed at me...

 

[haram]

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'd love it if this happened. People get so deluded at times on here. Liverpool are an exceptional team, especially in terms of pressing. The majority of sides in this league try and replicate what they did yesterday, and City will walk through them. It's our first loss all season, excluding the Shaktar game where we played a second team, do you really think other teams haven't already tried this method, including Liverpool when they lost 5-0? How did it go for Napoli and Spurs?

And how's the other tactic been going for teams then? Of course most teams will struggle to beat you whatever tactic they use just like they struggle to beat us or other good teams. However a different tactic can be more useful/efective. You only have to look at Barcelona and see how over the last 3-4 seasons mid table La liga sides have often manged to overrun their midfield and shut them down by pressing high up the pitch. There's no reason why it can't be effectively used against City or anyone else. The question as always is about execution. Liverpool are absolutely exceptional at it but others may also employ it effectively.

 

[Womp]

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We can catch and beat Man City. We are a bit behind, but we got enough I think to stand a chance. Call me mad and I am probably close to that, but I don't think the race is over.

 

[gajender]

We can catch and beat Man City. We are a bit behind, but we got enough I think to stand a chance. Call me mad and I am probably close to that, but I don't think the race is over.

We are not catching City we are simply not good enough for all the improvement we have shown this season our longest winning streak in the league is 4 matches a poor result for us always round the corner . City may implode but even then we don't have enough quality or consistency to make them pay ,we would do well to consolidate our second position and quell Liverpool's charge.

 

[BlueMoonOutcast]

The gap is currently twelve points. I'm getting more and more nervous, the more people say that it's over and that we can't be caught. Haven't we just dropped five points in two weeks?

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The gap is currently twelve points. I'm getting more and more nervous, the more people say that it's over and that we can't be caught. Haven't we just dropped five points in two weeks?

Same, huge two games coming up. City has Newcastle (H) and WBA (H), they really should go for the 6 points, while United have Burnley (A) and Spurs (A). To have a 12+ gap after 25 games wouldn't sound too bad.

 

[haram]

The gap is currently twelve points. I'm getting more and more nervous, the more people say that it's over and that we can't be caught. Haven't we just dropped five points in two weeks?

You’re a bit lucky we had that nonsense run of 3 draws against Soton, Burnley & Leicester.

Should have seen the Leicester game out easily, start Lingard over Ibra and we beat Burnley, Lukaku injury vs Soton.

 

[NK86]

We are not catching City we are simply not good enough for all the improvement we have shown this season our longest winning streak in the league is 4 matches a poor result for us always round the corner . City may implode but even then we don't have enough quality or consistency to make them pay ,we would do well to consolidate our second position and quell Liverpool's charge.

I don't understand posts like these, especially the bolded part. It's like we have to play differently or use different tactics if we want to try to chase City down versus trying to consolidate our position. We have to try to keep winning as many games as possible and then let other things take care of themselves. To say we should focus on consolidating our position is ridiculous.

 

[Liver_bird]

I actually like City and most fans I meet are always decent. Them winning leagues never seems to bother me and they do it playing good football at the very least, they're just really inoffensive from that point of view.

But dreary me Bluemoon is abysmal, it's really hard to believe it isn't just some sort of concocted social experiment, for what I have no idea.
Makes you appreciate the cafe more and all the decent opposition fans that post on here.

 

[gajender]

I don't understand posts like these, especially the bolded part. It's like we have to play differently or use different tactics if we want to try to chase City down versus trying to consolidate our position. We have to try to keep winning as many games as possible and then let other things take care of themselves. To say we should focus on consolidating our position is ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous at all yes our approach would differ if our aim is to overhaul City or simply to consolidate our second position , catching City would require us to win almost all our matches meaning going for victory against direct rivals at difficult away grounds where even a point could be good one and risk getting dragged into top 4 race if we lose even then it may not be enough to go past City .

 

[Norris]

As long as it is Mathematically Impossible, I'll always have hope that we can catch upto them. We're Man Utd ffs.

 

[J_Red 11]

We can catch and beat Man City. We are a bit behind, but we got enough I think to stand a chance. Call me mad and I am probably close to that, but I don't think the race is over.

If we sign Sanchez and City at least lose a game in either Newcastle or West Brom game then yea title race is not over, but I don't think they bottle those games. At the moment I think it's still too far for hoping. They have been too consistent this season.

 

[NK86]

It's not ridiculous at all yes our approach would differ if our aim is to overhaul City or simply to consolidate our second position , catching City would require us to win almost all our matches meaning going for victory against direct rivals at difficult away grounds where even a point could be good one and risk getting dragged into top 4 race if we lose even then it may not be enough to go past City .

No the point is not just about direct rivals. That's just another 2-3 matches. Our remaining matches will have a more impact. Your post made it sound like our total approach would be different depending on what we are going for. With Pool and us being so close, you think we would settle for a draw at home from before the first whistle! No, we will definitely go for the win irrespective of how far ahead City are.

 

[Blue doomer]

We can catch and beat Man City. We are a bit behind, but we got enough I think to stand a chance. Call me mad and I am probably close to that, but I don't think the race is over.

How many points do you think you can achieve out of the 45 thats available to you?

 

[RedorDead21]

How many points do you think you can achieve out of the 45 thats available to you?

We'd need 40+ to win the league!

 

[Blue doomer]

We'd need 40+ to win the league!

Yeh i agree pal, I think the best hope you have would be to win 13, draw 1, lose 1. Which is still a formidable task. Then we would really need to get 28 points out of the remaining 45 to win on GD.

Personally I think even a total of around 86 will be enough.

 

[gajender]

No the point is not just about direct rivals. That's just another 2-3 matches. Our remaining matches will have a more impact. Your post made it sound like our total approach would be different depending on what we are going for. With Pool and us being so close, you think we would settle for a draw at home from before the first whistle! No, we will definitely go for the win irrespective of how far ahead City are.

We would certainly go for win in all our home matches but my point was for tough away games specifically against our direct rivals like City and Spurs if we want to chase down City we need to get wins there , so Mourinho need to change his approach of safety first and go for it rather than sit on the point and risk losing . So if we want to go for the title at this stage then Mourinho need to drastically change his strategy otherwise we can continue with the same approach and be reasonably confident of finishing second.

 

[padr81]

We can catch and beat Man City. We are a bit behind, but we got enough I think to stand a chance. Call me mad and I am probably close to that, but I don't think the race is over.

You haven't a hope, if you win every single game we still only need 33 points to win the league. It's almost certain you'll drop at least 9 points (4 draws and a loss or even going unbeaten with 5 draws) which means at most City need 8 wins for the title. If you don't win the derby that becomes ever smaller.

It doesn't matter what you have, this season is done, unless you do for the last 15 games what City have done for the first 18 or so and even then its quite likely City will still take at least 33 of the 45 points remaining.

Even given current form table after the Liverpool loss for the last 6.
Liverpool - 16pts
City/Spurs - 13pts
Chelsea/United 12pts
Arsenal - 9pts

It doesn't matter how good United are between now and the end. Unless City absolutely implode the title is a done deal (8 wins from 15 will be enough I reckon).

 

[Random Task]

You haven't a hope, if you win every single game we still only need 33 points to win the league. It's almost certain you'll drop at least 9 points (4 draws and a loss or even going unbeaten with 5 draws) which means at most City need 8 wins for the title. If you don't win the derby that becomes ever smaller.

It doesn't matter what you have, this season is done, unless you do for the last 15 games what City have done for the first 18 or so and even then its quite likely City will still take at least 33 of the 45 points remaining.

Even given current form table after the Liverpool loss for the last 6.
Liverpool - 16pts
City/Spurs - 13pts
Chelsea/United 12pts
Arsenal - 9pts

It doesn't matter how good United are between now and the end. Unless City absolutely implode the title is a done deal (8 wins from 15 will be enough I reckon).

Stranger things have happened.

 

[BobbyManc]

And how's the other tactic been going for teams then? Of course most teams will struggle to beat you whatever tactic they use just like they struggle to beat us or other good teams. However a different tactic can be more useful/efective. You only have to look at Barcelona and see how over the last 3-4 seasons mid table La liga sides have often manged to overrun their midfield and shut them down by pressing high up the pitch. There's no reason why it can't be effectively used against City or anyone else. The question as always is about execution. Liverpool are absolutely exceptional at it but others may also employ it effectively.

All very true. I don't doubt that for some teams with the right players then when they play City they would be better off playing aggressively and not just sitting back. It's the attitude of some fans that makes me laugh though, that after seeing Liverpool beat us they suddenly believe that the only reason City win is because teams put all their players behind the ball, and if everyone pressed us they'd cause us a lot more problems. The reality is the exact opposite. If most teams try and press us then more often than not we break the press because of our quality and then have so much more space to attack. Napoli and Spurs did so, two exceptional sides at pressing, and we managed to deal with both of them pretty convincingly; even in Napoli's own backyard. Shaktar as well are a very good side who tried it at the Etihad and again got beaten fairly comfortably. That's my point. Most teams try it and they're going to lose, and lose heavily. People are deluding themselves if they think the average team is any better off trying that than they are if they just sit back all game.

 

[horsechoker]

 

[padr81]

Stranger things have happened.

Indeed mate, but I don't think there's ever been a team (not 12 points clear) who went from averaging 2.7 points per game for 20 odd games that have suddenly dropped to less than 2 ppg for the last 15.

In the amazing Newcastle chase you guys pulled off, you trailed by 12 points with 15 games remaining (same as today) and only dropped 5 points for the remainder of the season.
Repeating that for now would put you on 90 points. For City to finish with 90 points they can afford 10 wins and 5 losses in the last 15 games. I can easily see City getting those 30 points but I struggle to see you guys only drop 5 points. City have to show midtable form from now to the seasons end and I'm 99.9% sure that's not going to happen.

its hugely unlikely but of course is possible but what I was getting at is for United to win the title it wouldn't be down to United, it would be down to a major implosion for City. You guys could be perfect for every game left and we'd still be likely to get enough points to win.

I don't mean to sound arrogant and I was probably the last person to say the title race is done in the title race thread, but I don't genuinely think there is any chance we turn into Everton for the remainder of the season.

 

[TheReligion]

Fair to say there's more to this Sanchez deal than meets the eye after Wenger press conference?

Think its clear he's not happy with City for whatever reason, perhaps he feels the tried tapping Alexis up. It also seems as though he's snubbed City rather than the other way around.

Was very surprised to see Arsene speak so positively about United and Mourinho all things considered.

 

[Thunderhead]

Fair to say there's more to this Sanchez deal than meets the eye after Wenger press conference?

Think its clear he's not happy with City for whatever reason, perhaps he feels the tried tapping Alexis up. It also seems as though he's snubbed City rather than the other way around.

Was very surprised to see Arsene speak so positively about United and Mourinho all things considered.

don't think there has been a snub either way, we wouldn't match Arsenal's valuation, United did even if it is just a player swap.

 

[RedStarUnited]

As great as they have been, had we won our 3 draws in December we would have only been 6 points away from them. And if we were 6 points away from them going into the second half of the season with Sanchez added to the squad and Valencia curling them in with his left, we would have been unstopable.

 

[Shy_Coconut]

Think its clear he's not happy with City for whatever reason, perhaps he feels the tried tapping Alexis up. It also seems as though he's snubbed City rather than the other way around.

I get this kind of vibe too.

Mansour could buy half of london with cash found from the back of his sofa. They are now peddling the lie that the deal is off as they refuse to pay Sanchez & his agent a measly few million. All against the backdrop of them previously paying more in agents fees than any other PL team. City don't usually negotiate when buying players, they pay what the selling club asks Stones, Sterling, Walker etc etc. Sanchez is a steal when talked about in the same breath as these players.

All gives the impression that he has indeed snubbed City. This would also explain the fake Chelsea hijack bid story they put out.

 

[Thunderhead]

I get this kind of vibe too.

Mansour could buy half of london with cash found from the back of his sofa. They are now peddling the lie that the deal is off as they refuse to pay Sanchez & his agent a measly few million. All against the backdrop of them previously paying more in agents fees than any other PL team. City don't usually negotiate when buying players, they pay what the selling club asks Stones, Sterling, Walker etc etc. Sanchez is a steal when talked about in the same breath as these players.

All gives the impression that he has indeed snubbed City. This would also explain the fake Chelsea hijack bid story they put out.

the deal would be between City and Arsenal, City have refused to pay Arsenals £35m, I don't know what is so hard to comprehend with this deal with fans of both sides.

If City we're 2 points clear we'd have probably paid the £35m, we're 12 points clear with 15 games to go, we don't need to spend £35m and £350k p/w on a 29 year old

 

[breakout67]

Fair to say there's more to this Sanchez deal than meets the eye after Wenger press conference?

Think its clear he's not happy with City for whatever reason, perhaps he feels the tried tapping Alexis up. It also seems as though he's snubbed City rather than the other way around.

Was very surprised to see Arsene speak so positively about United and Mourinho all things considered.

City offered Sanchez £13m net per year
Utd offered Sanchez £14m net per year

There were also reports that City upped their offer to match Utd on the weekend

The reality is that Sanchez chose Utd over City; the money he was offered was practically the same from both clubs.

I think he did not like the way City went after him; they treated him like a nobody by doing a last minute bid in the summer and they tried to give Arsenal a lower offer in January because they wanted him for free in the summer.

 

[Shy_Coconut]

If City we're 2 points clear we'd have probably paid the £35m, we're 12 points clear with 15 games to go, we don't need to spend £35m and £350k p/w on a 29 year old

You keep telling yourself that. You have more money at your disposal than any other club in world football. It was worth paying whatever Sanchez wanted just to have him sit on the bench every week. You could make a statement as a club that you were the go to guys in Manchester. You would also deny your biggest rivals a chance to strengthen. If you could have got it over the line you would have.

City offered Sanchez £13m net per year
Utd offered Sanchez £14m net per year

There were also reports that City upped their offer to match Utd on the weekend

The reality is that Sanchez chose Utd over City; the money he was offered was practically the same from both clubs.

It's highly likely he would have been on more at City taking bonuses into account. The money argument carries no weight in any respect.

 

[Thunderhead]

You keep telling yourself that. You have more money at your disposal than any other club in world football. It was worth paying whatever Sanchez wanted just to have him sit on the bench every week. You could make a statement as a club that you were the go to guys in Manchester. You would also deny your biggest rivals a chance to strengthen. If you could have got it over the line you would have.

it really isn't, the one clear fact is we couldn't agree a fee with Arsenal, you lot did, I don't know if it's just some small minded one-upmanship people are trying to say the Sanchez snubbed city but I can't see that there was a snub either way. If he snubbed us so what, most City fans won't give a toss come summer when we sign someone younger and prettier, that's the way of football.