Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"

Womp said:
Where exactly did I say Yaya provided a shield? What he simply provides is another body in midfield against a team that attacks with pace and power, not to add it's a known fact your defence is a bit shite. If his decision was right and he didn't need another body in the midfield, why did KDB get pushed deeper in the second half? Also the second half doesn't justify his decision as you guys managed a single touch in Monaco's box in the whole first half. So much for "pressuring them in their own half", that's not just shit performances, that's shit tactics too. He made a mistake as he's done constantly in Europe since leaving Barca. Two different teams, similar tactics, similar results.

Your defence is a bit shite, your keeper situation is a bit shite and your midfield was plagued by injuries, so he insists on pressuring players who are great at getting pressed with one central midfielder, providing literally no cover to his terrible defence? Genius at work, far beyond other managers. Maybe he's just getting slapped around in the CL because the game isn't evolved enough for his tactics yet.

I don't need to explain to Pep why he's wrong. Other managers seem to be doing that for me.

Edit: Also, calling him out on his bollocks hardly makes me a keyboard warrior, only an arrogant manager would lose 6-1 and then repeat the same mistake a year later. I don't claim to know more about football than Pep, simply that he makes mistakes like anyone else. His mistakes unfortunately seem to be a result of his arrogance though, rather than lack of understanding. Results speak for themselves. You wouldn't understand though, you're infatuated by the fact that he's at your club and all, so I understand, continue on your way.
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:lol:
 
Womp said:
That's part and parcel of the game, that's all down to preparation. He should be aware that his style of play isn't going to be effective against some teams and should have players who are capable of playing a different game.

It's a bad example, but we have players like Herrera for when we want to press and dominate play or players like Fellaini when we want to avoid the opposition's press and go hoofing. Lingard for when we need speed in behind and quick transitions or Mata if we need good movement and build-up etc. Even so, he's come up short in the Champions league, hasn't even been a close contest, was embarrassed on several occasions due to his refusal to change. He played one midfielder in an away game against Monaco, one in which it was obvious they were going to throw everything they had at, his tactics are baffling at times.
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Thing is there is different type of coaches who sink with his ship (philosophy). He knows full well, the situation, but he chooses to pursuit his way: perfect his play & dominate other teams than change the philosophy. Just like how LVG claimed his team playing attacking football while we barely registered couple shot on target all game.

It's football; there is no absolute right or wrong. With the right conditions; we all saw how dominating his Barcelona team was. We know there is possibility for the philosophy to work. This guy believes he can replicate it; so let wait & see how it turns out. It maybe his eventual downfall or he can make it work in the end, time will tell.

I never wish him luck as City coach; and most of the time I would say he is very one dimensional in his coaching style; but I acknowledge that different people have different workable (not disastrous) views. I am only disagreeing with you on the part that: he doesn't realize the issue nor he didn't try to tweak; and football coach should do things the same way.

Edit: I defended LVG when people said he was clueless, too. I acknowledged his philosophy doesn't fit our club & he is trying to change our identity by his philosophy. His sacking is after the result is justified. I questioned people who saw Pep as good United coach when there was some wild link by the papers, by explaining that if you feel well with purist in LVG, you wouldn't with Pep. They are different but are same as purist.
 
I think they'll be serious contenders next season tbh. That is, of course, if he addresses the needs in the areas of the squad that need addressing. If he fecks up again next season, he'll have no excuse. But he's still arguably the best manager in football so I fully expect a much better season next year. Hopefully they come 2nd behind Chelsea. :D
 
ti vu said:
Thing is there is different type of coaches who sink with his ship (philosophy). He knows full well, the situation, but he chooses to pursuit his way: perfect his play & dominate other teams than change the philosophy. Just like how LVG claimed his team playing attacking football while we barely registered couple shot on target all game.

It's football; there is no absolute right or wrong. With the right conditions; we all saw how dominating his Barcelona team was. We know there is possibility for the philosophy to work. This guy believes he can replicate it; so let wait & see how it turns out. It maybe his eventual downfall or he can make it work in the end, time will tell.

I never wish him luck as City coach; and most of the time I would say he is very one dimensional in his coaching style; but I acknowledge that different people have different workable (not disastrous) views. I am only disagreeing with you on the part that: he doesn't realize the issue nor he didn't try to tweak; and football coach should do things the same way.

Edit: I defended LVG when people said he was clueless, too. I acknowledged his philosophy doesn't fit our club & he is trying to change our identity by his philosophy. His sacking is after the result is justified. I questioned people who saw Pep as good United coach when there was some wild link by the papers, by explaining that if you feel well with purist in LVG, you wouldn't with Pep. They are different but are same as purist.
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Great post! Always amazes me how many people genuinely think managers do not understand what is not working. The idea that they are stupid that they don't see where the weakness is and we as armchair fans can is beyond ludicrous. As you rightly point out, it is about the belief that practice will eventually make perfect and that this bumpy road to perfection is worth it. Whether it works out or not is another question, but to believe that every approach should always be the same is not only limited, but boring.
 
Watching his press conference, what is he doing at 3.55? He's a strange guy

 
Blue Barrett said:
I think they'll be serious contenders next season tbh. That is, of course, if he addresses the needs in the areas of the squad that need addressing.
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That is genius. Maybe other managers should think about doing this too.
 
Lan said:
That is genius. Maybe other managers should think about doing this too.
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Ha. Ha. Funny.

Point is, his tactics aren't really the problem. It's the personnel he has for it. And not every manager is good at making lemonade out of lemons so for someone as stubborn with his brand of football as he is, I don't expect him to be capable of adapting to the players he has. Which is why they're where they are right now.
 
Full backs are so important to his style. Improve those alone and you'd see a huge improvement in both attack and defence. It's probably been pointed out that we're using Wenger's 10 year old reject full backs right now.

Next season you'll see Pep's team. Whether it's good enough, well, I guess we'll see!
 
Not just belief but courage and many coaches lack the latter - If Pep didn't flinch after all he's already been through then painfully naive to think somehow his Premiership experience will undo him or his approach

But this is in line with the narrative against him, the spin and backtracking will be forthcoming soon enough
 
FCBarca said:
Not just belief but courage and many coaches lack the latter - If Pep didn't flinch after all he's already been through then painfully naive to think somehow his Premiership experience will undo him or his approach

But this is in line with the narrative against him, the spin and backtracking will be forthcoming soon enough
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There is no agenda against Pep. He was hailed as the messiah and has been a disappointment, if anything he's had it easy from the English press who are usually much more brutal. If he turns the situation around good for him, but it's only understandable he's being criticised considering he spent more money than any other team and was billed the golden son only to be competing for a top 4 spot and out of all important competitions bar the FA cup.

He's not a special case, he should be judged on the merits of his work, not on how he performed over half a decade ago with Barcelona - and so far he's been a disappointment in England. Whether he turns it around we'll have to wait and see.
 
FCBarca said:
Not just belief but courage and many coaches lack the latter - If Pep didn't flinch after all he's already been through then painfully naive to think somehow his Premiership experience will undo him or his approach

But this is in line with the narrative against him, the spin and backtracking will be forthcoming soon enough
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Narrative against him? Half the Caf credited him with discovering the cure for small pox before he came to England ffs. The worship went to a whole different level after the start he had.
 
Well Txiki, it's over to you. Pep isn't going to change his style to suit these bang average players so you'd better be on your game in the summer.
 
The media love to compare Jose to Moyes and LVG. Let's compare Pep.

Pellegrini in his first season:

Played 30 - 67 points and had won the EFL Cup (Net Spend £89M)

Pep:

Played 30 - 58 points and currently still in the FA Cup (Net Spend £165M)
 
Second half against Chelsea today was probably the worst this season for City under Guardiola. Pointless possession without any penetration and purpose. They looked lost on the pitch..
 
VanGaalEra said:
The media love to compare Jose to Moyes and LVG. Let's compare Pep.

Pellegrini in his first season:

Played 30 - 67 points and had won the EFL Cup (Net Spend £89M)

Pep:

Played 30 - 58 points and currently still in the FA Cup (Net Spend £165M)
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Pellegrini inherited a very good side (and yes I do see the irony of that on a Pep thread).

Yaya Toure became only the second Premier League midfielder to score 20+ league goals in one season and players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, etc were all on fire.

Our football that season was described by one media outlet as 'death by beautiful geometry' and we'd scored 100 goals by January. It's actually an underrated season.

However, Pep has inherited many of our top performers on a major downswing. He needs the summer before he can be judged properly in my opinion.
 
I watched the game tonight with two die hard Chelsea fans and they told me precisely what I feel myself - City were much more scary fixture under Pellegrini than under Guardiola
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Pellegrini inherited a very good side (and yes I do see the irony of that on a Pep thread).

Yaya Toure became only the second Premier League midfielder to score 20+ league goals in one season and players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, etc were all on fire.

Our football that season was described by one media outlet as 'death by beautiful geometry' and we'd scored 100 goals by January. It's actually an underrated season.

However, Pep has inherited many of our top performers on a major downswing. He needs the summer before he can be judged properly in my opinion.
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You're spot on, but just saying if the media are doing points comparisons, they should do it for all the managers and not pick and choose.
 
VanGaalEra said:
You're spot on, but just saying if the media are doing points comparisons, they should do it for all the managers and not pick and choose.
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Yeah I agree mate, but they'll always select whatever fits their agenda at the time.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Pellegrini inherited a very good side (and yes I do see the irony of that on a Pep thread).

Yaya Toure became only the second Premier League midfielder to score 20+ league goals in one season and players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, etc were all on fire.

Our football that season was described by one media outlet as 'death by beautiful geometry' and we'd scored 100 goals by January. It's actually an underrated season.

However, Pep has inherited many of our top performers on a major downswing. He needs the summer before he can be judged properly in my opinion.
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Why is certain coaches only get properly judged after they've spent hundreds of millions on brilliant players? Is it unfair to judge him before he spends at least £250 million net?

For years fans have wanted to see what Pep's coaching ability really is and to do that he needed a job where you don't get Barca's or Bayerns squads. Now he's been given a job when he doesn't have the best squad in the world, it seems like we are being told we have to wait until he at least has the best squad in the league until it's fair to judge him.
 
The thing is. Pep has one of the best squads in the league along with Chelsea, possibly better.
 
redmeister said:
Why is certain coaches only get properly judged after they've spent hundreds of millions on brilliant players? Is it unfair to judge him before he spends at least £250 million net?

For years fans have wanted to see what Pep's coaching ability really is and to do that he needed a job where you don't get Barca's or Bayerns squads. Now he's been given a job when he doesn't have the best squad in the world, it seems like we are being told we have to wait until he at least has the best squad in the league until it's fair to judge him.
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I'm sorry but there is nothing God himself could do to 'coach and improve' Clichy, or Sagna, or Navas at this stage. At some point you need to replace the dead wood.
 
In a weird way despite all their riches City in the last few seasons sort of remind me a bit of Arsenal. Partly the case because the league finishes from 01-06 and 11-16 both mirror each other exactly, and may continue to do so this season...but additionally due to the fact they're often able to play very good football with a strong side that goes on some excellent runs of form, but are prone to being quite weak/unreliable defensively and losing a number of big games.

Like Arsenal, since their last title win they've kind of often looked like challenging for the title at some point of the season...yet haven't really mounted a consistently credible challenge till the end of the season at all. Which should be really disappointing to them. From 2011-14 they were a very good side who had a blip of a season in the middle. While they had their flaws and needed improvement, they've regressed since then...the fact they've failed to mount a title challenge in three years despite the money they have is a bit of a disaster for them. As I say, despite the Abramovic-esque riches, it's a team that's been much closer to emulating Arsenal since their last title win.
 
People are so quick to write off managers here, I don't rate Pep as some footballing messiah as some of the lot on here so, I also think it's completely plausible he could fail given he's very ignorant in his style, but to write him off is laughable. He's won everything there is to win.

Managers need time to get things right. Next season and his last season will be a better measure of his ability. I do think he's had a major culture shock coming here, probably thought it'd be a lot easier than it turned out to be for him.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
I'm sorry but there is nothing God himself could do to 'coach and improve' Clichy, or Sagna, or Navas at this stage. At some point you need to replace the dead wood.
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Yet Leicester won the league with Fuchs and Simpson as their fullbacks and Albrighton as their winger.

Maybe Ranieri would have won a shit load of trophies with Pep's Barca and Bayern squads. In fact maybe loads of coaches would of.
 
redmeister said:
Yet Leicester won the league with Fuchs and Simpson as their fullbacks and Albrighton as their winger.

Maybe Ranieri would have won a shit load of trophies with Pep's Barca and Bayern squads. In fact maybe loads of coaches would of.
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One has nothing to do with the other. Leicester's title win was an absolute miracle for starters.

They played deep and broke with pace, Pep is trying to build an exciting attacking side. Nothing like Ranieri last season.
 
Womp said:
People are so quick to write off managers here, I don't rate Pep as some footballing messiah as some of the lot on here so, I also think it's completely plausible he could fail given he's very ignorant in his style, but to write him off is laughable. He's won everything there is to win.

Managers need time to get things right. Next season and his last season will be a better measure of his ability. I do think he's had a major culture shock coming here, probably thought it'd be a lot easier than it turned out to be for him.
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Yeah, I'd say that's fair. Certainly, anyone who's not writing off Mourinho (which I'd presume is most people here) shouldn't be writing Pep off either.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
One has nothing to do with the other. Leicester's title win was an absolute miracle for starters.

They played deep and broke with pace, Pep is trying to build an exciting attacking side. Nothing like Ranieri last season.
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So why couldn't he play a system to win the league this season and then spend another fortune in the summer? Or is the reason that the team needs a year to get used to playing exciting attacking football, before it's broken up and new players are bought in the summer, to play exciting attacking football.
 
redmeister said:
So why couldn't he play a system to win the league this season and then spend another fortune in the summer? Or is the reason that the team needs a year to get used to playing exciting attacking football, before it's broken up and new players are bought in the summer, to play exciting attacking football.
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This is debated amongst City fans all the time. 'Why doesn't he adjust his style to accommodate players that clearly can't play his brand?'

I think it's partly arrogance, and partly because it's the reason he was head hunted for years. To play his brand.
 
Their squad is overrated. There's not much difference between our squad and theirs really. Lots of holes and players who used to be great on a downward spiral.

Still, you could say both Pep and Jose have underachieved this season and should be doing better.

Will be interesting to see the kind of summer business both clubs do. I imagine both will bring out the war chest again.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
However, Pep has inherited many of our top performers on a major downswing.
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Who's on a major downswing? Aguero's poor form is a direct consequence of Pep's management and there are plenty of signs Aguero still is a class act, he's just not played properly. I give you that Pellegrini got younger and better Yaya, maybe Silva was a bit better, but Guardiola inherited De Bruyne - arguably second most talented City player and Sterling, both having huge potential. It's their second season and I feel they would do much better had they played now in Pellegrini's tactic. Add to that this season's signings.
Goalkeeper issue at City is just embarrassing and I hope even Blue Moon acknowledges that. That's all Pep.
And I'd also say Guardiola inherited much better side than Mourinho - also mentally. There was some hunger while we were Moyesed and van Gaaled. Better depth. Aguero was constantly among top three players in the league for five years.

Pep is a fraud.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Pellegrini inherited a very good side (and yes I do see the irony of that on a Pep thread).

Yaya Toure became only the second Premier League midfielder to score 20+ league goals in one season and players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, etc were all on fire.

Our football that season was described by one media outlet as 'death by beautiful geometry' and we'd scored 100 goals by January. It's actually an underrated season.

However, Pep has inherited many of our top performers on a major downswing. He needs the summer before he can be judged properly in my opinion.
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We all that... Mourinho inherited a squad with different philosophy yet still got compared to Moyes & LVG by the media after those 2 made a mess out of the squad. Moyes inherited from SAF a team with foundation of winning mentality. So it's ever fair to begin with, some posters would do a light hearted comparison, it's fair since Pep for some reasons doesn't get compared to
 
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