Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

Devil81 said:
I was looking for a thread to ask the same question,.

What is he doing, seemed more involved than Ragnick whenever the cameras panned on to them.

Even more confusing is the fact Ragnick named his staff a few weeks back and they were nowhere to be seen. Looked like Phelan didn't have a seat either
Click to expand...

alot of foriegn managers like to have someone who knows the club with them. maybe fletcher doing that role for time being?
 
Mickeza said:
Well we’re unbeaten in 8 since he started getting more involved so maybe he should stay? The fecking obsession scapegoating everything on genuine legends of the club is embarrassing on this place.
Click to expand...
Looks to me like he was brought in as part of Mates FC but other key people at the club (Murtough, Rangnick) have subsequently recognised his abilities themselves, hence his rapid rise through the ranks.

I don’t give a toss about him being a “genuine legend”. If (as looks to be the case) he’s been promoted on merit, I’m absolutely delighted and look forward to his having a long and successful career at United.
 
Hope we are grooming Fletcher to be the next director of football and don't get excited & push him management. I think Ole would have made an amazing director of football but making him the manager was the end of it. The core of the footballing culture and strategy should be set by former players while tactics, team selection, training etc should be set by the best coaches in the business. Very few can do both consistently (SAF, Wenger, Klopp are the only ones I can think of tbh).
 
bringbackbebe said:
Hope we are grooming Fletcher to be the next director of football and don't get excited & push him management. I think Ole would have made an amazing director of football but making him the manager was the end of it. The core of the footballing culture and strategy should be set by former players while tactics, team selection, training etc should be set by the best coaches in the business. Very few can do both consistently (SAF, Wenger, Klopp are the only ones I can think of tbh).
Click to expand...

Fletcher might be very good, highly rated. It’s always been mental that so many think Ole would be a good DOF? Where’s the evidence of that? All the evidence is against it:

- Poor signings, in the main.
- Lack of understanding modern methods/ways of playing.
- Let his squad become massively bloated and more difficult to coach.
 
Revaulx said:
Looks to me like he was brought in as part of Mates FC but other key people at the club (Murtough, Rangnick) have subsequently recognised his abilities themselves, hence his rapid rise through the ranks.
Click to expand...
Yes mates FC like McKenna who worked himself up from Spurs U18s to ours, did a cracking job and then impressed Mourinho in sessions so much he made him first team coach. Thank feck Ragnick is getting the “best in class” into the club from Toronto FC and New York Red Bulls - feck off with your cliched Goldbridge toxic shite - managers hiring people they’ve worked with before happens 100% of the time - yet at United it’s “mates FC”.
 
Mickeza said:
Yes mates FC like McKenna who worked himself up from Spurs U18s to ours, did a cracking job and then impressed Mourinho in sessions so much he made him first team coach. Thank feck Ragnick is getting the “best in class” into the club from Toronto FC and New York Red Bulls - feck off with your cliched Goldbridge toxic shite - managers hiring people they’ve worked with before happens 100% of the time - yet at United it’s “mates FC”.
Click to expand...
Goldbridge? Isn’t that the name that @SadlerMUFC uses to insult people critical of Maguire?

Point I was making, which I thought was obvious, was that regardless of how Fletcher got the job he’s obviously advanced through the hierarchy on merit. Contrary to what many posters critical of his continued employment seem to think.
 
Mickeza said:
Well we’re unbeaten in 8 since he started getting more involved so maybe he should stay? The fecking obsession scapegoating everything on genuine legends of the club is embarrassing on this place.
Click to expand...

Does his job have anything to do with the short term performance of the team? Isn't giving him credit for that one step away from giving Woodward credit for the three goals against Burnley?
 
When does he rightfully get stick for this interim fiasco. He appointed an interim manager who is known for pressing football despite the fact that both our strikers were the wrong side of 30. If he wasn't planning on a longterm manager he should have gotten a manager that was more suited to our mishmash of players. Then gotten someone to change our philosophy in the summer.
 
flappyjay said:
When does he rightfully get stick for this interim fiasco. He appointed an interim manager who is known for pressing football despite the fact that both our strikers were the wrong side of 30. If he wasn't planning on a longterm manager he should have gotten a manager that was more suited to our mishmash of players. Then gotten someone to change our philosophy in the summer.
Click to expand...
Who should he have hired?
 
flappyjay said:
Don't know but a manager more suited to our squad.
Click to expand...
So youre blaming him for hiring a manager as interim but cant think of a single manager who is suited to the shower of shite squad we have.
Maybe the problem is the overpaid egos that refuse to work off the ball and not Murtough and Rangnick who are clearly trying to fix the mess left behind by Ed Woodward.
 
VP89 said:
So youre blaming him for hiring a manager as interim but cant think of a single manager who is suited to the shower of shite squad we have.
Maybe the problem is the overpaid egos that refuse to work off the ball and not Murtough and Rangnick who are clearly trying to fix the mess left behind by Ed Woodward.
Click to expand...

The club were also right to sign wan Bissaka because I can't think of a better rb at the time we signed him if thats how you see things. He gets paid millions to think of who to sign and then appoint that person.
 
VP89 said:
Who should he have hired?
Click to expand...
Favre, Valverde and Garcia were the other reported options for us. If his consultancy role is something that helps the club then I think the move would have been justified, despite his poor interim spell.

It's easy to say in hindsight but for a purely 6 month stint then I think the other managers probably would have done better.
 
saivet said:
Favre, Valverde and Garcia were the other reported options for us. If his consultancy role is something that helps the club then I think the move would have been justified, despite his poor interim spell.

It's easy to say in hindsight but for a purely 6 month stint then I think the other managers probably would have done better.
Click to expand...
Anyone can say this in hindsight. Those managers are also risks too. Rangnick I think was brought in also because his view on the ground will enable better consultancy after the season. He's clearly being listened to quite heavily. This short term pain is arguably necessary to get the rebuild we really need. If another manager came I doubt they have the balls to say this entire squad needs rebuilding.
 
flappyjay said:
Don't know but a manager more suited to our squad.
Click to expand...
saivet said:
Favre, Valverde and Garcia were the other reported options for us. If his consultancy role is something that helps the club then I think the move would have been justified, despite his poor interim spell.

It's easy to say in hindsight but for a purely 6 month stint then I think the other managers probably would have done better.
Click to expand...
Which would have probably been worse for us in the long run.

It's a point that bears repeating. Our two frontrunners for the job were Poch and Ten Hag. Both managers employ an aggressive pressing system. We bought in an interim who is known for just that. The squad were shown to be absolutely lacking in their ability to employ a high press. Therefore we now have seen first hand how drastic a need there is for a total rebuild.

If one of Favre, Valverde or Garcia came in and made us compact and ground out results to see us get 4th the very obvious cracks would be covered in a thin layer of paper. The club, Rangnick and Ten Hag now know that recruitment is going to be absolutely key. Instead of the old 'every player starts again with a new chance to impress me' line that would have been trotted out most likely at the clubs behest, we now have Rangnick consulting the club on exactly where our frailties lie.

Ole tried to start pressing come March of last season, our performances dramatically dropped. Rangnick has come in and tried to instil pressing, our performances dropped further. We have been forced into action.
 
macheda14 said:
Which would have probably been worse for us in the long run.

It's a point that bears repeating. Our two frontrunners for the job were Poch and Ten Hag. Both managers employ an aggressive pressing system. We bought in an interim who is known for just that. The squad were shown to be absolutely lacking in their ability to employ a high press. Therefore we now have seen first hand how drastic a need there is for a total rebuild.

If one of Favre, Valverde or Garcia came in and made us compact and ground out results to see us get 4th the very obvious cracks would be covered in a thin layer of paper. The club, Rangnick and Ten Hag now know that recruitment is going to be absolutely key. Instead of the old 'every player starts again with a new chance to impress me' line that would have been trotted out most likely at the clubs behest, we now have Rangnick consulting the club on exactly where our frailties lie.

Ole tried to start pressing come March of last season, our performances dramatically dropped. Rangnick has come in and tried to instil pressing, our performances dropped further. We have been forced into action.
Click to expand...
Let's talk about Favre for example. He has a reputation of being obsessed of details and has experience in quickly stabilizing troubled teams. And he uses a bit more passive style which would have suited Oleball better than what Rangnick is doing.

I think adding more organisation and getting used to extremely detailed coaching sessions would have been good enough mid season to keep a chance for top 4.

Bringing in someone like ten Hag for next season who transforms the team to a more active style, but inherits a team that is used to that kind of high level coaching sessions would have not been a problem I think, at least not a big one.

Signing Rangnick as an interim meant doing everything at once and it is safe to say that he failed to reach the aims for this season, and we do not know if United as a club will profit from this failure in the long run.
 
flappyjay said:
The club were also right to sign wan Bissaka because I can't think of a better rb at the time we signed him if thats how you see things. He gets paid millions to think of who to sign and then appoint that person.
Click to expand...

You think any available manager who would have accepted being an interim manager for 6 months and then leaving would have done better and more importantly commanded the respect of this team? That person would have been a better person to hire than Ragnick who would also be continuing on in a consultancy role?

I can't think of a better interim manager to have than a manager who will continue on with the club upstairs. Those players stopped running for Ole, they stopped running for Ralf despite knowing he's staying on, they would stop running for favre or whoever people wanted as an interim. At the very least Ralf has the knowledge of the squad to help him in his consultancy role and handover with EtH, I think people are underestimating just how valuable that could be to the new manager.

Now if you're saying you'd rather have favre, garcia or some other manager as a permanent manager over EtH then....
 
flameinthesun said:
You think any available manager who would have accepted being an interim manager for 6 months and then leaving would have done better and more importantly commanded the respect of this team? That person would have been a better person to hire than Ragnick who would also be continuing on in a consultancy role?

I can't think of a better interim manager to have than a manager who will continue on with the club upstairs. Those players stopped running for Ole, they stopped running for Ralf despite knowing he's staying on, they would stop running for favre or whoever people wanted as an interim. At the very least Ralf has the knowledge of the squad to help him in his consultancy role and handover with EtH, I think people are underestimating just how valuable that could be to the new manager.

Now if you're saying you'd rather have favre, garcia or some other manager as a permanent manager over EtH then....
Click to expand...

Ralf himself asked for the consultancy role if I am not mistaken. Which means again Murtaugh wasn't thinking that far ahead. You also don't don't know how the players would have responded to a different manager. At some point they stopped running for Jose and then proceeded to put in the work during Ole's interim.
 
flappyjay said:
Ralf himself asked for the consultancy role if I am not mistaken. Which means again Murtaugh wasn't thinking that far ahead. You also don't don't know how the players would have responded to a different manager. At some point they stopped running for Jose and then proceeded to put in the work during Ole's interim.
Click to expand...

Dont think so. I think Ralf knew it was a temp gig and if he had done well, then it could potentially lead to a permanent role. He himself mentioned they it may be a possibility that he stayed as a manager beyond the initial period. So it was like he asked for the temp role.
 
flappyjay said:
Ralf himself asked for the consultancy role if I am not mistaken. Which means again Murtaugh wasn't thinking that far ahead. You also don't don't know how the players would have responded to a different manager. At some point they stopped running for Jose and then proceeded to put in the work during Ole's interim.
Click to expand...

From the beginning it was always said ralf would take on a consultancy role, even before he was officially announced as interim. From everything we have seen since then the club has done everything it said it would do in this regard i.e. Hire interim, keep on Ralf as consultant, hire a proven world class manager in EtH. Hence me saying I'm a little surprised that they have followed through with it. So I don't see how there is anything to get angry at Murtough about regarding this.

Regarding a different interim, maybe a different one would have gotten us top 4, either way that manager would still have had to deal with mason, the covid outbreak etc. For me this season I am not placing importance on finishing 4th or 6th. Yes it would be great to qualify for champs league but if not qualifying 4th leads to Ralf identifying the weak players and providing a much smoother transition to EtH then I will take that. The key for me is we must take this opportunity to clear out the players who have showm over the past 6 months they are either mentallly too weak for united or incapable of playing a pressing game.
 
VP89 said:
Anyone can say this in hindsight. Those managers are also risks too. Rangnick I think was brought in also because his view on the ground will enable better consultancy after the season. He's clearly being listened to quite heavily. This short term pain is arguably necessary to get the rebuild we really need. If another manager came I doubt they have the balls to say this entire squad needs rebuilding.
Click to expand...
the problem wasn't the interim manager, it as the amount of time he was interim for: most only have to deal with a handful of games. We, in our now customary arrogance, thought we could be different; that we were special. It was a continuation of appointing a former player as manager, despite the fact that failed at so many other clubs: leeds, liverpool, newcastle, to name but three. And it was a continuation of the dumb idea of giving Ole a new three-year deal when he should actually have been sacked months earlier
 
mitchmouse said:
the problem wasn't the interim manager, it as the amount of time he was interim for: most only have to deal with a handful of games. We, in our now customary arrogance, thought we could be different; that we were special. It was a continuation of appointing a former player as manager, despite the fact that failed at so many other clubs: leeds, liverpool, newcastle, to name but three. And it was a continuation of the dumb idea of giving Ole a new three-year deal when he should actually have been sacked months earlier
Click to expand...
A lot our own fans are contributing to that problem, and our ex players endorsing him.
 
mitchmouse said:
the problem wasn't the interim manager, it as the amount of time he was interim for: most only have to deal with a handful of games. We, in our now customary arrogance, thought we could be different; that we were special. It was a continuation of appointing a former player as manager, despite the fact that failed at so many other clubs: leeds, liverpool, newcastle, to name but three. And it was a continuation of the dumb idea of giving Ole a new three-year deal when he should actually have been sacked months earlier
Click to expand...

Are you saying we should have appointed a permanent manager out of the gate?
 
If we were going for just an interim one of the other candidates may have have possibly done better. However having Rangnick involved in the club is so valuable, I was always more excited about his role at the end of the season than as the interim manager.
 
flameinthesun said:
From the beginning it was always said ralf would take on a consultancy role, even before he was officially announced as interim. From everything we have seen since then the club has done everything it said it would do in this regard i.e. Hire interim, keep on Ralf as consultant, hire a proven world class manager in EtH. Hence me saying I'm a little surprised that they have followed through with it. So I don't see how there is anything to get angry at Murtough about regarding this.

Regarding a different interim, maybe a different one would have gotten us top 4, either way that manager would still have had to deal with mason, the covid outbreak etc. For me this season I am not placing importance on finishing 4th or 6th. Yes it would be great to qualify for champs league but if not qualifying 4th leads to Ralf identifying the weak players and providing a much smoother transition to EtH then I will take that. The key for me is we must take this opportunity to clear out the players who have showm over the past 6 months they are either mentallly too weak for united or incapable of playing a pressing game.
Click to expand...

I think what the poster was trying to say is that we only offered Ralf an interim manager role. But Ralf rejected the offer since he demanded more than being interim, which we end up improved the offer by offering him another 2 years in consultancy role. I think this was speculated by one of that journalist to defend his false claim when he denied that Ralf would join us as interim manager since he rejected the same Chelsea's offer last year. I think the poster was just believing with the speculation. Personally, I don't believe it since I think the journalist (can't believe his name) was only making things up trying to find excuses to hide himself being fraud.
 



I've asked this many times but I'll ask again with tangible evidence change is being made. Give Murtough and Fletcher a chance
 
Arnold's given Murtough control and he's making changes. Judge, Lawlor and Bout weren't his guys, so it seems he's got rid of them and will now bring his people in. Very similar to what he's done at academy/scouting and data analytics departments.
 
Adnan said:
Arnold's given Murtough control and he's making changes. Judge, Lawlor and Bout weren't his guys, so it seems he's got rid of them and will now bring his people in. Very similar to what he's done at academy/scouting and data analytics departments.
Click to expand...
No saying 'his guys' will be good enough, will Murtough be binned off by Arnold if its ends up their not? Only time will tell, I'm not getting carried away by some of these resignations as Judge shouldn't have been in a job in the first place and Lawlor/Bout clearly weren't doing a job.
 
pascell said:
No saying 'his guys' will be good enough, will Murtough be binned off by Arnold if its ends up their not? Only time will tell, I'm not getting carried away by some of these resignations as Judge shouldn't have been in a job in the first place and Lawlor/Bout clearly weren't doing a job.
Click to expand...

So we will now have people doing a job? It’s very positive news and clear evidence of a total restructuring and strategy
 
getting rid of judge is even bigger than shifting woodward Imo.

This is the muppet in charge of dishing out huge contracts and taking an age to get the ball moving on deals.
 
VP89 said:
So youre blaming him for hiring a manager as interim but cant think of a single manager who is suited to the shower of shite squad we have.
Maybe the problem is the overpaid egos that refuse to work off the ball and not Murtough and Rangnick who are clearly trying to fix the mess left behind by Ed Woodward.
Click to expand...
But it's not our job to know. I like Rangnick but if he was only really hired in a firefighting role, then that is an epic fail on the part of Murtough.
 
jem said:
But it's not our job to know. I like Rangnick but if he was only really hired in a firefighting role, then that is an epic fail on the part of Murtough.
Click to expand...
It isnt. No caretaker option would have given tangible success with the situation.
 
Fletcher needs to be shown the door. The most useless person there is.
 
VP89 said:
It isnt. No caretaker option would have given tangible success with the situation.
Click to expand...
But bringing in someone who has been out of the on-field action for so long was a bit naive, in my opinion. If in fact he is listened (and I have my doubts,) then I will agree that bringing in Rangnick was an astute move. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.