Similar would have been said of Edwards at Liverpool before he became their sporting director. Murtough may have been a terrible choice but if you go purely by his job previous job roles, it wasn't a crazy choice on paper.
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The moment EtH demanded full control over transfers, or any type of control except making some recommendations, was the moment Murtough should have ended the interview and look somewhere else.
It seems that all our managers want complete control which is fascinating considering that no other manager has that anywhere else. Which really makes you wonder why we need murtough in the first place given the circumstances
He is supposed to be a technical director and is responsible for the types of player we recruit and that they are aligned with the philosophy and direction of the club. In 2 years he's done a shite job and is obviously a yes man to Murtough.
No he’s not, his job is to help with recruitment of the youth team and see them transition from reserves to first team, which Garnacho, Mainoo, Hannibal and Elanga all have in recent years.
I still don't understand what Fletcher does as TD that isn't just part of the jobs the academy head(s) and youth team managers do.
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It's a huge issue and also a reason the managers having this responsibility have failed miserably in recruitment and their ability in team building correspondence ages like milk. The director of football should be the only one with deliberation to the scouts making decisions on player purchases. This decision should then be fed down to the manager so it's a top-down process.
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It feels to me like a hot potato that our current seniors want to throw to the manager as quickly as possible.
It's just shirking responsibility.
You’re wrong. Go and read his job description. You’ve been swayed by the job title they stupidly gave him
His job is to liaise with the reserve structures and recommend which players are ready fit the beak through and which players aren’t. Occasionally he helps out with coaching as he’s doing his badges. He has no sway over who the first team sign. You’re all falling for his job title, complete nonsense which has been explained numerous times
From the outside I struggle to understand Fletchers role. He's in what you would assume is a backroom staff role, yet for large parts he was on the bench under Ole and involved on a match day. I can't remember but there may have been times he was stood on the sidelines. Since ETH came in he is now nowhere to be seen, so has his role changed? It certainly feels like we've created and recreated a position to fit him in.
Even if you go off his job overview given by posters on here, to help transition youth team players to the first team...is a position necessary for that? Surely that should be part of the managers remit or be decided through discussions with various members of staff. Perhaps a decision that should be made as a collective. It just feels like he's found a gap and they've slotted him in. I could be wrong, it's not something I spend much time thinking about. But it did intrigue me when our 'Technical Director' was sat on the bench, giving out instructions and arguing with supporters.
I know he's not a proper TD.
I don't understand why he's doing the liaising between the senior and reserve structures when we (presumably) have an academy head and reserve/youth team managers who should surely be doing that?
Yes, this is my point.
I love Fletcher, but I highly doubt he's an effective first team coach.
I also don't see why he's needed in this specific backroom role when the duties are surely within the remit of the academy head(s) and the youth/reserve manager/coaches.
Or at least used it as a point for negotiation rather than completely caved. If a compromise wasn't possible, then walk away.
Just shows a complete lack of gravitas and experience. It's not like Murtough wasn't in a strong negotiating position, considering it's one of the biggest jobs in football and would have meant doubling ETH's salary.
I'll never forget the leak (probably from Murtough/Arnold because they misguidedly thought it was positive PR) that Fletcher & Murtough were 'stunned' on the flight back from Amsterdam, as ETH had just completely deconstructed and critiqued our sporting strategy That says it all, out of their depth.
He’s doing the job Nicky butt did. I get the impression the club feel a former player is there to smooth the way, someone who’s done it before etc.
He’s been doing a good job yet some calling for his head like he’s got some sway over the first team. It makes no sense
He’s not a full time coach, he does a bit because he needs it for his badges. He was used mostly when Rangnick couldn’t get enough coaches, a kind of handyman. But his day to day is the transition of kids to first team, which he has been doing well
Nicky Butt was the academy head and then moved into this weird role.
Has he been doing a good job?
It's not like we haven't seen youth players moving into the senior side before he got the job.
Under his period, Hannibal, Garnacho, Mainoo, etc. I’d say he’s been doing his job
Regardless if you agree or not, I want to dispel this narrative that’s been spread that he has some influence over first team buys or results. That’s on murtough and ETH
I didn't say he had any sway over the first team.
I just said I don't understand why we need a specific job role to do this liaising when we have an academy head and youth/reserve managers, who are all well placed to suggest a player is ready for senior involvement.
Do any other clubs have this?
That's not his job at all. You, and many others, are simply confused by his job title.
From memory he was only on the sideline when Rangnick was here, and that was because he was helping out after both Carrick and McKenna left and Rangnick couldn't get other coaches in on such a short timeframe. Maybe he was sitting on the bench before that with the rest of the staff, I'm not sure, but he was only on the sideline getting involved during Rangnick's time.
Why wouldn't that position be necessary? Clubs these days have people filling all kinds of specialised roles, so having somebody with personal experience who helps the transition between the youth and the first team (and also being the main one keeping in communication with the players we loan out) is hardly surprising.
I remember when Murtough and Fletcher were hired in their respective roles. Most people in here were celebrating as if we won the treble. I was one of the few who voiced my concern and here is why
A- Neither guys had no experience in their respective field. That's not necessarily a deal breaker at a club with a proven and successful setup but it doesn't make sense at a club with no structure and whose constantly tanking. We're having a blind leading the blind scenario here.
B- Fletcher's rise to prominence from youth coach to first team coach right to a director in matter of months was iffy as hell. As said I have no problem with the club mentoring people. However no one should go from U16 to technical director in matter of months especially under the conditions mentioned at A.
In few words it looked like that everything was in line to the previous modus operandi were inexperienced people were promoted from the inside into jobs they have no experience in. A sort of a football version of Cosa Nostra were Omerta ruled supreme
In time we've been fed PR spins like the ones were Murtough was hiring an army of data analysts. Such appointments were used as a stick to hit the skeptical. Yet, guess what? Nothing really changed. We still overspend in terms of fees and salaries, the manager keeps calling the shots on transfers and we still suffer of waves upon waves of injuries. The manager wants full control is hilarious especially considering that a DOF (ie Overmars) had been key to ETH's success. So why on earth would ETH want to take more responsibility in a far demanding job were everything is scrutinized to the ridiculous?
United keeps talking about 'restructuring', 'rebuilding' and a '3 year plan'. In my opinion there was never a restructuring in the first place. The Glazers are so undecisive and so conservative business wise that Woodward (former PWC and a former University of Bristol student) was replaced by Arnold (former PWC and former University of Bristol student). Murtough (former Everton) whose been throughout all the mess post SAF was appointed DOF with Harrison (former Everton) was appointed as director of operations while Fletcher (former Manchester United player) saw his entrance and rise in prominence during Ole's (former Manchester United) time. Out of all six people only Ole had previous experience in the job and it was done at Cardiff (were he tanked spectacularly) and Molde. That doesn't look like a rebuilding to me
You’re missing what the club feel is important, being a liaison for the player, making sure he understands the expectations etc. it’s not just a matter of someone telling ETH. I think it’s done like that to free the first team coaches up. Fletcher goes and watches reserve matches, talks to those coaches and gives updates to the first team mgt group
There should not have been any compromise there. The idea of a compromise there itself would be laughably wrong.
The manager (head coach) manages/coaches the team, makes the tactics, identifies the positions the team is not that strong and needs improvement, and chooses the players that play. The club signs players to improve the team. These two things should be kept separated, like any other normal club, be it giants like Real and Barcelona, or clubs like Brighton do. There should be absolutely no room for negotiations here. Any manager who wants to become God-manager at this club should not be offered the position in the first place, same as he wouldn't get such a position in virtually no other big (or even not that big) club.
Hopefully Fletch is OK in this culling.
I don't think he'll be sacked and I am very confident that he'll survive the year to the very least
I still don't see how it requires it's own position, and still don't really understand what he's doing that we already wouldn't have been doing before the role was created for Butt.
Why do the people involved in football operations, like Arnold, Murtough, and Fletcher, rarely make public statements? Why is it solely the manager's responsibility to handle all communications? I would like to hear from the club's CEO / DOF about their vision, philosophy, and strategy for improving the club. In contrast, Florentino Perez is always visible in the media, even appearing for hour-long interviews on shows like Chiringuito. Laporta follows a similar approach. In Italy, figures like Agnelli, Moratti, and Berlusconi have never shied away from the media in the past, and currently their Directors of Football often engage in discussions. This proactive media engagement is conspicuously absent at Man Utd. After Fergie's departure, there's been a need for multiple individuals to step up and fill the vacuum.
Okay, you were still wrong though but if that helps you. Cool.
Pretty sure he's been on the bench since ETH has been here. He definitely was last season and this summer. I don't know about this season. He's likely reverted to being with the analysts who are sat away from the bench which he used to do under Ole.
His role isn't just the youth players function. He's also supposed to be part of the backroom staff that assists with recruitment but he has no power. Just a football person to give an opinion there.
It looks like John Murtough is going
Yeah this is a big difference in how United operate (or maybe even PL clubs operate) and how the continental clubs operate.
Conte at Spurs insisted that some of the questions (title ambitions and such) be aimed at Levy because he had a vision for that club and it was his job to explain that vision to the fans.
I’d guess because the club wanted to move away from the first team manager having to be the one that looks after everything
Why would Fletcher talk to the media?
Yeah would only be Murtough and Arnold outside of ETH who should be speaking.
But was the first team manager actually looking after that? It doesn't seem like he should have been.
If you said so. Cool
Good riddance!
If Arnold was in anyway competent, Murtough's head should've been on the chopping block after the FdJ saga and the resulting overpay for Casemiro and Antony. It can't be a results business for the managers but not the DOFs.
I am really glad that Jimmy B isn’t wasting any time clearing out the underperforming upper management.
If he can do the same with the medical team also