Manchester United v Manchester City

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just so I'm clear, their players are coming out in the media, saying they can't believe how awful we are.
Some critics in the media have been replaying Denis Law's goal from 1974 to rub it in...
And some of our fans want us to be beaten...

This is messed up
 
.Rossi said:
Just so I'm clear, their players are coming out in the media, saying they can't believe how awful we are.
Some critics in the media have been replaying Denis Law's goal from 1974 to rub it in...
And some of our fans want us to be beaten...

This is messed up
Click to expand...

Aint it just. without wanting to make my second post in the mains a negative one I just cannot get my head around anyone wanting us to lose to City. I suspect local rivalry means little to some who aren't in fact local but the Magoos are looking to usurp us full time and that needs stamping out.

I'm an ABC when it comes to these matters - Anyone But City. Even Liverpool I'm afraid to say.
 
City think they are going to walk this one...

We need to put them in their place.

Tbh, they have dominated most games we have played against them in recent times. I hope we batter them
 
Barca84 said:
Aint it just. without wanting to make my second post in the mains a negative one I just cannot get my head around anyone wanting us to lose to City. I suspect local rivalry means little to some who aren't in fact local but the Magoos are looking to usurp us full time and that needs stamping out.

I'm an ABC when it comes to these matters - Anyone But City. Even Liverpool I'm afraid to say.
Click to expand...

I don't get this worry about if we win, we'll be handing the league to Liverpool...

1st.) We're not going to win tonight!
2nd.) Even if we somehow manage to fluke a win, we had two games against Liverpool this year, in which we failed to show up against them! Beating City tonight is not the result that gives Liverpool the league!
3rd.) With that lot coming out saying how awful we are, how could that not make you angry and want to maul the cnuts?!!?
 
Lowkey said:
City think they are going to walk this one...

We need to put them in their place.

Tbh, they have dominated most games we have played against them in recent times. I hope we batter them
Click to expand...

1 win against them in 6 matches...I don't hold much hope. Even if we were flying in the league
 
What I am really worried about is that Aguero will not be a huge loss for City, as they have been firing those long-range rockets very precisely lately. Fellaini will have to do some huge job by marking Yaya Toure out of the game. DDG likely to get MotM vote.
 
Lu Tze said:
Throwing Nani into a derby when he's not played in 4 months, you people...aargh! He would be awful!
Click to expand...
One way to look at it is this derby is secondary to us at this point, a but if match fitness won't do him any harm, he's a potential match winner. Bayern in mind.
But yes I wouldn't start with him, certainly get him involved though if he's fit and ready.
 
Fellaini can certainly match Toure's physical presence on the pitch. I'd say whoever wins this battle will win the game.
 
Jaybezia said:
Why funny? You don't think we'll man mark Toure?
Click to expand...

Oh of course....I've just seen nothing in Fellaini to even suggest he's up to it.

Lowkey said:
Fellaini can certainly match Toure's physical presence on the pitch. I'd say whoever wins this battle will win the game.
Click to expand...

He can? That's interesting because Steven Gerrard made bits of him last week and I've never seen a big man get brushed off the ball as easily as Fellaini so I don't really share that view
 
I say this in every 'big game'. If we persist with the tried and failed formula of lets try keep possession and dictate the tempo (a slow tempo may I add) we'll get hammered. We need to stamp our authority in the opening exchanges or face being on the back foot for the entire game.

The likes of City and Liverpool concede goals if teams give it a go. Sure they'll probably outscore most teams in the process in current form but generally speaking, they both have defensive frailties. My biggest issue with us remains as an inability to create chances in big games. The record against the rest of the top half is abysmal and is a key reason as to why we're not only out of the title race but out of the 4th place race.

The pattern of our season suggests we won't continue from where we left off at the weekend because that would be too obvious and too easy. I'd be very disappointed if Kagawa didn't play (And I've largely been against this sympathetic view for him this season) as he merits his place and I think City can be had with players who look to pass through them rather than trying and failing to pass around them. You can make a case for Valencia/Welbeck coming in for Young and Evans/Smalling/Rio in for Fletcher/Carrick, other than that the tinkering is unnecessary.

I think we'll regret playing Rooney and Welbeck up top, particularly if Rooney plays behind Welbeck.

Expect a loss but will give Moyes all the credit possible if he gets it right.
 
.Rossi said:
Oh of course....I've just seen nothing in Fellaini to even suggest he's up to it.
Click to expand...

Can't argue there, but I wouldn't say the same about Fletcher, we've seen him do it against Barca, albeit he was a different player a midfield 3 of Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini would be the best bet, with Rooney up top playing as a Trequartista, with two of Mata/Welbeck/Kagawa etc for the inside forwards
 
Lowkey said:
Fellaini can certainly match Toure's physical presence on the pitch. I'd say whoever wins this battle will win the game.
Click to expand...

That is wong on so many levels
5823e469642aa66c5f3ed53d727db50b-this-is-wong.jpg
 
.Rossi said:
Oh of course....I've just seen nothing in Fellaini to even suggest he's up to it.



He can? That's interesting because Steven Gerrard made bits of him last week and I've never seen a big man get brushed off the ball as easily as Fellaini so I don't really share that view
Click to expand...

What about the times at Everton where Fellaini matched up to Yaya well, or do they not count?
 
Jaybezia said:
Can't argue there, but I wouldn't say the same about Fletcher, we've seen him do it against Barca, albeit he was a different player a midfield 3 of Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini would be the best bet, with Rooney up top playing as a Trequartista, with two of Mata/Welbeck/Kagawa etc for the inside forwards
Click to expand...

Depends on the defence...If we had options back there, I'd get Phil Jones to mark him. Much more up for the physical side of things and when that happens, Toure does not wanna know
Lu Tze said:
What about the times at Everton where Fellaini matched up to Yaya well, or do they not count?
Click to expand...

What times?....The only time I've seen him absolutely dominate anyone was us. And we all know what we have been like in the last 4 years

Honestly, nowt against the guy but, if we play him up against Yaya, forget it! Game is over before a ball is even kicked. You talk about his physical presence, I've seen Mark Noble knock him easily off the ball and I've seen him go into hiding when Gerrard hit him with that clash of heads...Doesn't inspire me with confidence for a physical battle with Yaya Toure
 
I am not sure why we can learn from tonight's game in the context of how United are progressing.

If United get thumped, you could ask how did people expect things to change in the space of less then two weeks (since Liverpool loss)?. Even at that, United have a shockingly poor record against City over the last few seasons so the result on its own wouldn't really add anything to the argument that United are even worse under Moyes.

If United win , its a good scalp but it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of the season. Yes its a positive and it warrants acknowledgement, but it doesn't necessarily mean we have turned a corner.

A win or good performance for United would actually throw up more questions then answers, particularly in relation to RVP's future role.

Either way we have people sharpening their knives for another crack at Moyes. I don't think it matters what happens in tonights game, its just another opportunity for them to find a reason to have a go at him . .
 
Jaybezia said:
Can you re-call a match? I'd be interested to know..
Click to expand...

These reports don't specifically mention his performance against Yaya, but they were great performances against City..which clearly show he can happily go toe-to-toe with them.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/dec/02/manchester-city-everton-marouane-fellaini
MOTM Dec, 2012.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...teel-to-put-leaders-to-the-sword-6297717.html

MOTM Feb 2012.

Both reports specifically mention his dominating physical presence and his massive contribution to Everton's performances, of course, that means that Yaya will automatically beat us on his own...sure. Inexplicable.

He also got an assist against them in Everton's 2-0 win in 2013. Fellaini and Everton have beaten City more in the last 2 years than we have...seemingly.
 
Last edited:
Drummer said:
I am not sure why we can learn from tonight's game in the context of how United are progressing.

If United get thumped, you could ask how did people expect things to change in the space of less then two weeks (since Liverpool loss)?. Even at that, United have a shockingly poor record against City over the last few seasons so the result on its own wouldn't really add anything to the argument that United are even worse under Moyes.

If United win , its a good scalp but it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of the season. Yes its a positive and it warrants acknowledgement, but it doesn't necessarily mean we have turned a corner.

A win or good performance for United would actually throw up more questions then answers, particularly in relation to RVP's future role.

Either way we have people sharpening their knives for another crack at Moyes. I don't think it matters what happens in tonights game, its just another opportunity for them to find a reason to have a go at him . .
Click to expand...

Considering there are plenty of reasons to have a go at him and the fact we've only beaten City once since 2011, a loss is not a reason to have a go at him..................Until we see the team sheet :D
 
Lu Tze said:
These reports don't specifically mention his performance against Yaya, but they were great performances against City..which clearly show he can happily go toe-to-toe with them.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/dec/02/manchester-city-everton-marouane-fellaini
MOTM Dec, 2012.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...teel-to-put-leaders-to-the-sword-6297717.html

MOTM Feb 2012.

Both reports specifically mention his dominating physical presence and his massive contribution to Everton's performances, of course, that means that Yaya will automatically beat us on his own...sure. Inexplicable.
Click to expand...

Erm....He played up front in that game....Not in the middle of the pitch against Yaya Toure...That's what we are talking about.

So if, going by what your saying, we should play him up front tonight
 
.Rossi said:
Erm....He played up front in that game....Not in the middle of the pitch against Yaya Toure...That's what we are talking about.

So if, going by what your saying, we should play him up front tonight
Click to expand...

So if Darron Gibson and Leon Osman can handle Yaya, Fellaini can't? .......:lol:
 
Lu Tze said:
These reports don't specifically mention his performance against Yaya, but they were great performances against City..which clearly show he can happily go toe-to-toe with them.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/dec/02/manchester-city-everton-marouane-fellaini
MOTM Dec, 2012.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...teel-to-put-leaders-to-the-sword-6297717.html

MOTM Feb 2012.

Both reports specifically mention his dominating physical presence and his massive contribution to Everton's performances, of course, that means that Yaya will automatically beat us on his own...sure. Inexplicable.
Click to expand...


Toure didn't play in the 2nd game you'vel inked to. Bit unfair to say Fellaini played better than him if he wasn't even on the pitch...

For reference they've only played vs each other 3 times. Once where your article says Fellaini was motm and one of the other times Yaya Toure scored so I don't think Fellaini "marked him out the game."

I'm not for one minute suggesting Toure will dominate Fellaini tonight but I don't think history suggests Fellaini has the better of him or anything.
 
Oggmonster said:
Toure didn't play in the 2nd game you'vel inked to. Bit unfair to say Fellaini played better than him if he wasn't even on the pitch...

For reference they've only played vs each other 3 times. Once where your article says Fellaini was motm and one of the other times Yaya Toure scored so I don't think Fellaini "marked him out the game."

I'm not for one minute suggesting Toure will dominate Fellaini tonight but I don't think history suggests Fellaini has the better of him or anything.
Click to expand...

Quote where I said Fellaini marked him out of the game. I think on a good day Fellaini can contribute to stopping Yaya, considering he(and Moyes) have beaten City more than we have in the last 2 years, and he's got MOTM performances against them, feck me right?
 
Lu Tze said:
So if Darron Gibson and Leon Osman can handle Yaya, Fellaini can't? .......:lol:
Click to expand...

Well considering smaller men like Mark Noble and Steven Gerrard can handle Fellaini then, yeah.
Lu Tze said:
Quote where I said Fellaini marked him out of the game. I think on a good day Fellaini can contribute to stopping Yaya, considering he(and Moyes) have beaten City more than we have in the last 2 years, and he's got MOTM performances against them, feck me right?
Click to expand...

And he played up front against them!! So basically what you are saying is, play him up front as he got MOTM performances against them when he played there!....Where is there anything to even back up your claims that he can handle Yaya Toure?
 
.Rossi said:
Well considering smaller men like Mark Noble and Steven Gerrard can handle Fellaini then, yeah.
And he played up front against them!! So basically what you are saying is, play him up front as he got MOTM performances against them when he played there!....Where is there anything to even back up your claims that he can handle Yaya Toure?
Click to expand...

My logic goes something like; If Gibson and Osman can handle Yaya under Moyes's guidance, Fellaini certainly has the potential to, given that he's a better defensive player than both of them put together.
 
Lu Tze said:
Quote where I said Fellaini marked him out of the game. I think on a good day Fellaini can contribute to stopping Yaya, considering he(and Moyes) have beaten City more than we have in the last 2 years, and he's got MOTM performances against them, feck me right?
Click to expand...

Well fair enough you didn't say marked him out...you said....

Lu Tze said:
What about the times at Everton where Fellaini matched up to Yaya well, or do they not count?
Click to expand...

Again, you then linked to a game which one of the players didn't even play in as a comparison to how they match up to each other.

I hope Fellaini does mark him out the game tonight, just pointing out that it's a bit unfair games to use as a comparison for Toure really.

Your argument is flawed about Gibson and Osman to, Toure has had some shockers in the past against worse players than that but it doesn't mean he'll always play like that. He has a habit of sometimes not being that arsed in smaller games, in big games that doesn't tend to happen much.
 
Lu Tze said:
My logic goes something like; If Gibson and Osman can handle Yaya under Moyes's guidance, Fellaini certainly has the potential to, given that he's a better defensive player than both of them put together.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean handle Yaya Toure...

Yes, that is, in theory, a fair enough assessment..However, watching Fellaini in the derby earlier on in the season and watching him since, I have zero faith in him going into a physical battle with Yaya Toure...He bottled out of a battle with Steven Gerrard and I saw him at the weekend pull out of 50-50 challenges...

It sounds like I'm having a go at him, and believe me I don't mean to sound like that but, if he's given the job to mark Yaya Toure, then there is only one way this game is going
 
Oggmonster said:
Well fair enough you didn't say marked him out...you said....



Again, you then linked to a game which one of the players didn't even play in as a comparison to how they match up to each other.

I hope Fellaini does mark him out the game tonight, just pointing out that it's a bit unfair games to use as a comparison for Toure really.

Your argument is flawed about Gibson and Osman to, Toure has had some shockers in the past against worse players than that but it doesn't mean he'll always play like that. He has a habit of sometimes not being that arsed in smaller games, in big games that doesn't tend to happen much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I should have said Fellaini matched up well against City, my bad. I think he's got the potential to be a big player in these games given his previous pedigree in the fixture and Moyes's record of getting the better of City(at Everton). I'm NOT saying Fellaini will automatically dominate Yaya. Yaya is a far superior player, obviously, but I think Fellaini has the potential to reduce his influence on a good day.
 
I'd love one, just one Manc derby where we don't get completely obliterated in midfield.
 
.Rossi said:
Aye 2009...Although, we dominated them in the two LC matches in 2010
Click to expand...

Forgot about those. Still, we had a fit Fletch then, and City weren't yet on the cusp of getting exceptional. They were barely finishing 4th, in fact was that the season they had that last game shootout with Spurs?
 
I'd go for the same team as against West Ham bar putting Welbeck in for Young and keeping Welbeck out wide, plus a real center back in for Carrick if possible.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure the West Ham game was Moyes resting players so we'll probably see Valencia in for Kagawa, Rooney behind Welbeck, and Mata out wide.
 
Jaybezia said:
It's irrelevant, Fletcher isn't the player he was... out of interest how would you line up?
Click to expand...

Depends....If, and it's a big if, we have a few defenders back, I'd go

De Gea
Rafael,Evans,Smalling,Evra
Carrick,Jones
Kagawa, Mata, Welbeck
Rooney


Rooney would need to drop back in midfield to help Jones and Carrick deal with the treat of Silva and Navas. Jones can match up with Toure in terms of the physical aspect and when that happens, Toure does not want to know. Kompany has been positionaly suspect all year, which makes Mata and Kagawa easy choices as they have a creative eye for a pass that can split their defence wide open
 
2 Man Midfield said:
Forgot about those. Still, we had a fit Fletch then, and City weren't yet on the cusp of getting exceptional. They were barely finishing 4th, in fact was that the season they had that last game shootout with Spurs?
Click to expand...

I think you're right it was. Seems so long ago when Crouch scored and we were laughing at them
 
@.Rossi

I like that, can't disagree with the back 5, Not sure If I like the idea of Kagawa playing as he's extremely lightweight unfortunately, I'd prefer Valencia, Rafael seems to have an understanding with him and I'd imagine he'd be more inclined to help out defending.

Another ? for me is Carrick strangely, we haven't seen the best of him in midfield this season, his best game came in CB :lol: I'd maybe opt for one of Fletcher/Fell alongside Jones (If he's fit) which I realise has less finesse than Lurch from the Adams family but it's the only way I see us A) compensating for our weakest position and B) Nullifying their strongest..

EDIT: I'm actually going to change my mind and stick with your choice of Kagawa as If i go for double bruiser in the centre, we need a creative outlet and Kagawa > Valencia for that all day long...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.