Manchester United Vs Bayer Leverkusen

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I think it is crucial we win this given the group so we might see only a couple of changes

Evans for Rio, Fellaini to start and I hope Kagawa plays and has a great game - I'd like to see

DDG
Rafa/Evans/Vidic/Evra
Carrick/Fellaini
Nani/Rooney/Kagawa
RVP

Get a couple of goals and rest a few like RVP/Carrick- need a great start
 
--------------De Gea----------------
Fabio------Rio------Vidic-------Evra
---------Carrick----Fellaini----------
Nani----------Rooney-------Kagawa
--------------Van Persie-------------

Subs: Lindegaard, Evans, Anderson, Januzaj, Zaha, Welbeck, Chicharito.

Januzaj's not in the CL squad .... he's in the u21 CL squad
 
It'll be:

De Gea

Fabio
Evans
Vidic
Evra

Carrick
Cleverley

Valencia
Giggs
Welbeck

Van Persie
 
I think he can be registered 24hrs before a game. But he can only play a max of 2 group games in the CL for the first team because I think if he plays 3 he will be disqualified fron the U19s youth league.
 
It's without doubt that Giggs will start this one so any lineups without him in will be wrong.
 
Moyes might prefer to use Giggs' experience in the derby.


Hope not, I imagine Welbeck is very likely to play from the left if fit so think we'll need someone who's gonna stretch them on the right.
 
----------Ddg----------
Fabio-Evans-Smalling-Evra
------Fellaini-Carrick----
Nani-----Rooney-----Kagawa
-------Hernandez----------

Make it happen Moyes!
 
Moyes might prefer to use Giggs' experience in the derby.
I think he'll start both games. He's had a long rest as he doesn't take part in international anymore and he could be crucial in both games.
 
Would love to see Kagawa, Nani, Evans and Chicharito get starts. Resting some of the lads and giving others a chanve without any huge drop in quality.
 
I can't see him starting both, I may be wrong but I don't think he's started a midweek game and a game the following weekend for quite some time?
If it's one or another then I imagine he'll play against Leverkusen, otherwise it wouldn't have made sense to rest him against Palace if he weren't going to play mid-week. Then again he'll be invaluable against City at the weekend, I don't really know.
 
If it's one or another then I imagine he'll play against Leverkusen, otherwise it wouldn't have made sense to rest him against Palace if he weren't going to play mid-week. Then again he'll be invaluable against City at the weekend, I don't really know.
I wouldn't start him in either game, we have a very experienced squad and he isn't in the best of form at the moment. He started last season poorly too before becoming our best winger in the latter half of the season. However, I can see why Moyes would start him, he trusts him, and that's a big thing for a manager.
 
I thought I write a little bit about Leverkusen so far this season. They will probably play a 433 and most likely sit deep and try to attack on the counter with their quick wide players, Sam and Son. Last season they struggled when the opponent sat deep. They still lack creativity in the center imo, even though they improved their possession game but most likely that won't be important for this game anyway. United really needs to start with a win, imo.

I think the line-up will be:

-- Son ------- Kießling ------- Sam ---
------ Rolfes - Reinartz - Bender ------
- Boenisch - Spahic - Toprak - Donati -
--------------- Leno -----------------

Bender is still in doubt for the game, Castro would replace him or might play anyway instead of Rolfes. Leftback is imo the weak link, Stafylidis could play there and looks like a good talent, but I doubt Hyypiä will risk playing him and go with the more experienced Boenisch. Spahic and Donati both look surprisingly good so far in defense. Sydney Sam had a brilliant start to the season with 6 goals and 4 assists in 6 games (5 league games, 1 cup game) and was rewarded with his first cap for Germany this week. Son is new to the team, had a few great moments but probably needs more time to adjust. Kießling's development in the last years is really remarkable. He was top scorer last season with 25 goals and 10 assists in 34 games and started this season equally great with 4 goals and 3 assists in 5 league games.

A few highlight videos of league games this season:

Stuttgart - Leverkusen:


Leverkusen - Gladbach:
 
This is going to be really tough. i can see them being hard to break down, and ready to hurt United on the break. Nani will be missed.
 
This is going to be really tough. i can see them being hard to break down, and ready to hurt United on the break. Nani will be missed.

yeah I agree

it is Moyes first big European test for us - I don't think he'll take too many chances

This is the proverbial banana skin and with tough aways in our group we need to win our home games

be good to have a good performance coming into the Derby as well
 
How do you rate this Leverkusen team?

EDIT: Btw they are managed by one Sami Hyypia. Will be odd seeing him on the touchline.

This will be a tad longer, because I will touch the most basic areas and give a short outline of each of them.

General:

Bayer Leverkusen is currently probably the third strongest German team and main rival of Schalke 04 for the 3rd CL spot. Their biggest strength is that they have a very well rounded and balanced squad. They have no real star players with the exception of maybe Lars Bender, whom I will describe later on, but have on every positions except the FB, who most would describe as good. Still, the difference in quality between them and the two German major powers Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund is significant.

Formation/tactics:

Their general system is a 4-3-2-1, something that is often called "Tannenbaum"(fir tree?)-formation in Germany. They look defensive on paper and it does make them very compact, but offensively they transforms in a 4-1-4-1 with the two CMs moving up and the DM acting as an anchor.

Coaching:

Last season they ran a pretty unique project with having not one but two head coaches: the (former, now once again) youth coach Sascha Lewandowski and the current coach Sami Hyypiä. It worked out pretty well, but they still decided to split up for this season. Hyypiä is a no nonsense coach, who seemingly realy dislikes interacting with the press/media, but is full of competence. Makes very rarely tactical mistakes and is well liked by his players. In short a quality coach.

Key players/ players to look out for:

Lars Bender (CM): Like I said before, if you want to call one of their players a star, it would be the older Bender twin. He is their vice captain and most important lead player. Extremely well rounded with no glaring weakness. Potential world class player, who is unlucky that Germany is so well equiped in his position.

Stefan Kießling (CF): Their main attack source. Very reliable striker with very good instinct. He is also in the form of his life coming from a great season (25 goals, 10 assists), when he won the goal cannon, edging out Robert Lewandowski. He also already scored 5 goals in this season. Underrated in my book, mainly because he is for whatever reason not in the national team despite being Germany´s best striker in the last season. But then again, he is not the only case of being ignored by our national "coach" depite showing true class (*cough* Weidenfeller *cough*).

Heung-Min Son (LW/RW): Their biggest signing this summer and replacement of the departed Andre Schürrle. He is also pretty similar to him. Limited player, but what he does, he does well. Good pace and very good shooting. He is also known for scoring some really cracking goals from outside the box. A player, whom you don´t want to give space.

Gonzalo Castro (CM): Former full back, who was turned to a midfielder. Was considered as an eternal talent, but made a big step forward when he changed positions. The most offensive of the 3 man midfield (can also play as winger) and a good crosser.

Bernd Leno (GK): The Nr. 1 of Germany´s U 21. He is less spectacular than Marc-Andre Ter-Stegen, but more reliable and consistent. A very good shot stopper, who has all the tools to become world class one day. Still a good way off that, though.


Current form:

Leverkusen is right now 3rd in the league with 4 wins and 1 loss. The one loss was against main rival Schalke 04, but that does not say much. That game was a mixture of several Leverkusen players having off days and Schalke receiving a boost from signing Kevin-Prince Boateng a few days earlier. They overall look very good and hungry to play CL again. They could potentially pose problems to United, because they don´t offer much space to the opponent due to their compact formation. A lot will come down to the wingers in this games, because their weakest area are their FB. If United can use the width of the pitch well, then it is their game to win. Taking all positive things of Leverkusen into account, United is still the clear favourite. They should not underestimate Leverkusen, though.
 
Thanks Sphaero, good read.

Btw, agreed on Weidenfeller/Bender & Kiessling points. They should be in & around that very strong German squad.

Looking forward to a good match this week.

-------------------DDG

Fabio--------Evans----Vidic-------Evra

-------------Carrick---Fellaini

Valencia-------Rooney----------Kagawa/Welbeck

--------------------RvP
 
Watch out for Leverkusen's Sidney Sam & Son - both on fire this season so far, quick, tricky players. Stefan Kießling's always a threat too.

2-1 United.
One of the best counter attack side in Germany.. Solid with a deadly striker and lightning quick forward players. 3-1 United
 
Excellent post Sphaero - seems the game could be very interesting, and a solid test for how well our team can raise themselves against such a challenging European side.
 
David​
Chris-----Johnny-----Phil-----Fabio​
Maroune-----Tom​
Antonio-----Shinji-----Danny​
Javier​
 
Their general system is a 4-3-2-1, something that is often called "Tannenbaum"(fir tree?)-formation in Germany. They look defensive on paper and it does make them very compact, but offensively they transforms in a 4-1-4-1 with the two CMs moving up and the DM acting as an anchor.

I know some people in Germany call their system a 4321, but imo it's a pretty standard 433 with a few creative defensive concepts. In possession Sam and Son are clearly wide forwards and rarely form a line with 2 of the central midfielders to make it a 4141. In defense it's often a 451, Son and Sam stay out wide and help the fullbacks defensively. The 4321 or "Tannenbaum" in German as far as I know had usually 2 more creative players behind the striker and the central midfielders helped out defensively on the flanks.

Gonzalo Castro (CM): Former full back, who was turned to a midfielder. Was considered as an eternal talent, but made a big step forward when he changed positions. The most offensive of the 3 man midfield (can also play as winger) and a good crosser.
Apparently Castro is injured and didn't travel to England.
 
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