Yeah, that seems fair enough. He didn't look a very good full back yesterday. If he's been bought in as a CB, that's what he should be judged on.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah, that seems fair enough. He didn't look a very good full back yesterday. If he's been bought in as a CB, that's what he should be judged on.
No, we'd say things like the second and third bolded bits. We'd criticize and analyse performances. We wouldn't make sweeping conclusions about players' lack of suitability for their main position on the basis of one performance away from home in a new league. There's a lot of discussion that can happen without that.
Of course we can make sweeping conclusions, we're unimportant football fans on the Internet - stop being so self-important. I was raging after the game yesterday, as I'm sure a number of other United fans were - it was never going to be the time for sensible, balanced analysis. All power to you for being so level-headed.
In the cold light of day, of course he should be given time, and he will be.
I thought that once Evans was injured, LvG was going to bring on Shaw and move Rojo into the centre.
Awful game from him yesterday but he's still adjusting, I think he has the makings of a great CB.
Awful game from him yesterday but he's still adjusting, I think he has the makings of a great CB.
People are being extremely harsh on the lad. Do I need to remind how piss poor Vidic and Evra were initially?
Two days ago: Rojo has a great attitude, gets stuck in, will be a fan favourite
Now: Rojo has a terrible attitude, spineless, can't believe we didn't buy any defenders
The lad's played two games.
Now: Rojo has a terrible attitude, spineless, can't believe we didn't buy any defenders
The lad's played two games.
Not everyone will do an Evra or Vidic. Obertan and Bebe were shite as well...and stayed shite.
He was rubbish yesterday, no harm in saying that. Hopefully he replaces Blackett at CB and Shaw plays at LB. That will be the time to judge him.
Lol gotta love the internet.
It's still this guy and one of the clowns as a support-cast for the two man centre-back partnership at the moment. Since our defenders don't really talk to each other ( other than in hospital ), I don't think that lack of ability to speak English is a huge problem.
I did find it amusing that as soon as he signed, everyone instantly had him as the first name on the team sheet practically.
In truth, he isn't really a different kettle of fish from what we already have in Jones, Evans, Smalling or Shaw - young players with a lot of potential but not the finished product yet. I didn't really think he was the TYPE of player we should have gone for - we could have done with a leader, and older experienced defender (like Vidic) who was reliable and consistent, and could organise the younger defenders that we have.
Rojo will still have a place in the squad I expect, but to me he really seems like he will just end up as a squad player for a few years before moving on. I don't see why we would or should place our trust in him ahead of our home grown defenders.
In truth, he isn't really a different kettle of fish from what we already have in Jones, Evans, Smalling or Shaw - young players with a lot of potential but not the finished product yet. I didn't really think he was the TYPE of player we should have gone for - we could have done with a leader, and older experienced defender (like Vidic) who was reliable and consistent, and could organise the younger defenders that we have.
Rojo will still have a place in the squad I expect, but to me he really seems like he will just end up as a squad player for a few years before moving on. I don't see why we would or should place our trust in him ahead of our home grown defenders.
World cup final and contributed to them getting there? Bit of a difference to our current crop. Forums are ridiculous. We lose, hes no better than we got. So you've come to that conclusion in one game. Send your CV to LVG. You would save him millions if you can make that judgement in one game. Remember Vidic and Evra's first few games? What if Fergie went for a more established CB or LB instead of Evra and Vidic...what then? Or didnt trust Rio who was prone for making mistakes as a young player?
He's different to the others as they have had their chance and still not improved, hes just come through the door.
Zzzzz
Not everyone is Evra and Vidic, unfortunately.
Rojo might be just through the door here but he has played football before. He is a typical World Cup signing. He may continue to show the form that got Argentins to the final, he may not. I don't think his performances at Sporting put him in the top tier of promising defenders in Europe.
I don't think he offers anything more than what we have in Smalling, Evans, Jones and Shaw - except that those four are British and therefore more likely to stay, and can count towards our homegrown count.
In the scenario we were in this summer, there is no doubt we should have bought an experienced, older, reliable CB rather than another young prospect, when looking at the players we already had. I don't see how that is open for debate.
we'll see, he hasnt played as a CB for us, maybe he'll come good.
Nevertheless we should go for a experienced quality CB in january TW.
ZZZZZZ
At the moment I trust a manager thats won everything in the game than a Monday morning manager. Lets be sensible rather than knee jerk after a lose and see how he shapes up after more that 2 games. Let common sense prevail. The point is (unlike you obviously) we cant all hit the ground running and we were not all born this big.
I would put more trust in scarecrows sticked into ground around 10th yard in the box than in our 'homegrown defenders'.
Actually, that's pretty harsh on Blackett, I like him. So everybody bar Blackett.
Thought this analysis was interesting:
So you agree with LVGs substitutions yesterday?
You agree with dropping Mata?
By your logic there we may as well close down the forum because there can be no debate, because LVG is utterly perfect and no decision he makes can be open to criticism or discussion.
I can forgive Rojo some errors, as I can Blackett. They are both young and new to United.
I do think Rojo has a natural instinct to get forward - I remember him marauding down the flanks for Argentina during the World Cup too - and I think the only way to curb this is to play him at CB, apparently HIS preferred position, and have Shaw play at LB.
I do think Rojo has a natural instinct to get forward - I remember him marauding down the flanks for Argentina during the World Cup too - and I think the only way to curb this is to play him at CB, apparently HIS preferred position, and have Shaw play at LB.
Only when they are balanced and not based on a knee jerk reaction to a defeat. Hindsight is an exact science that many on here have the privilege to. Unfortunately he hasn't. We can all dine out on decisions when they go wrong.....
Very poor yesterday, though seems to have been told to attack at will which when playing against 3 up front is clearly dangerous.
I am worried that he seems to have developed a reputation as a player mostly on the back of a world cup, which is always a concern for me. I know Sly says he did well at Sporting last year, but well enough to be our replacement for Vidic or Ferdinand? I have my doubts.
Fair enough that we need to see him as a CB though; I get that.
I am worried that he seems to have developed a reputation as a player mostly on the back of a world cup, which is always a concern for me. I know Sly says he did well at Sporting last year, but well enough to be our replacement for Vidic or Ferdinand? I have my doubts.
Fair enough that we need to see him as a CB though; I get that.
I have the same doubts and also I can't see a hothead be the composed leader we need for our back four, which is sorely missing in leadership.
But - his reputation as a CB's got nothing to do with a decent World Cup. He played as an LB for Argentina but CB is his position, says the guys who've watched him, and I do hope that's where we've bought him to play.
He doesn't look like a typical CB though... let's see.
We can't say that until we see him there in my opinion, but I kinda know what you mean.
I've never been confident in Rojo's signing after seeing his disastrous performances, predominately at centre half, for Spartak Moscow. I had some hope that he'd have improved significantly after seemingly progressing well in Lisbon, however it's the same old story in terms of positioning and persistently wanting to attack. He'd be decent enough back up, just like Buttner, but since his move to Europe I haven't seen anything to say that he's worth pinning hopes on to become a regular first team player.
Our own David Luiz?
Those screen caps don't really say anything at all because full backs can get caught up the pitch at any time for attacking teams. Obviously he did have a stinker and looked very uncomfortable throughout.
I don't understand how you can interpret what I said as knee jerk. Rojo is not a world class defender; he is young and has potential.
This means he is roughly in the same bracket as our current lads who are also not world class defenders, but are young and have potential.
He looked like a center back playing at left-back in a new, fast league who had absolutely no protection from anyone else in the team due to our diamond formation and looked lost throughout.
Why do we keep buying players and not using them where we're supposed to fecking use them? A trend that's been around for years and years. Buy Shaw, a left back, and Rojo, a center back, bench Shaw and use Rojo at left back, use an inexperienced academy player at center back, get ripped to shreds.
Am I missing something here? Is it not completely fecking blatantly obvious in every way that having Rojo at CB over Blackett and Shaw at LB was like, fundamentally the obvious thing to do in every bloody way, yet once again we opt not to do it cause ... well feck it cause why not.
Why do we keep buying players and not using them where we're supposed to fecking use them? A trend that's been around for years and years. Buy Shaw, a left back, and Rojo, a center back, bench Shaw and use Rojo at left back, use an inexperienced academy player at center back, get ripped to shreds.
Am I missing something here? Is it not completely fecking blatantly obvious in every way that having Rojo at CB over Blackett and Shaw at LB was like, fundamentally the obvious thing to do in every bloody way, yet once again we opt not to do it cause ... well feck it cause why not.
Ok he was poor yesterday but give him chance to rectify it in the next game before writing him off, it's his 2nd game in a united shirt and his first away game. Leicester were always going to put us under immense pressure after that pen but yesterday will be a good learning curve for our defenders, let's move on to the next game now.
I should think Van Gaal knows now that Rojo at CB and Shaw at LB is the way to go.
Remember though that Shaw was available only for the first time after his injury and that Blackett has been rewarded by LVG for solid performances, which given his situation (young, first time in the starting 11) is in itself something we should be thankful for (we may have a young player who has the potential to make it at this level long term). That LVG gave youth a chance should be seen favorably given what United has always stood for, but also because that is what he has always done, and for the main with a great deal of success (Barca, Bayern).
It did seem bizarre. Rojo was woefully bad though, both defensively and offensively. Maybe Van Gaal has assessed him in training at CB and felt he wasn't a great option there. That doesn't explain why Shaw isn't playing though. He has zero choice next week other than to play Shaw LB and Rojo CB so I can't really see anything else.
Have not seen the game yesterday but Rojo is clearly better as CB. He might be able to Play as LB in case Shaw is injured but otherwise I hope he will be played in the Position he is best suited for.
Thought this analysis was interesting:
This is what I noticed too, going forwards at the wrong time and not spotting the danger developing behind. Worryingly, he also lost quite a few one on ones defensively, and forced Blackett to come and cover for him. Not exactly promising for a CB, but still, only his second match so need to see more.
I'm still angry about the defeat yesterday, but let's not get carried away with the "Rojo is crap" line.
There's room for criticism of Rojo, no question about it. He was caught too far up the pitch too often, especially in a situation where we had the lead, and a good flogging for that is in order. But it's also obvious that he's a quality defender and got taught a lesson yesterday about how quick and physical English football is. It simply takes time for young defenders to get used to the pace of the game in England, as Evra and Vidic proved when they first arrived at OT.
On another note, there was a lot of talk yesterday about the ball being over the line. I think it was, but I haven't seen any photos that prove or disprove that claim. Could some PLEASE (again, if it's already done elsewhere) post that photo? Thanks!
There's room for criticism of Rojo, no question about it. He was caught too far up the pitch too often, especially in a situation where we had the lead, and a good flogging for that is in order. But it's also obvious that he's a quality defender and got taught a lesson yesterday about how quick and physical English football is. It simply takes time for young defenders to get used to the pace of the game in England, as Evra and Vidic proved when they first arrived at OT.
On another note, there was a lot of talk yesterday about the ball being over the line. I think it was, but I haven't seen any photos that prove or disprove that claim. Could some PLEASE (again, if it's already done elsewhere) post that photo? Thanks!
Playing at cb will give him less of an incentive to go forward. That should help out our defense and his performances.
He's not a fullback.. If anyone is to blame for his mistakes yesterday it's LVG for bringing on a poor CB in Smalling instead of bringing on a natural LB in Shaw and putting Rojo in in proper position.
LVG likes to have a cb pair consisting of a right footer and left footer.
Evans is left footed too.
No he's not. He's right footed, but is really comfortable with his left foot. That is why he played lcb in a 3-5-2 during pre season. He was more equipped to handle that role compared to Jones and Smalling.
You're right I just checked him saying he feels better playing on the right of the defense. Its weird because he played left back as an auxiliary position.