Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He is suffering playing for us as his mentor doesnt have a clue what kind of football he wants us to play.. Great players look lost Carrick ect... Nani out for Giggs and Smalling for Rooney.. Guess Fellaini suffers from the same syndrome as hiss Boss lost in translation...
Not sure on his role with us, but I have never seen a player so lost in a football match as he was against Southampton, the game was too quick for him, when defending he couldn't get to the pitch of the ball to be effective, when in possession he got closed down and kept giving it away, I was embarrassed for him, he should have been taken off earlier.
Well I suggest you take an interest because he is playing in midfield everytime in a very strong Belgian team (albeit in a 4-3-3).
I dont dispute that he often played upfront for Everton (due to their lack of strikers), but he also often played deeper in midfield (especially towards the end of last season) when they had Anichebe fit to play the big man upfront. Phil Neville was rarely playing midfield for Everton last season (in fact he wasnt playing much at all in general which is why he retired) so you are making it up as you go along basically.
Agreed.
I don't think it is a coincidence that his best game for us was against Leverkusen where Rooney actually played as a #10 and was moving excellently between the lines.
I think he would look a lot better with us playing narrower and with an attacking midfielder. Our wide spacing makes it very tough on our midfielders and I believe that all of them would function better in a narrower setup.
I think he would look a lot better with us playing narrower and with an attacking midfielder. Our wide spacing makes it very tough on our midfielders and I believe that all of them would function better in a narrower setup.
I think this post was lost in translation.
With all due respect, that's a huge caveat in your argument. Part of the problem is that he's ill-equipped to play 4-4-2.
Why should that impact his game though?
He still played a defensive role that night and his best contributions were all ball winning, or at least conservative ball retention. He frequently gave the ball away that night when he was passing forwards - which was something many of us on here identified in the immediate aftermath of the game. He had a good game, but everyone said he needed to improve his passing.
It's really no excuse for his performance against Southampton, when he was not only poor with his attacking play and passing, but defensively too. I'm not one to over-criticise our players, but he was awful in that game.
Because it provides another passing option/an out ball.
You're right to say that Fellaini's defensive contribution was poor against Southampton, but he was also put under incessant pressure by them, which led to frequent concession of possession. Having no link-man really reduces our ability to retain possession.
Not sure what happened. He went from pleasantly surprising us against Leverkusen to playing like a headless chicken.
Was watching a fan being interviewed and what he said is that due to Fellaini's wrist injury, it's going to be hard for him to put his hand across players. He still looks nervous, but I think the problem is more tactical than psychological.
You keep banging this drum. Fellaini played in midfield just three times for Everton last season. That's even less than Rooney did for us. He was hardly in there "often" at all. Every other game he was behind Jelavic or Anichebe mostly in a 4-4-1-1. Gibson and Osman were the midfield pair of choice even when Neville was out.
Hi looked lost on Saturday. Cant remember him winning a tackle, his passing was poor and he was getting beaten in the air. Really unimpressed.
Would much prefer to see Tom Cleverley plating alongside Carrick.
Would much prefer to see Tom Cleverley plating alongside Carrick.
The condition of his hand should not effect his ability to pass a Football.
Personally I do not think Carrick / Fellaini can work in a 2 man midfield.
In theory it seemed a nice idea, but the fact is between the both of them they are just too slow as a pair. In a midfield pair you need somebody who is going to do the leg work, but neither can hassle or harry the opposition midfield well enough.
Both players like to sit deep, and mop up with interceptions. We need somebody like Sven Bender to get the percect balance between them.
In theory it seemed a nice idea, but the fact is between the both of them they are just too slow as a pair. In a midfield pair you need somebody who is going to do the leg work, but neither can hassle or harry the opposition midfield well enough.
Both players like to sit deep, and mop up with interceptions. We need somebody like Sven Bender to get the percect balance between them.
It would help if you read my post.
Some fan, Injured hand, put it across opponents, looks nervous (presumably due to said hand).
It wasn't exactly the most expansive post... also, I was making a comment in response to something someone on MUTV apparently said - not you - so not entirely sure why you're getting so defensive.
Gary Neville said: "The key for me is that the speed of their game through the midfield is not quick enough"
that basically sums it up. One thing Cleverley adds is tempo. His quick pass and move style is the perfect foil for Carricks slower style. I know people have written him off but even Anderson's bursting runs past people with the ball would be more welcome but because of everything else he lacks we'd probably have to play a midfield three to accommodate him.
I'm not getting defensive at all. It would actually help if you read my post. Your first paragraph is based on assumptions. I said the wrist injury works against Fellaini because he can't put his arm across opposition players. The nervousness isn't connected to his injury. Secondly, it wasn't meant to be an expansive post, so I have no idea why you're bringing that up... And I go onto say the problem is more tactical than anything else. Read it again:
He is clearly very nervous at the moment and it's seriously affecting the level he's playing at. He's scared to misplace a pass so he hits it way too slow, he's scared to get booked so he doesn't put in the tackles he would for Everton, he's blanking and moving too far out of the central area, plus missing people running off him and players who are in position to block his forward passes.
He reminds me of somebody learning to drive and its all going too fast for him.
He reminds me of somebody learning to drive and its all going too fast for him.
Then learn how to structure a paragraph. If your second sentence isn't in any way related to your first, then it should be seperate... otherwise when you say "He still looks nervous" the logical thing to infer is that the nerves come from reasons you've just outlined (see: wrist)... which I made a fair comment that - if he was nervous due to his wrist, it shouldn't effect his ability to make simple passes.
But no, instead I must not have read your two sentence post... because God forbid you do a shit job of getting a point across.
I'll say this for a final time because it's becoming tedious: read my post again. I'll highlight the nervous part for you: "He still looks nervous, but I think the problem is more tactical than psychological." That wasn't connected to his wrist injury. Notice that two reasons are given for his nervousness, but I opted for the tactical one. No sign of wrist injury being mentioned in the sentence. I think you'll find you're acting defensive now and getting worked up. It's 2013 and this is what you're complaining about.
cheers Dr. Phil. How much is this going to cost me?Ok.
I've said it numerous times since he signed: he cannot play alongside Carrick in our traditional 4-4-2. How anyone couldn't see that an immobile player who struggles under pressure (who is very good) wouldn't be complimented by an even more immobile player that struggles even more under pressure (who is decent at best) is unknown to me.
His current place in the team with Rooney and RVP up front should solely be as backup to Carrick. There are a few ways he could be accommodated such as a diamond or a flat 3 in midfield (which would mean dropping Rooney deeper or dropping him full stop), but as a partner to Carrick he will be horrible (save against truly awful teams).
What is more worrying than this formational issue however is that he sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of his ability. It really is like watching a mid-lower level player amongst far, far superior players. Ashley Young syndrome at the moment.
So so bad. Really hoping he's full of nerves or something because he's looking utterly ordinary at the moment. Also, looks like the least appropriate player to partner to play alongside Carrick, who even when playing alright, looks 10 times the player Fellaini does.
My argument is only that he is a midfielder and plays there regularly for club and country, you and others seem to disagree with this for some bizarre reason - whether he is equiped to play in a 4-4-2 or parter Carrick etc is up for debate.
Bullshit - which 3 times?
Ive just looked at the Tactical Formation and Average Position maps for Everton last season (all available here: http://espnfc.com/team/fixtures/_/id/368/season/2012/everton?cc=5739) - Ive only checked the last 6 games of the season and in 5 out of 6 Fellaini was playing in a midfield 2 (usually with Gibson, on one occasion with Osman) just in front of the defence with 4 attacking players in front (Pienaar, Mirallas, Osman, Barkley, Anichebe, Jelavis, Naismith etc).
Now I cant be arsed to check them all but that is already 5 out of 6 games where he is playing a defensive midfield role in a clear 4-2-3-1, there was only game (Liverpool) where he played as you describe which TBH was actually less than I expected myself!!
I actually tried to copy and paste the formation images but it doesnt let me for some reason so you will have to go and check for yourself. So please do so and I await your apology for talking shite.
Well no it's not, but regardless of price there's no point completely scapegoating a player. He was average but he wasn't terrible as some are making out and his price tag doesn't change that. I wasn't keen on Fellaini either and I'm still not now, but he still wasn't terrible in the game. He needs to up his game and at his price tag he should be producing better but then that isn't his fault it's Moyes's for completely paying over the top for him. No one wanted him at 23m for good reason.
Keep waiting for the apology because I looked myself on whoscored.com and you can look game by game his they set up.
I'm pretty sure Silent Witness one of the Caf's Everton fans said Fellaini hardly played in midfield for them last season he mainly played behind the striker.
went through and checked again and this is the midfield two and front two in Evertons games that Fellaini played in from the new year to the end of the season:
Newcastle: Neville-Osman in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
Swansea: Neville-Osman in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
Southampton: Neville-Osman in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
West Brom: Neville Fellaini in CM with Mirallas behind Anichebe
Villa: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
United: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Norwich: Osman- Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
Reading: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
City: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Couple of games he didn't play in
QPR: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Arsenal: midfield 3 of Gibson Fellaini Barkley
Sunderland: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Fulham: Osman - Fellaini in CM with Anichebe and Jelavic up top
Liverpool: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
West Ham: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Chelsea: Fellaini-Gibson in CM with Mirallas behind the striker
Swansea: Neville-Osman in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
Southampton: Neville-Osman in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
West Brom: Neville Fellaini in CM with Mirallas behind Anichebe
Villa: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
United: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Norwich: Osman- Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
Reading: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Jelavic
City: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Couple of games he didn't play in
QPR: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Arsenal: midfield 3 of Gibson Fellaini Barkley
Sunderland: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Fulham: Osman - Fellaini in CM with Anichebe and Jelavic up top
Liverpool: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
West Ham: Osman-Gibson in CM with Fellaini behind Anichebe
Chelsea: Fellaini-Gibson in CM with Mirallas behind the striker
In the majority of games last season, Fellaini played behind the striker.
He's not good enough to play next to Carrick and he can't play behind the striker unless Moyes dispenses with either RVP or Rooney.
All in all, a stupid signing.
Yeah, I'm not really going to debate that as I was backing what LR7 said.
Well there is your problem, you are using a flawed source of information so at least I now understand where this myth comes from. Whoscored do not show real stats of who played where on their formations - as far as I can tell it is just someone's best guess at the starting formation. That is why it is always shown as a perfectly aligned formation - the reality is always different and the link I gave you shows the REAL average position of each player based on live info from the match.
For example, lets take the West Ham game - according to you, Osman and Gibson played CM with Fellaini upfront - well here is the reality. Gibson (4) and Fellaini (25) are protecting the central defence - Osman (21), Pienaar, Mirallas and Anichebe are all playing further forward (there are few subs in there who slightly distort the picture) :
I suggest you go to the link I gave you to Soccernet and check each game (click 'Live' and then 'Tactical Formation' then 'Average Position') and you can see the real average position of each player rather than best guesses provided by whoscored.
You will see that the info you are going off is not correct and that he was playing midfield far more than you think (especially at the end of the season). It is obvious anyway when you think about it, because Fellaini went ages without scoring and it was all because he had been moved back to a defensive midfield position.
Rood, over the season how many games did he play as a DM in a midfield two?
Is he supposed to be scoring goals or something? Only we could have got Flamini on a free or Gustavo for half the price if we were looking for a decent-average holding player.
I actually overrated him, thought he was at least better than Cleverley but he's miles behind even him at the moment.
I actually overrated him, thought he was at least better than Cleverley but he's miles behind even him at the moment.
No idea - as I said, I just checked the last 6 games of the season and in 5 he was playing in a midfield 2 with either Gibson or Osman - it was actually more than I expected. Feel free to go and check the rest, Ive spent enough time of it and cant be arsed.
My main point is to dispell the myth that he barely ever played in midfield for Everton - you were claiming just 3 times in the whole season earlier on!
Even if it's 5 it's on a par with Rooney. I still think you claiming he 'often' played there is incorrect because even Everton fans on here who probably watch them a bit more than me and you (who are both relying on stat site formations) don't think he played there all that much.
Im not interested in a semantic argument about 'often', I dont claim he played there most of the time or anything like that (although he does play midfield for Belgium everytime and has done for most of his career in club football) - the point is that you were claiming he played in midfield just 3 times in the whole season, so far I have shown you that it was 5 times even in just the last 6 games of the season (clearly it will be more for the whole season)!!
The problem is that so many people rely on the same incorrect info that you do - Ive given you the real info so I suggest you use it to educate yourself about how Fellaini was utilised by Moyes earlier this year.
I'm happy to say that he didn't play there very often and leave it as that. I'm more interested in how he performs for us. You can go study Moyes use of Fellini at Everton if that's what floats your boat.
Aye. I've seen some say Fellaini is playing out of position for us while he only played AM for 2 seasons at Everton. For most of his career he's played DM.
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