Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

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Cina said:
Well that's why I used him as an example. Carrick and Young were bought at similar ages to Fellaini off similar clubs for pretty high fees, one went on to up his game and be an integral part of the team, the other was shown up for what he really is. Fellaini for me could go either way.
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Young has always been a mind boggling signing for me though, especially for the price we paid. Not at one point before or after the signing did I think he was good enough for us.

Carrick was already a very good and consistent player before he joined us. Like Fellaini, he wasn't seen as anything special and the fee was considered too much. I have a similar feeling regarding the Fellaini signing, I don't think it's a simple case of it going either way at all.

I mean, I'm sure there's perfectly valid reasons as to why you might think that he'll not be a success here, but he has a much better chance of being so than Ashley Young IMO. That much is clear to me.
 
Shark22 said:
Young has always been a mind boggling signing for me though, especially for the price we paid. Not at one point before or after the signing did I think he was good enough for us.

Carrick was already a very good and consistent player before he joined us. Like Fellaini, he wasn't seen as anything special and the fee was considered too much. I have a similar feeling regarding the Fellaini signing, I don't think it's a case of it going either way at all.

I mean, I'm sure there's perfectly valid reasons as to why you might think that he'll not be a success here, but he has a much better chance of being so than Ashley Young IMO. That much is clear to me.
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Young was obviously an extreme example, but I think an apt enough one because at the time of his signing there WERE a lot of people who thought he was capable of making the step up here (just check his thread at the time), obviously we can look back now and say that was never going to happen (well, except cider, 30+ goals/assists this season incoming!). We paid a hell of a lot for Fellaini too and it's definitely not guaranteed he'll succeed here because so far his top level (that I've seen) hasn't been the sort of level we've gotten from Carrick, so it's just difficult to judge whether we've already seen his best and that's exactly what we're getting, or if he is capable of becoming much better when surrounded by superior players at a bigger club.

Spose we just have to wait and see.
 
I didn't want Fellaini but I have more confidence that he will be a success here than I ever did with Young or Berbatov. Fellaini at least seems to have the nous to handle the pressure at being at United.
 
Elliott said:
He had another one of his moments in the Saidy Janko thread.
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Do you have a problem with me or anything?

I don't think Fellaini is the signing we should've made this summer. That's an honest opinion, and not an outrageous one by any means. In fact I'd say it's the opinion you're more likely to get if you ask neutral fans about it.

Ramshock said:
Pretty much. Here is the sticking points for some idiots on here.

1. Long ball donkey because he played for Everton

2. He isnt a Spanish midget wonder

3. His fecking Afro

Thats seriously what they think.
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Who thinks this? Are you seriously believing that his afro impacts how people rate him as a footballer?

And no, he isn't a Spanish midget wonder. Neither is Ander Herrera, one of the best tacklers of La Liga midfielders last season, so if what you're getting at is my preferance of him, I'd say you're the one who can't spot a player's ability, sir.

And although last season he WAS utilized mainly as a target man in behind a striker, I sincerely hope that's not where we'll use him this season. I suspect he'll play alongside Carrick in a midfield two plus act as cover for when Carrick's rested/injured, and as I've said many times before: In that role he's, in my eyes, perhaps a slight upgrade on Cleverley - albeit not necesarilly a better suited midfielder to our needs.

If you guys are happy with us buying him for more than we could've had him for in July, as our only midfield signing, then fine - but I'm not going to agree with it.
 
Elliott said:
No.
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Are you unable to debate the merits of the Fellaini-signing in a polite way instead of referring to a tongue-in-cheek comment made yesterday, in an entirely different thread? If so, are you stalking me or something? It just seems slightly.. well, crazy behaviour.

Stop derailing the thread, please.

Oh, and for the record - I will obviously support Fellaini in a United-shirt and really hope he'll succeed, I just suspect if we're going to solve the problems in our midfield we'll need a slightly different solution. Nothing would please me more than being proven utterly wrong and him elevating our game to another level, of course, but I assumed that went without saying.
 
Cina said:
Young was obviously an extreme example, but I think an apt enough one because at the time of his signing there WERE a lot of people who thought he was capable of making the step up here (just check his thread at the time).
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Quite - the revisionism on here is startling. Check back to half way through his first season and all you see is us laughing at Liverpool for getting Downing, while we'd signed the really good one!
 
KM said:
Wasn't in favor of signing him but now that he's signed, I'd wait for two-three months before passing a judgement on him rather than already calling him a flop.
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You're not going to call him a flop before he's played a single match for us?

Well, heh, that's some awful magnanimous shit right there boy.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Quite - the revisionism on here is startling. Check back to half way through his first season and all you see is us laughing at Liverpool for getting Downing, while we'd signed the really good one!
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To be fair Young WAS good in the first months of his United career.

Then the shit hit the fan in full force.

I don't think the Young example is bad personally. Overpriced, a good player for a side a couple of levels below United, PL proven but no European pedigree - the main difference obviously being that our midfield is in dire need of personell, unless our wings which were stocked at the time of the Young purchase.
 
Ramshock said:
Im sorry I thought he was in the Premier League not the Championship thanks for pointing that out
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What are you on about? He's been playing at Everton, who are LEVEL below Man Utd. Not difficult to comprehend.
Brightonian said:
Goddammit Cina that's not the attitude we want! One way or another, you have to make your mind up before he plays and refuse to change it no matter what happens afterwards.
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Good point, why must I let being rational get in the way of things? Clearly he's going to be a big flop!
 
Sir A1ex said:
I'm with you on that one. Call me old fashioned, but everything we've been lacking comes down to a bit of steel and drive. You can break it down into all those issues, and try and make out that it's somehow down to technique, but we've actually got some very good passers of the ball. What we've not had is somebody who won't get bullied off the ball, and who will add some impetus and direction.
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Totally agree. Some people seem to think that every player needs to be able to make an "eye of the needle" pass or have superb technical ability to improve a side when that's simply not the case.

Its horses for courses, and generally (Barca probably being the exception) in a succesful team you need different players of different types. We have a lot of ability in the side but for me we lacked someone with physical presence in the middle. Why people fail to acknolwedge that's a valuable asset, and does not just equate to "fouling people" I don't know.

The best United sides have generally had a player of that ilk - Robson and Keane being the best examples of the Fergie era. Even Fletcher offered that option and he's been a huge miss - allowing teams to ride roughshod over us in central areas of the pitch - an area we would have dominated in the past.

The modern fan seems to only want the tiki-taka style of the likes of Barca ands fail to recognise that ther is other ways to play. Its all well and good if you have loads of technically gifted players in a laeague where most sides try to play football. In the PL its valuable to be able to mix it up and over the years that's what United have done very succesfully.

It would be nice to have another Roy Keane, but he's not about yet. I'm happy we've addressed what was an obvious area of weakness - although not the only one.
 
RedRover said:
Totally agree. Some people seem to think that every player needs to be able to make an "eye of the needle" pass or have superb technical ability to improve a side when that's simply not the case.

Its horses for courses, and generally (Barca probably being the exception) in a succesful team you need different players of different types. We have a lot of ability in the side but for me we lacked someone with physical presence in the middle. Why people fail to acknolwedge that's a valuable asset, and does not just equate to "fouling people" I don't know.

The best United sides have generally had a player of that ilk - Robson and Keane being the best examples of the Fergie era. Even Fletcher offered that option and he's been a huge miss - allowing teams to ride roughshod over us in central areas of the pitch - an area we would have dominated in the past.

The modern fan seems to only want the tiki-taka style of the likes of Barca ands fail to recognise that ther is other ways to play. Its all well and good if you have loads of technically gifted players in a laeague where most sides try to play football. In the PL its valuable to be able to mix it up and over the years that's what United have done very succesfully.

It would be nice to have another Roy Keane, but he's not about yet. I'm happy we've addressed what was an obvious area of weakness - although not the only one.
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I tend to agree with this post - but what I disagree with is that Fellaini is the best option available that would have given us that steel and drive.

As I've said before, someone like Herrera would have given us bite, work-rate as well as excellent passing ability and a bit more in terms of creativeness through the middle. He's an excellent tackler and a true box-to-box CM, not just a Spanish flavour-of-the-month techno midget.

That's why I'm slightly underwhelmed with spending that kind of money and ending up with Fellaini. Not because of what he does offer us, but what others could have offered us in addition to those qualities.
 
marjen said:
To be fair Young WAS good in the first months of his United career.

Then the shit hit the fan in full force.

I don't think the Young example is bad personally. Overpriced, a good player for a side a couple of levels below United, PL proven but no European pedigree - the main difference obviously being that our midfield is in dire need of personell, unless our wings which were stocked at the time of the Young purchase.
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All true.

I think the reality is that most people were reasonably happy with Young as a signing, though thought him overpriced. I guess maybe partly because he wasn't essential, people were happy to take a bit of a risk, and more-over, we had the Fergie factor back then. Everybody tended to trust his judgment in the transfer market a lot more than people are willing to do with Moyes, which is understandable in the circumstances, I guess.
 
Sir A1ex said:
All true.

I think the reality is that most people were reasonably happy with Young as a signing, though thought him overpriced. I guess maybe partly because he wasn't essential, people were happy to take a bit of a risk, and more-over, we had the Fergie factor back then. Everybody tended to trust his judgment in the transfer market a lot more than people are willing to do with Moyes, which is understandable in the circumstances, I guess.
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I think that's Fellaini and Moyes's biggest problems.

For the rest of the world, it seems as like we tried to sign a world class CM to cover up our deficiancy in that area, for Moyes only to revert back to his old club to pick up one of his boys.

It means Fellaini will be judged harshly and unfairly if he fails to deliver for us. I'm not envying him that job.
 
marjen said:
Are you unable to debate the merits of the Fellaini-signing in a polite way instead of referring to a tongue-in-cheek comment made yesterday, in an entirely different thread? If so, are you stalking me or something? It just seems slightly.. well, crazy behaviour.

Stop derailing the thread, please.

Oh, and for the record - I will obviously support Fellaini in a United-shirt and really hope he'll succeed, I just suspect if we're going to solve the problems in our midfield we'll need a slightly different solution. Nothing would please me more than being proven utterly wrong and him elevating our game to another level, of course, but I assumed that went without saying.
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It has nothing to do with your view on Fellaini, it has everything to do with how you respond when your opinion is challenged. Yesterday it was down to clowns overrreacting, today it was something about you not agreeing with some phantom-argument that Fellaini is world class or some such shite. And now, right on cue, I'm apparently a crazy stalker for calling you out on it.
 
marjen said:
I think that's Fellaini and Moyes's biggest problems.

For the rest of the world, it seems as like we tried to sign a world class CM to cover up our deficiancy in that area, for Moyes only to revert back to his old club to pick up one of his boys.

It means Fellaini will be judged harshly and unfairly if he fails to deliver for us. I'm not envying him that job.
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Well, he doesn't have to shine like a world beater in order to deliver - that's the upside. If he strengthens us in the middle, thus making us an overall better side, I don't see how anyone can get on his case too badly. We could have bought a better player, sure. But that's not much of an argument. We could have bought Messi too in an ideal world.

There are reasons to think Moyes wanted Fellaini all along - with Baines and another CM. That means Fellaini isn't a desperation buy which came about because all other options failed.
 
Elliott said:
It has nothing to do with your view on Fellaini, it has everything to do with how you respond when your opinion is challenged. Yesterday it was down to clowns overrreacting, today it was something about you not agreeing with some phantom-argument that Fellaini is world class or some such shite. And now, right on cue, I'm apparently a crazy stalker for calling you out on it.
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Take a look at the responses to my perfectly reasonable belief that Fellaini is not by far the best midfielder we could've got for that kind of money.

Then go and ask neutrals the question "Do you reckon United have spent well on Fellaini?" or "Do you think Fellaini was the right purchase by United to strengthen their midfield?"

I'm quite sure my view gets quite a good backing in such a case. Alternatively, you could just ask any of the fans of other clubs around what they think.

EDIT: I mean, people pretending like the fact he's not Spanish or has an afro must be the reason why not everyone are perfectly happy with this signing? I mean, seriously? That's got nothing to do with my view being challenged, it's just plain old stupidity.
 
The problem he'll have now is what the expectations are of him.

If, as should have been the case, he was signed for £17~m along with another (better) midfield player the criterion for success would merely be to come in and be a solid squad player. His versatility would help the squad, as would his physical attributes and it would give us an option alongside Carrick or instead of Carrick, which we haven't had for years. I personally think he can fulfill this role and basically replicate the kind of contribution Fletcher had for us at times. I have no doubt he'll be a decent-good squad player.

Inevitably however, as he was signed for around 50% more than most would peg his value and with him being the only signing of the Summer, people will start pegging him as someone who will make a huge difference to our squad and even someone who may "take us to the next level in Europe". In my opinion this just isn't going to be the case. He isn't going to make our squad massively better and he isn't going to make our first XI massively better. I would say there is a reason why no-one came in for him at his £23.5m release clause, because he would be a financial gamble at that price... Obviously even moreso at £27.5m

I can't ever see him justifying the fee, which will be his biggest problem and a lot of people may say we'd have been better off spending a few more quid and getting a better player who is proven at a higher level. This is backed up by the fact that he was bought so late on when a few other options had failed... At a £4m premium.
 
marjen said:
Do you have a problem with me or anything?

I don't think Fellaini is the signing we should've made this summer. That's an honest opinion, and not an outrageous one by any means. In fact I'd say it's the opinion you're more likely to get if you ask neutral fans about it.



Who thinks this? Are you seriously believing that his afro impacts how people rate him as a footballer?

And no, he isn't a Spanish midget wonder. Neither is Ander Herrera, one of the best tacklers of La Liga midfielders last season, so if what you're getting at is my preferance of him, I'd say you're the one who can't spot a player's ability, sir.

And although last season he WAS utilized mainly as a target man in behind a striker, I sincerely hope that's not where we'll use him this season. I suspect he'll play alongside Carrick in a midfield two plus act as cover for when Carrick's rested/injured, and as I've said many times before: In that role he's, in my eyes, perhaps a slight upgrade on Cleverley - albeit not necesarilly a better suited midfielder to our needs.

If you guys are happy with us buying him for more than we could've had him for in July, as our only midfield signing, then fine - but I'm not going to agree with it.
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Yes I think they do.

Also Moyes wanted more than one midfielder he said so many times. Fellaini was ALWAYS coming. Get over yourself and let the man have a chance
 
finneh said:
The problem he'll have now is what the expectations are of him.

If, as should have been the case, he was signed for £17~m along with another (better) midfield player the criterion for success would merely be to come in and be a solid squad player. His versatility would help the squad, as would his physical attributes and it would give us an option alongside Carrick or instead of Carrick, which we haven't had for years. I personally think he can fulfill this role and basically replicate the kind of contribution Fletcher had for us at times. I have no doubt he'll be a decent-good squad player.

Inevitably however, as he was signed for around 50% more than most would peg his value and with him being the only signing of the Summer, people will start pegging him as someone who will make a huge difference to our squad and even someone who may "take us to the next level in Europe". In my opinion this just isn't going to be the case. He isn't going to make our squad massively better and he isn't going to make our first XI massively better. I would say there is a reason why no-one came in for him at his £23.5m release clause, because he would be a financial gamble at that price... Obviously even moreso at £27.5m

I can't ever see him justifying the fee, which will be his biggest problem and a lot of people may say we'd have been better off spending a few more quid and getting a better player who is proven at a higher level. This is backed up by the fact that he was bought so late on when a few other options had failed... At a £4m premium.
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This is more or less my exact view of the situation.
 
Ramshock said:
Yes I think they do.

Also Moyes wanted more than one midfielder he said so many times. Fellaini was ALWAYS coming. Get over yourself and let the man have a chance
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Let the man have a chance? I've stated numerous times I'll back him till the day he's not a United player anymore, as I always do with our players.

And yes, as finneh explains in the post above yours, perhaps this is part of the problem. If Moyes had got another midfielder that WOULD solve our problems, then I would be perfectly happy with also signing Fellaini. For £27 million as our only signing of the summer though, I'd say he's got unfair expectations ahead of him.
 
Ramshock said:
A level below what exactly? They play the same teams we do. Explain yourself.
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Sorry, I must have missed the part where Everton were in the Champions League.

There's clearly a difference between playing for a club like Everton and playing at a massive club like Utd. Plenty of players who've made the jump up to big clubs have failed.
 
Ramshock said:
A level below what exactly? They play the same teams we do. Explain yourself.
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Come on, don't be that petulant/ignorant/stupid.

You know perfectly well what he means. Playing for United is not like playing for Everton, and you know it. Pressure, expectations and standards are entirely different. He'll be put under massive scrutiny nowhere near what he was for Everton.
 
Cina said:
Sorry, I must have missed the part where Everton were in the Champions League.

There's clearly a difference between playing for a club like Everton and playing at a massive club like Utd. Plenty of players who've made the jump up to big clubs have failed.
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Ah I must have missed the part where Fellaini isnt an established starter in the Belgian team. So he can play well against us City, Chelsea and Arsenal but he cant step it up against Leverkusen or Donetsk. Give me a break,
 
marjen said:
Come on, don't be that petulant/ignorant/stupid.

You know perfectly well what he means. Playing for United is not like playing for Everton, and you know it. Pressure, expectations and standards are entirely different. He'll be put under massive scrutiny nowhere near what he was for Everton.
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In that case we should only buy players from clubs as successful as us yeah? Lets see...how has that worked out for us? Do me a favour
 
marjen said:
I tend to agree with this post - but what I disagree with is that Fellaini is the best option available that would have given us that steel and drive.

As I've said before, someone like Herrera would have given us bite, work-rate as well as excellent passing ability and a bit more in terms of creativeness through the middle. He's an excellent tackler and a true box-to-box CM, not just a Spanish flavour-of-the-month techno midget.

That's why I'm slightly underwhelmed with spending that kind of money and ending up with Fellaini. Not because of what he does offer us, but what others could have offered us in addition to those qualities.
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Whether he's the "best option" is a matter of opinion and it seems Moyes wanted both Herrera and Fellaini in any event - but Moyes knows Fellaini as a person and a player so he clearly thinks he has the ability to do the job he's been brought in to do.

Herrera, as an example, while looking like a technically sound player, has few caps and a realtive lack of experience in Europe and had a poor season last year by all accounts, yet people seem to have no concerns that the club would be spending £36 million on him (plus whatever tax). In my view because a lot of fans see that he's Spanish and therefore assume he fits the stereo-type and not based on any informed opinion.

You may prefer him to Fellaini - but some may suggest otherwise given Fellaini's experience in the league and Moyes relationship with him. Neither player would be nailed on to succeed.

Lets be honest, Fellaini isn't the bsecond coming - but nobody should expect that. People might be underwhelmed that we didnt bring in a Fabregas, but some people seem blind to what he can bring to the side in an area we were woefully short.
 
Ramshock said:
In that case we should only buy players from clubs as successful as us yeah? Lets see...how has that worked out for us? Do me a favour
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That's not what anyone of us has said. It's just that there's no way we can be sure Fellaini can handle playing for a club as big as United.

Whereas someone like van Persie was a fairly straightforward assumption - he'll continue banging them in.
 
Ramshock said:
Ah I must have missed the part where Fellaini isnt an established starter in the Belgian team. So he can play well against us City, Chelsea and Arsenal but he cant step it up against Leverkusen or Donetsk. Give me a break,
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I can't believe how much shit you're talking right now.

If you can't see the difference between playing for a side like Everton and playing for a side like Man Utd then you probably should stop watching football.

Ashley Young was Villa's best player and an international footballer. How'd that one work out?
 
RedRover said:
Whether he's the "best option" is a matter of opinion and it seems Moyes wanted both Herrera and Fellaini in any event - but Moyes knows Fellaini as a person and a player so he clearly thinks he has the ability to do the job he's been brought in to do.

Herrera, as an example, while looking like a technically sound player, has few caps and a realtive lack of experience in Europe and had a poor season last year by all accounts, yet people seem to have no concerns that the club would be spending £36 million on him (plus whatever tax). In my view because a lot of fans see that he's Spanish and therefore assume he fits the stereo-type and not based on any informed opinion.

You may prefer him to Fellaini - but some may suggest otherwise given Fellaini's experience in the league and Moyes relationship with him. Neither player would be nailed on to succeed.

Lets be honest, Fellaini isn't the bsecond coming - but nobody should expect that. People might be underwhelmed that we didnt bring in a Fabregas, but some people seem blind to what he can bring to the side in an area we were woefully short.
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This is all true, obviously, and discussing football will always be a matter of opinion.

I just felt that Herrera would give us a better first XI option in CM, while Fellaini wouldn't to such a degree. As I said it isn't the typical "Spanish" qualities that makes me feel he'd be a good fit, but his tenacity, his work-rate and his tackling ability combined with the mobility and passing which Fellaini quite simply doesn't offer.

And it's unfair to hold Herrera's lack of caps against him - Fellaini wouldn't be capped if he was Spanish, either.

But all of us obviously won't agree on this - I sincerely hope he succeeds, but would have preferred someone else as our only CM signing. In fact Fellaini would be quite far down the list for me, but there you go.
 
Cina said:
I can't believe how much shit you're talking right now.

If you can't see the difference between playing for a side like Everton and playing for a side like Man Utd then you probably should stop watching football.

Ashley Young was Villa's best player and an international footballer. How'd that one work out?
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Im talking shit? You are forgetting the thousands and thousands of players who move on up to a big club and make it and Ashley Young is your one point of reference? Do feck off.
 
Ramshock said:
Ah I must have missed the part where Fellaini isnt an established starter in the Belgian team. So he can play well against us City, Chelsea and Arsenal but he cant step it up against Leverkusen or Donetsk. Give me a break,
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Spot on. In Europe it's only really against the likes of Barca, Bayern and Madrid that the class in players really steps up a notch. Even then, our current midfielders probably wouldn't live with them anyway, so there's no shame in Fellaini not dominating those games either.
 
marjen said:
This is all true, obviously, and discussing football will always be a matter of opinion.

I just felt that Herrera would give us a better first XI option in CM, while Fellaini wouldn't to such a degree. As I said it isn't the typical "Spanish" qualities that makes me feel he'd be a good fit, but his tenacity, his work-rate and his tackling ability combined with the mobility and passing which Fellaini quite simply doesn't offer.

And it's unfair to hold Herrera's lack of caps against him - Fellaini wouldn't be capped if he was Spanish, either.

But all of us obviously won't agree on this - I sincerely hope he succeeds, but would have preferred someone else as our only CM signing. In fact Fellaini would be quite far down the list for me, but there you go.
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Herrera who was a CL and International regular Herrera ?
 
Ramshock said:
Im talking shit? You are forgetting the thousands and thousands of players who move on up to a big club and make it and Ashley Young is your one point of reference? Do feck off.
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But there are just as many players who don't make it.

You're basically saying that because Fellaini was very good for Everton and is an international player that he's a guaranteed success here, when in reality it's probably been around 50/50 either way. I'm not sure how you're failing to grasp the logic here.
 
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