I agree that is a super attack on form.
I would just dispute that more than a couple of RVPs were literally from nothing. We scored shitloads of goals and you don't do that without some creativity in the side.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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I agree that is a super attack on form.
I would just dispute that more than a couple of RVPs were literally from nothing. We scored shitloads of goals and you don't do that without some creativity in the side.
Not really, they weren't exactly amazing last year either. Last season we played centrally more than any other I can remember.
We scored an obscene amount from set-pieces, though I agree we aren't without creativity.
My gripe is that playing Fellaini will actually remove some creativity from the side, at the cost of a physically dominant player. Although as you've pointed out, Cleverley's a bit bland either way. Meh. If only Cesc was available...
We have always relied on creativity from the wings and the front men though.
Even with Scholes / Keane in their pomp, more assists came from the wings than through the middle.
Sure it helps to have a different option that Scholes gave, driving through midfield with 1,2's and finishing nicely. I do not see any reason why Fellaini could not do that.
Carrick may also feel more inclined to get more into the box knowing he has a competant midfield partner who can sweep him, rather than worrying he is leaving the defence bare.
Even with Scholes / Keane in their pomp, more assists came from the wings than through the middle.
Sure it helps to have a different option that Scholes gave, driving through midfield with 1,2's and finishing nicely. I do not see any reason why Fellaini could not do that.
Carrick may also feel more inclined to get more into the box knowing he has a competant midfield partner who can sweep him, rather than worrying he is leaving the defence bare.
Not just Carrick. We have been prone to being overrun for a few seasons now, like never before, and it had to effect the team, and that for me was the base of the need for a new CM. So in that respect Fellaini is kind of what we are looking for. I think we need a younger Carrick now, and soon.
I'm suprised we didn't show more interest in McCarthy to be honest. He reminds me of a very young Carrick at times and we could have easily picked him up. I suppose we can see how he does at Everton now though and possibly make a move at some point in the future if he impresses further.
I like him. But he did not play well in the Community Shield match (or Ireland's latest games). It's always good to play well against United if you want them to look at you as a target.
I like McCarthy but Cleverley would've probably stuck out in that Wigan side too, not really sure he'd be an upgrade or improvement in any way.
I totally disgaree, I think Tom is being carried by the quality around him, the total opposite of McCarthy.
I don't think any one player could have solved our midfield problems altogether. Moyes told journos that he wanted 2 midfielders, a more defensive-minded one and a goalscoring one, and I'm more than happy with Fellaini being, primarily, the former. He is without question one of the best ball winners in the league when played in midfield and that's probably the main reason why we signed him. In addition, he'll make us much stronger at set-pieces at either end and he'll probably win us points at some stage as an auxiliary target when we're chasing a late goal against 10 defenders and a goalie. Had we gotten Herrera as well (based on what I've heard about him, I've only seen him play twice..) it would have been an almost perfect window for us in terms of adding what we needed to add. It's a shame that deal fell through but I guess Fellaini was priority-1 and to me that makes a lot of sense.
Plus, McCarthy seems to have a much better sense of positioning than Tom. He's shown a lot more defensively too.
Fair enough, I'm not Cleverley's biggest fan but I think it's easier for a good player to stick out in a lesser team. I think McCarthy is probably better than Cleverley, or at least potentially so, but not really to the extent where he'd have massively improved our midfield or anything. I'll also go with the theory that we probably like to wait for players to prove themselves at clubs like Everton before making a move. With Fellaini here McCarthy probably wouldn't have gotten too many games.
That's an interesting one, and only kind of off topic, but I really think it depends on the player.
I like McCarthy, but probably mainly because he's an Oirland player.
Difference is Cleverley is a Utd youth product. He has progressed through the ranks and is 1 of our own.
People said the same about O'shea; sure there is better players than him, but he was loyal, reliable and never caused hassle when not playing.
McCarthy is a good young player, but is he really that much better than Cleverley? So much better that its worth paying several million in fee's, and bench a good young player who has been loyal? I do not think so.
Lets not forget Cleverley DID stand out in the wigan team on loan there, people raved about him.
People said the same about O'shea; sure there is better players than him, but he was loyal, reliable and never caused hassle when not playing.
McCarthy is a good young player, but is he really that much better than Cleverley? So much better that its worth paying several million in fee's, and bench a good young player who has been loyal? I do not think so.
Lets not forget Cleverley DID stand out in the wigan team on loan there, people raved about him.
It probably does depend on the player, maybe we'll see with Fellaini, clearly a standout at Everton and he could just end up looking pretty normal alongside a player as good as Carrick or he could turn out to have far more in his locker when surrounded by superior players.
But yeah, main reason I like McCarthy is cause he's Ireland's best young player. If he does turn out to be awesome at Everton I hope we buy him in 2015 for £80m.
He already did. Granted, he didn't play in central midfield for them, but in terms of sheer quality he had little trouble standing out in a gray Wigan side.
We've enough creativity in the side. The problem is that creativity needs a foundation of CM strength before it can flourish, and United have lacked that strength to date.
If you look at the midfields of City, Chelsea and Liverpool in their previous games you see the following CM partnerships:
Toure/Fernandinho
Lampard/Ramires
Gerrard/Lucas
They're not particularly creative players, they're generally workhorses; Gerrard can pick a good pass but no more so than Michael Carrick. Importantly though each partnership contains physically strong players and a goalscorer. It's in front of them where you'll find the creativity in Aguero, Oscar and Aspas. More creativity flanking them in Silva, Hazard and Coutinho.
Compare those partnerships with United's prior to Fellaini. Where's the workhorse? Where's the goalscorer? Where's the physicality and the steel? Creativity doesn't come from the CM position in the Premier League. You need solidity in the center of the pitch; physically strong players who can win the ball, hold it up and give it quickly to those more creative around them. Without this a Kagawa/Rooney type AMC sat in front of the midfield just cannot get on the ball with enough regularity to be effective. How many times last season did Kagawa look impotent or Rooney have to drop deep to find possession? This isn't due to a lack of creativity behind them, but a complete lack of solidity.
A Carrick/Fellaini partnership serves to provide the foundation of strength needed to support the creativity of the AMC and wingers.
I'd actually agree with that particular snippet. He's a better player than Cleverley/Anderson, it's just his role I can't picture in this United-side. He'll have to iron out his own!
I disagree. His defensive attributes aside, its an out ball for the defenders to play - something we lacked against Liverpool when Ferdinand and Vidic had no options in front of them and were pretty vocal about it. There is also the obvious benefit of having a player of that type in the side - it allows Carrick to get further forward, influence the game in more advanced areas and offer a bit more penetration.
I agree we could do with a bit more penetration from midfield, but if we're playing 451 then Rooney or whomever else should offer that.
It will be interesting to see how we line up tommorow.
Fellaini isn't that player, but it seems Moyes wanted another midfielder to do that job anyway.
Agree with that totally. Two, effectively "holding players" and four infront to bring the spark. Its solid and its the basis most succesful European sides work off.
Indeed - and I think that's something we lack.
Yaya Toure isnt the best passer of a ball, as an example. He dominates physically and does a very good job at it. Nobody criticises him for not being a great ball player, because its not what he's there to do.
Fact is the best sides have players with different attributes. A team full of ball players is nice of they're the standard of Barca. If not, you end up with Barca-lite - like Arsenal.
There's very few centre mids more comfortable on the ball than Toure in the Premier League. He sprays passes around the pitch effortlessly. The same can't be said of Fellaini. That's the issue here.
Do you not think he has the ability to step up with a better team around him? A team that controls games? He's no Yaya at the mo' but few are.
Is it really that simplistic that a player's passing should improve when he has better players around him?
No, but his comfort on the ball might, which is what we were talking about. Better players give you more time. Everton rarely have the time in possession we do. Fellaini can pass, and will pass better under less pressure.
Maybe, I just don't think Fellaini is a particularly great passer. I reckon it's going to be a case of him bringing the ball down (he has excellent first touch and close control) and just laying it off to Carrick, much like Carrick did with Scholes back in the day.
Yaya Toure at 24 was just leaving Monaco to join Barcelona. I very much doubt he was the same polished player he is now back then.
If Fellaini can keep improving at the same rate I see no reason why he cannot develop a better passing range. Its all down to the player at the end of the day, if he continues working on his techniques he could become anything he wants.
If Fellaini can keep improving at the same rate I see no reason why he cannot develop a better passing range. Its all down to the player at the end of the day, if he continues working on his techniques he could become anything he wants.
Toure was a super player, even then. But that's not to say playing in a more dominant team won't help Fellaini improve.
I do remember him being superb at Barcelona, but I didn't see much of him playing for Monaco.
Either way Fellaini is still relatively young. In a team where he is not going to be defending for the majority of games I think we will get a good sense of his attacking ability.
Will be interesting to see if he plays against Palace, how involved he will get. I sense he will just keep it tidy and play the simple pass, but you never know.
I hope I am too.
I think Fellaini will be the more attacking of the two he has more in his locker and is more composed in attacking positions.
Personally I'd prefer if both played pretty deep and Rooney/Kagawa were the ones dictating things in front of them.
To be far, I'm very hungover and slept for three hours, don't get used to it moses, I'll be back with a bang tomorrow.
Fellaini likes making simple passes in deep positions but he is very confident in moving off the ball and getting into good attacking positions, once he gets it to feet there.. he's very good at keeping possession due to his strength and composure, just making him sit deep is not his game, he likes to drift after making a pass. That is why he gets goals.
Exactly. I don't see any area of his game that is poor enough to make you think he couldn't get it up to a very good standard. I'm confident (let's say 80%) he'll be a very effective and much loved player for us, but I also hold out a not-that-slim hope that he could actually become amazing... I'd give it about 20% maybe.
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