Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chesterlestreet said:
Indeed - and ultimately Woodward et al will be: But this is one window, the very first with Ed n' Dave in charge. I think they still deserve the benefit of the doubt here. We didn't land a great name - but to conclude from this that we are unable to/unwilling to land anyone unless they fit a budget is premature. The unlikeliest aspect of this - to me - is actually the Glazers: If they did indeed tell Moyes that he's got thirty mill to spend, not a penny more, then we're fecked! Nothing less, in fact. Moyes acting all enthusiastic about having no budget, Woodward raving on about big players and being willing to spend seventy million on a single player, etc - and all of it just bollocks to cover up the ugly truth that we're strapped for cash compared to our rivals...I can't bring myself to believe this. Not least when we add the Fellaini purchase to the equation: If you're given thirty million, not a penny more, and you blow practically the whole load on a player like Fellaini, well - then you're insane. And I don't think Moyes is insane. I think he has the means to go out and buy a very different sort of midfielder in the next window(s).

Lastly - if you're limited to thirty million AND you're after a player like Fabregas (some say Modric too - and De Rossi), wouldn't it make more sense to go out and say you're looking at ONE midfielder to strengthen your team? Moyes has repeatedly said he's looking at several. He has even indicated the need to bring in several starters, "world class" types...why would he do that if he knows full well he'll be on a tight budget? He buys Fellaini for an excessive amount - and then goes on to talk about getting in world class reinforcements to be able to compete with the likes of Bayern Munich...it doesn't make any sense to me.
Click to expand...

I agree with you to an extent. However, the reality is Moyes can say whatever he likes. Woodward can say whatever he likes. If we keep saying we want the best, but sit back and watch the best move elsewhere while we are reluctant to go above our transfer record of £30m, then we should make our deductions from what we have seen, not what we have heard. From what I saw in the summer, we were unwilling to go above £30m. Woodward said £70m, but then stopped his bidding at £30m for a £45m player.

I think next summer may be different, but largely due to the fact that we may not be in the top 4 and will not have the luxury of scrounging. As long as we are up there competing, I have doubts over whether we will box with the big boys.

Also, again, us blowing £30m on Fellaini seems 'insane' because we don't rate him. He's a £10m player to me. That said, I believe Moyes thinks he is a lot better than we do, so as of September 2, he would have felt his purchase was a lot more justified than we did. Again, this poses questions of his judgement if Fellaini does not improve.
 
Rozay said:
I agree with you to an extent. However, the reality is Moyes can say whatever he likes. Woodward can say whatever he likes. If we keep saying we want the best, but sit back and watch the best move elsewhere while we are reluctant to go above our transfer record of £30m, then we should make our deductions from what we have seen, not what we have heard. From what I saw in the summer, we were unwilling to go above £30m. Woodward said £70m, but then stopped his bidding at £30m for a £45m player.

I think next summer may be different, but largely due to the fact that we may not be in the top 4 and will not have the luxury of scrounging. As long as we are up there competing, I have doubts over whether we will box with the big boys.

Also, again, us blowing £30m on Fellaini seems 'insane' because we don't rate him. He's a £10m player to me. That said, I believe Moyes thinks he is a lot better than we do, so as of September 2, he would have felt his purchase was a lot more justified than we did. Again, this poses questions of his judgement if Fellaini does not improve.
Click to expand...

There's no doubt that Moyes will look bad if Fellaini turns out to be a complete disaster. But there are shades to this as well: I don't think Moyes personally values Fellaini at close to thirty million - nor do I think he would place him in the same bracket as a Fabregas or a Modric. I'm fairly sure he was intended as the "second" of the two CMs Moyes wanted: A different option, perhaps a long-term replacement for Carrick, but certainly not the sort of instant improvement someone like Fabregas would've been.

Still, you're clearly right that Moyes has a lot more faith in Fellaini than many of our fans have: We can only hope he'll be vindicated in that regard - and I for one still think Fellaini can come good for us. But I doubt that'll happen before we strengthen further in the middle. Fellaini is what he is - a rather limited footballer. He won't transform into a world beater anytime soon. But he is clearly better than what he has shown so far - he has largely underperformed, which has turned people against him even more.
 
Destroyed United for years, playing as a 'support striker' at Everton. That's where he needs to play in order to get the best out of him. We wont / can't play him there because we have better options.

Never a central / holding midfielder but because of the lack of options there, that's where he is deployed.
Feel for the oaf, I really do.
 
Sir Giggs said:
Destroyed United for years, playing as a 'support striker' at Everton. That's where he needs to play in order to get the best out of him. We wont / can't play him there because we have better options.

Never a central / holding midfielder but because of the lack of options there, that's where he is deployed.
Feel for the oaf, I really do.
Click to expand...


And years to come.

He did a good job sometimes destroying big teams for Everton at home, he is not a destroyer.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
What he played at Preston all those years ago is irrelevant now.

Manchester United now play the 4th amount of long balls in the league, we were 17th in that department under Fergie last term. The number of short passes that we play has decreased along with successful passes, we are also top of the crossing chart. Fellani is great for the long ball and clearances. His power headers result in territorial gain too - get in! I am quite sure that you know percentage football works.

Moyes has managed to take our brand of football to a state even less aesthetically appealing than Fergie's worst, with the same players also. I have not enjoyed it one bit so far. Not that I am calling for his head. I hope that we get at least 4th this year and then hopefully Moyes will bring in some players that can bring some style back to our play. I do believe that the players that Moyes had hoped to bring in initially would have been able to do this.

My original point is that only Moyes can be blamed for Fellani playing like Fellani in our team. I don't really see who else can.
Click to expand...

Spot on. Worrying times.
 
He was fine yesterday. And his presence has them focused on him, which allowed Evra to sneak in for the goal off the corner.
 
According to FourFourTwo's stats app Fellaini's pass completion yesterday was 83%. That's pretty poor for a guy who's not an inventive or risky passer of the ball.
 
Sir Giggs said:
Destroyed United for years, playing as a 'support striker' at Everton. That's where he needs to play in order to get the best out of him. We wont / can't play him there because we have better options.

Never a central / holding midfielder but because of the lack of options there, that's where he is deployed.
Feel for the oaf, I really do.
Click to expand...

ItsEssexRob said:
He did a good job sometimes destroying big teams for Everton at home, he is not a destroyer.
Click to expand...


This is a big myth on here. The reason he was played further up the pitch for Everton in his last couple of seasons is because he was better in that role than anyone else they had fit/could afford to bring in. Before that (at the age of about 22) he'd been putting in a string of good performances against strong teams as a destroyer. This season for us he's been played as a CM in a midfield 2 which doesn't suit him, he doesn't have the mobility to be a great all-round centre midfielder, but as a destroyer, as well as as a decent makeshift support striker, he's proven himself.

Obviously he's not torn up any trees so far but I don't think that's a statement on his quality. He's had a few good performances, and a few poor ones alongside weaker partners, but he's moved to a new club and is being asking to play that uncomfortable CM role after 2 years as an AM/support striker, so it's understandable. It's very premature and very short-sighted to write him off this early given the promise he's shown previously.
 
He's shown far better for performances in CM for Everton than he has for United so far. Which isn't difficult, considering he's been absolutely shit for us so far. He needs to man the feck up, he's playing like he's shit scared right now.
 
Rood said:
I am not talking about him playing striker either, by 'upfront' I mean just behind and yes he has played there many occasions over the past couple of seasons but it was largely down to injury. Everton had a tiny squad so Moyes was forced into it, when Anichebe was back fit at end of last season then, apart from a couple of occasions, Fellaini was very much playing defensive midfield.

He also plays midfield for Belgium - although that is part of a midfield 3 so not exactly the same set up.

The whole idea that he rarely played there before this season is complete bullshit - I see people say it again and again but it is just plain wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that he rarely played there; it's that he rarely played there with distinction. Fellaini was/is a mid table plodder with a terrible disciplinary record in central midfield, with no noises of a move to a higher level. Last season he started getting headlines by scoring regularly and causing problems in the opposition third and was then linked with bigger clubs at a high price.

We've paid the price-tag for his performances behind the striker, despite not wanting to play him there, which is quite baffling. He's a £5-7m mid table central midfielder, but a £15-20m "Spurs level" second striker. If we wanted a midfielder who could do the job we are trying to shoehorn him into doing at the level we require, Flamini was available for nothing.
 
finneh said:
I don't think it's that he rarely played there; it's that he rarely played there with distinction. Fellaini was/is a mid table plodder with a terrible disciplinary record in central midfield, with no noises of a move to a higher level.
Click to expand...


There were plenty of noises when he played in midfield. I remember him being linked to Arsenal quite heavily for example.
 
Just add him to the long list of midfield failures we are so fond in collecting - Djemba Djemba, Klerberson, Hargreaves, Anderson.

Why is it so hard for us to sign a competent midfielder - its not like there were none available but we continue shoot ourselves in the foot with baffling signings.
 
My take is that Fellaini became an option after failing secure other midfield targets. That so called 'derisory joint bid" had his correct valuation. There is no way we would have paid £27 million for him had we managed to sign any one of Fabregas, Thiago or Herrera. This was a desperate signing.
 
We had seen more Djemba-Djemba & Kleberson in their first few games.

We will be forced to watch Fellaini break-up our play till Moyes admits he got it wrong and sells him (Maybe someone like Stoke could buy him and play him up front). He should never have been an option for us. I would rather we played with just a single midfielder than have him on the field and further spoil our play.
 
Theon said:
There were plenty of noises when he played in midfield. I remember him being linked to Arsenal quite heavily for example.
Click to expand...


I don't remember any concrete interest from anyone before him regularly scoring last season. Arsenal preferred the likes of Arteta and more recently Flamini, for obvious reasons.
 
finneh said:
I don't remember any concrete interest from anyone before him regularly scoring last season. Arsenal preferred the likes of Arteta and more recently Flamini, for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...


Fair enough, I definitely remember Arsenal being interested but it was just transfer gossip.

Just had a google and articles are coming up which mentions their interest in Fellaini. I agree with you it isn't concrete, they didn't make a bid for example, but there were definite noises about him moving to a bigger club when he was playing in midfield.
 
finneh said:
I don't think it's that he rarely played there; it's that he rarely played there with distinction. Fellaini was/is a mid table plodder with a terrible disciplinary record in central midfield, with no noises of a move to a higher level. Last season he started getting headlines by scoring regularly and causing problems in the opposition third and was then linked with bigger clubs at a high price.

We've paid the price-tag for his performances behind the striker, despite not wanting to play him there, which is quite baffling. He's a £5-7m mid table central midfielder, but a £15-20m "Spurs level" second striker. If we wanted a midfielder who could do the job we are trying to shoehorn him into doing at the level we require, Flamini was available for nothing.
Click to expand...

Firstly, there are many claiming that he has rarely played in midfield recently, which is just plain wrong - just look at the thread and the original comment which I was replying to. Im sick of this myth being perpetuated by clueless jokers.

Secondly, there is a debate to be had about what his best position is and how good he is as a defensive midfielder - you are entitled your opinion on that but I think it is overly negative. I dont think he has been so bad in the last couple of games and still expect him to improve as he settles.

Thirdly, your valuations are laughable. Even ignoring what he did for Everton, we are talking about a regular Belgian international midfielder - they are one of the seeded countries at the World Cup! And you think he is worth £5-7m? Mental.

Finally, I do think we overpaid for him but only by about £5m which is not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things - at the very least I thought you would be pleased about the effect his signing has had on our net spend, after all that is your favourite subject to moan about ;)
 
sajeev said:
We had seen more Djemba-Djemba & Kleberson in their first few games.

We will be forced to watch Fellaini break-up our play till Moyes admits he got it wrong and sells him (Maybe someone like Stoke could buy him and play him up front). He should never have been an option for us. I would rather we played with just a single midfielder than have him on the field and further spoil our play.
Click to expand...

Get a hold.
 
Rood said:
Firstly, there are many claiming that he has rarely played in midfield recently, which is just plain wrong
Click to expand...


I agree with everything you say on Fellaini Rood, but can't get my head around this part at all. Fair enough he might have moved back in midfield at the end of last season, but at the end of 11/12 and at the beginning of last season he was regularly playing off the striker.
 
Theon said:
I agree with everything you say on Fellaini Rood, but can't get my head around this part at all. Fair enough he might have moved back in midfield at the end of last season, but at the end of 11/12 and at the beginning of last season he was regularly playing off the striker.
Click to expand...

I dont disagree with that at all - he has played off the striker many times in the past couple of years. However, it was largely because Everton had a small squad and their other options were injured - for the vast majority of his career he has played in midfield. And he was playing mostly in a defensive midfield 2 for Everton in the last part of last season - there are many claiming that he has pretty much never played there until coming to us!
 
I knew the knives would be out after Cardiff, but they should be out for Evra, Cleverley and Evans.
 
Rood said:
Firstly, there are many claiming that he has rarely played in midfield recently, which is just plain wrong - just look at the thread and the original comment which I was replying to. Im sick of this myth being perpetuated by clueless jokers.

Secondly, there is a debate to be had about what his best position is and how good he is as a defensive midfielder - you are entitled your opinion on that but I think it is overly negative. I dont think he has been so bad in the last couple of games and still expect him to improve as he settles.

Thirdly, your valuations are laughable. Even ignoring what he did for Everton, we are talking about a regular Belgian international midfielder - they are one of the seeded countries at the World Cup! And you think he is worth £5-7m? Mental.

Finally, I do think we overpaid for him but only by about £5m which is not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things - at the very least I thought you would be pleased about the effect his signing has had on our net spend, after all that is your favourite subject to moan about ;)
Click to expand...

Fair enough if many people don't think he played as a deep midfielder - he did for more than half his games at Everton (although not that many last season which was his best year).

Scott Parker was a regular midfielder for a similarly rated international team at the same time. Maxi is still a regular for a team much better than Belgium, yet he couldn't get into a shite Liverpool team. Being a fixture in a decent international team has pretty much no effect on your value, unless you put in quality performances against quality opposition for that team.

Also it might be worth reading more than one post of the other thread in reference to your final paragraph (context and all that).

As I said a better player in Flamini was available this Summer for nothing. How anyone could peg Fellaini's value in the position we are playing him higher than £10m is beyond me. You look around and see midfielders going for less than £10m every Summer that are better or similar. Flamini, Arteta, Parker, Cabaye, Tiote, Wanyama, Delph, McCarthy etc.
 
finneh said:
Fair enough if many people don't think he played as a deep midfielder - he did for more than half his games at Everton (although not that many last season which was his best year).

Scott Parker was a regular midfielder for a similarly rated international team at the same time. Maxi is still a regular for a team much better than Belgium, yet he couldn't get into a shite Liverpool team. Being a fixture in a decent international team has pretty much no effect on your value, unless you put in quality performances against quality opposition for that team.

Also it might be worth reading more than one post of the other thread in reference to your final paragraph (context and all that).

As I said a better player in Flamini was available this Summer for nothing. How anyone could peg Fellaini's value in the position we are playing him higher than £10m is beyond me. You look around and see midfielders going for less than £10m every Summer that are better or similar. Flamini, Arteta, Parker, Cabaye, Tiote, Wanyama, Delph, McCarthy etc.
Click to expand...

Of course being a regular in a decent international team has an effect on your value, it shows you can cut it at the highest level - silly to claim otherwise.
BTW Parker was only a regular international for about 12 months of his whole career - compare that to Fellaini.

And you are not comparing like with like - the likes of Parker and Arteta moved cheap due to age and/or contact situation. Cabaye and Tiote were bargain buys (possibly contract related?) but untested at PL level and as you know you pay a lot for proven PL players. Delph and McCarthy are nowhere near the pedigree of Fellaini, they may get there in the future, we shall see.

Plus do you even realise that Everton paid £15m for Fellaini 5 years ago? Was expensive TBF, but he was an extremely highly rated youngester and he has obviously improved massively since then.

Name me one midfielder of similar age, contract situation and experience (regular international, several seasons for a top half PL club) to Fellaini who moved for £10m (and lets not forget that you first said an even more idiotic "£5-7m") ? I doubt you can even find one for £15m in recent times
 
Rood said:
Of course being a regular in a decent international team has an effect on your value, it shows you can cut it at the highest level - silly to claim otherwise.
BTW Parker was only a regular international for about 12 months of his whole career - compare that to Fellaini.

And you are not comparing like with like - the likes of Parker and Arteta moved cheap due to age and/or contact situation. Cabaye and Tiote were bargain buys (possibly contract related?) but untested at PL level and as you know you pay a lot for proven PL players. Delph and McCarthy are nowhere near the pedigree of Fellaini, they may get there in the future, we shall see.

Plus do you even realise that Everton paid £15m for Fellaini 5 years ago? Was expensive TBF, but he was an extremely highly rated youngester and he has obviously improved massively since then.

Name me one midfielder of similar age, contract situation and experience (regular international, several seasons for a top half PL club) to Fellaini who moved for £10m (and lets not forget that you first said an even more idiotic "£5-7m") ? I doubt you can even find one for £15m in recent times
Click to expand...

Why experience in EPL is that important when we see countless examples of players coming from outside of England and shining immediately. Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Oscar, Cabaye, Modric to name a few are players who were excellent the moment they came here. But yeah, we need to go for a player who did good in a midtable team.

Fellaini is a 15m player level who should play in a midtable team. That is his level, and it won't change. He is a very limited player, I dunno how someone can argue otherwise. We made a terrible mistake and we are paying (and will pay) for it in the future, but please, justifying it is insane. I doubt that there is a single manager in this world who would have paid 20m for him, let alone 27.5m.
 
Revan said:
Why experience in EPL is that important when we see countless examples of players coming from outside of England and shining immediately. Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Oscar, Cabaye, Modric to name a few are players who were excellent the moment they came here. But yeah, we need to go for a player who did good in a midtable team.

Fellaini is a 15m player level who should play in a midtable team. That is his level, and it won't change. He is a very limited player, I dunno how someone can argue otherwise. We made a terrible mistake and we are paying (and will pay) for it in the future, but please, justifying it is insane. I doubt that there is a single manager in this world who would have paid 20m for him, let alone 27.5m.
Click to expand...

Have to agree.
 
In December 2012 he was rated 60 in the 'best footballer in the world' bit of the Guardian. Got to love the papers!
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
I knew the knives would be out after Cardiff, but they should be out for Evra, Cleverley and Evans.
Click to expand...
Two have proven their quality for us in the past and that tends to save you from criticism. People have little expectations from the third these days. Afroman is our big summer signing and the only one in ages in central midfield. It's only natural to discuss him more right now than the others.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.