I just realised how short we are for midfielders today, then remembered he's banned for this one.
Thank Christ for that.
Thank Christ for that.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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Fellaini was useful when we pressed Cardiff high up the pitch. They sent it back to the goalie-who then sent it long. Fellaini would then win the header and we got back possession a lot of the time.
Weird logic. He wasn't nearly as bad as Cleverley on Sunday, I'd actually argue that it was a decent overall performance in comparison to most of our team, certainly he's a better option than basically everything else we have available to us for the game. It'll probably be Cleverley and Giggs, for feck sake.
I was referring to this post from you, especially the bit where you say we didn't have control of the game and it was solely down to our 28 million man being completely useless.
Now, that says to me that you and I were in fact watching two completely different games. If you think Fellaini was the reason why we lost the game, or control of the game then you need go take of the blinkers. So no I don't think we ever had complete control of the game, nor did I blame an individual player for it.
You're not very good with jokes are you.
Completely disagree. He just looks a poor footballer. Nothing passes, little movement, slow to everything, poor technically, I'm not sure how he's looking okay to you. I hope he improves with time.
I can agree on that this wasn´t a star in the making..
But I never said so I said i thought he was our best or second best player on the day, most of united´s players on the day were dreadful..
But all in all I thought he did all right, kept it simple and didn´t loose possession.. Nothing to complain about there!
How we handle being a goal up makes me more worried than Fellaini to be frank... Southampton,Cardiff ect ect.. There is a trend here that Moyes needs to get rid of asap!
Like I said above he didn´t do anything wrong and was even if the team was appalingly poor our best player!
Some here just don´t want to see it or hear it but when he´s playing ok there is no need for this Fellaini bashing, he get´s enough of that when he derseves it and rightly so!
I'd say it's more so that you're a bit shit with eSarcasm
I agree. It annoys me enormously. Though in defense of Moyes, this has been going on for longer than just this season though. This was already the case under Fergie the last few seasons.
It's a mental thing, not only on our side, but also with the opponent. The fear factor just isn't there anymore. Smaller teams are having a go at us more often the last few years, compared to the 2007-2010 years or even before that. And it will only change by winning games I'm afraid. I was hoping winning the title last year would have improved this, but the new manager and especially the bad start made us look very vulnerable again.
Yeah fair enough, but my compilation wouldn't really show you how he made Cleverley poor. Of course Fellaini had a negative influence on our play. Fellaini, however, isn't the reason for Cleverley's poor performance. Cleverley has played like this with Carrick too. It's more a metal thing than anything else.
Look at our points tally of last season. I'm not suggesting we played wonderful football but does a team that is poor when in the lead get 89 points?
Where do you expect us to control the game from? Even when we have played other combinations of midfielders, we at least had some semblance of control for a short duration, even when we played just Anderson & Cleverley.
When the clubs plays 28 million for midfielder knowing that we need someone there, we would expect that the player would at least play some kind of role in being able to control a match against a team which has just been promoted.
Lets us look at this way: Do you think the forwards are to blame for the lack of control? Or maybe Valencia or Janujaz? Or maybe Ferdinand and Evans? No? Maybe Smalling and Evra? Or was it De Gea?
Yes, there have been plenty of games where we haven't had much control, but not to be in control for any duration of time against a just-promoted team, placed in the bottom-half of the table, shouldn't the midfielder who has been brought in play that role do something about it. If he hasn't, if the results haven't been achieved, who do you think the fingers are going to be pointed at?
I know Cleverley can play better. I don't think Felliani can.
If you go back in time, you would see that if Djemba-Djemba came to the club now instead of when we were used to Scholes, Keane, Veron in midfield, he would be defended the same way as Felliani now.
I'm not saying it was as bad last year, just that many of the problems we have this year were already (partly) there before Moyes.
And I think we all know that the point tally last season was a bit flattered.
People seem to forget that we were very lucky to escape with a win in several games last season. The kind of luck we're not having at the moment. Much more than last season, we're getting the results we deserve based on the play.
And Van Persie saved us in a lot of games as well last season. The constant niggling injuries he has now don't help of course.
As poor as he has been. As uninspiring a signing he was, we need to give him time to adapt to life at United. Players need time, of course his price tag make that time shorter but judging him as a whole while most players have been poor is very harsh in my opinion. I am not a fan of the his signing but I don't agree with the over the top reactions to his time at the club so far.
Get behind the guy and lets see how he has done at the end of the season.
Get behind the guy and lets see how he has done at the end of the season.
Defence, but thats a personal choice. If you believe Jamie Redknapp then midfield is the most important area on the pitch and its where games are lost and won. Our midfield is shit and has been for the last six years or so, what does that tell you.
Games game be lost or won all over the pitch, not just midfield.
Its not his fault that the club payed so much for him is it, so why are you judging him on it?
The whole team are to blame, if the forwards keep on missing chance after chance to give the team a comfortable lead, if the wingers don't track back to help the defence or fail to get past the first defender with their crosses, the defence give away needless free kicks to put the team under pressure or constantly kick the ball long and give the ball away, or maybe De Gea is dropping crosses and giving away silly goals which puts pressure on the rest of the team. Now do you see what I mean, or do you still have your blinkers on?
So you're willing to give Cleverly chance after chance after chance but only give Fellaini a few games, whys that?
Eh?
Obviously stats don't tell the whole story but as much as people may not rate Fellaini, we'd be even more fecked without him with Carrick and Jones out. He showed what he has to offer defensively, he won the ball against Cardiff more than both Jones and Carrick do on average and was dominant in the air. These are the kind of things that suggest to me he should be utilised deeper possibly in something like this (almost like Mourinho's 4-3-3 at Chelsea with Makelele, Thiago and Lampard).
--------------------Back 5------------------
---------------------------------------------
-------------------Fellaini--------------------
-----------Carrick---------------------------
--------------------Kagawa------------------
Valencia/Nani-------------------------Januzaj
--------------------------------------------
--------------------Rooney-----------------
especially since Van Persie seems to be struggling with little injuries this year. At the risk of becoming a broken record, it's a re-write of history to claim that Fellaini is poor technically, that he's unproven in deeper positions or that he's just shit. When he was given the chance to play further back at Everton he did well, and performed exactly the role I'd like to see him in for United: keeping things simple and solid in front of the defence, winning the balls on the ground and in the air and allowing everyone else to play.
--------------------Back 5------------------
---------------------------------------------
-------------------Fellaini--------------------
-----------Carrick---------------------------
--------------------Kagawa------------------
Valencia/Nani-------------------------Januzaj
--------------------------------------------
--------------------Rooney-----------------
especially since Van Persie seems to be struggling with little injuries this year. At the risk of becoming a broken record, it's a re-write of history to claim that Fellaini is poor technically, that he's unproven in deeper positions or that he's just shit. When he was given the chance to play further back at Everton he did well, and performed exactly the role I'd like to see him in for United: keeping things simple and solid in front of the defence, winning the balls on the ground and in the air and allowing everyone else to play.
Teams don't hold on to leads consistently to win games through luck. That's an ability to see games out. It's not luck that's deserting us right now rather the ability to push on when in the lead or chase games successfully, which we were able to do last season.
I'd say it's more so that you're a bit shit with eSarcasm
You forgot the tags: [sarcasm][/sarcasm].
It was just normal text.
I won't say six years, there have been times when our midfield has done well. Maybe not very long periods of time but much better in any single match than on Sunday. Even when we lost 6-1, there was a period of time when we looked to be in control. Or even when Barca beat us, there were some points when we could claim, that wasn't all bad. I know we needn't have a super midfield as long as it does a reasonable job with the other part of the team compensating for it. Fergie in his last years worked without one but he still had someone who could pass (Carrick)/ someone who could press (Fletcher). In this match, our midfield did nothing.
Not his fault, but his contribution is going to be judged on that at least for some period of time. This especially the case since he was bought from within the league and he has spent a few years playing the same teams. So unless you are telling me that our defenders, strikers, wingers are worse than Everton's then, his contribution has to be judged on that basis.
However in this match, how many of the things you mentioned happen? Welbeck missed a chance as did Rooney. Januzaj didn't help Evra out as much as he should have. We didn't deal well with balls into the box from set-peices. We did try some long balls for no reason at times (that I put down to having Felliani in the team). Smalling didn't attack well but he did his job defensively apart from the error towards the end.
I don't care about the result. I just enjoy watching us play (or rather I am addicted to it). I don't feel the need for us to win every match, as long as we are able to do the basics right and I see the effort.
I have seen both play for a while now. I think Cleverley while not being the player we hoped he could become, he can help us play better football. I don't see that happening with Fellaini.
I don't want us to play like Barcelona or Bayern or even like United of the 90s or the noughties. I just want us to be able to control matches, pass the ball well and not cede control to a team who are not playing all that well themselves. With that in mind I don't think Felliani is the right fit.
I think Djemba-Djemba had shown more during his start at United. I am saying I think he is a better midfielder. Would you defend Djemba-Djemba the same way you are now defending Felliani? I wouldn't. Not because I hate him( I love all our players (maybe Tevez is an exception) and want them to do well.) I don't think it is good for the way we play. I don't mind Felliani being at the club as long as he isn't a hinderance to the way we play.
Still think Fellaini would look a lot better in a midfield three, with better midfielders around him. Very few players in world football can play in a midfield two at the required level a club like us demands. Even Carrick struggles at times, and he's excellent positionally, intelligent, and a very good passer.
You're basing you're whole case on one match. A match in which Fellaini actually played ok. A match where Cleverly was clearly the worst player on the pitch.
You're hatred for a Fellaini is blinkering everything else about the team, so much so that your last post is just nonsense.
It isn't just based on the last match. What part of I have watched him for years don't you get?
It is easy to dismiss things as nonsense if you don't have a proper response. I don't think anything I have said is actually wrong given my perspective.
So yeah if you want to label it as non-sense then every post which doesn't cater to your views could be labeled so. And by the same standard even your post could be labeled the same.
Anyways, a fundamental difference seems to be that you think a collection of stats show that a player has done alright, whereas I don't see it that way.
I totally agree, and in fact his stats from the last game are actually pretty decent for a DM - several tackles, interceptions and clearances - that is exactly what he is there to do. Seems some are expecting a totally different type of player, which is why they will always be disappointed.
I would like to see us try a midfield 3 as well - however I think that Carrick should be the deepest with Fellaini a bit more advanced.
When have I mentioned stats? Please point this out to me as I'm struggling to find it.
I'll base my opinion of him in a United shirt nothing else. You on the other hand are judging him on his price tag, his Everton days the fact that you didn't want him is clouding your judgement.
Your posts about him are nothing short off laughable "he was solely to blame for us not controlling the game" for example is just priceless.
Those aren't actually too bad stats, he was more involved than people think. 8 aerial duels won and people thought he should win more?
You don't have a proper response. Laugh all you want.
Keep making up strawmen and laugh at them
When have I not gave a proper response?
Again answer my question, when have I mentioned stats?
We rarely brought off forwards and replaced them with defenders as happened at home to Southampton. If our habit of sitting on leads is going to change then Moyes will have to break the habit of a lifetime. His Everton team were just the same.
i didn't say you mentioned stats. i got things mixed up there.
there is no point our arguing this further. was good talking to you, and i want end it on a civil note knowing that maybe someone might actually read what i have vented.
i just want to know one thing as to why you think he will do well for the team
Fellaini has looked decent as the destroyer in a 3 man midfield.....I just hope I never see him in a midfield 2 again
Yeah, he's not very good in a midfield two. But in that case the question is: is it worth putting Rooney or Van Persie on the bench or on the flanks for the sake of adding Marouane Fellaini to our midfield? I don't think so.
I'm all for playing a three-man midfield more often. But we should not do that for the sole purpose of putting one more average central midfielder on the pitch because frankly, that's pointless. Let's forget about the "can he play in a midfield two?" dilemma and sign some real quality for a midfield three. However, Fellaini is not the sort of player who should be the catalyst of such a switch... he's just not worth it.
I still don't see why we actually signed him. Or, to be more precise, what is it that Moyes expects of him? I still think that of all the midfielders at this club, he's the WORST partner for our only quality CM because of his lack of mobility. It's an utterly bizarre signing.
If he can't play in a midfield 2 what was the fecking point of buying him then.
It's a way to deal with a bad midfield - putting 3 in the middle, regardless of who's there.
I don't, what I do know is that I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself at the club. I'm not going to judge him after he's played less than 10 games in a role that's he's not firmiliar with.
According to some on here he's been awful every time he's played when in truth he hasn't. It seems like he is being used as the new "scapegoat" or a stick to beat David Moyes with, it's pathetic.
I'm not saying he's been brilliant every time he's played, he hasn't, however he hasn't been that bad, anybody that says he has been to me has a hidden agenda or just doesn't want to see any good that he brings to the team.
You are correct, I didn't quote any stats and that's why I questioned you on it, they don't really tell the true story of a player, I watch the game that's how I judge a player, I don't judge him on his price tag, where he's come from, only what's he can offer the team, so far I haven't been overly impressed, however I can see what he will bring once he's settled, he's never going to be Messi but we need players to do the ugly side of football and he will be one off the best at that by the end of the season if given the backing.
Currently I'd rather have him in our squad than not, a lot of our fans don't like him as he was our only transfer signing. That and his name isn't Fabregas or Thiago.
If he's not familiar with playing in central midfield then why exactly have we bought him?
No matter how many games that he's played for us, 10 or 110, we can only judge him on those games .... and he's been shit. He's won very few tackles, hasn't been all that in the air, given away foul after foul after fecking foul and generally looks out of his depth.
As far as us being willing to give him a chance ..... we've no choice, we don't pick the team.
As far as us being willing to give him a chance ..... we've no choice, we don't pick the team.
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